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TL_Warlord_Roff

Kitakaze, Haregumu.. theory craft and preplanning

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They are on the horizon and very very close.

Things noticed my Supertesters.

Tier IX "KITAKAZE"  (Northern Wind...may be very aptly named!)   Yep it's a super Akizuki all right... 300 more HP (I was expected a little bit more than a mear 300 HP!  *wags finger*)

                   Guns are the same.   Agility is the same (poor!)  speed is the same. Guns are the same. 2nd hull replaces the 3x25mm mounts with licence build twin 40mm Bofors.. and they are and improvement. a very very tiny 20 points of DPS in the mid AA zone improvement.. which didn't exist before.  Still AA is insufficient to make a carrier player not go after you, or cause them and real level of punishment when they do.

1 extra torpedo tubes.. nic.. significantly lengthened reload time.  Not nice. You may be able to put more torps in the water at a time, but I suspect that over time it's going to be the same number of torps, just launched to a different tempo.

The big plus here is you get access to the 12 K torps and they do have a bigger warhead.  You also get access to the 8 k torps... Not my cup of green tea but feel free to knock yerself out, good luck and all that.

Most important of all however is 1 additional upgrade slot.

Your going to have two real choices here.  One is the torpedo reload module.. +50% chance of module damage to torpedos and trims a huge percentage off the reload time.  The other real option however is the gun module that both improves rate of fire (used with BFT will make for a very noticeable increase in dakka output!) that also pushes the gun range out past 17k when used in conjunction with AFT.   If your good with guns and can deal with the floaty nature you might just want to go with this one.  Past 15k the 100mm shells start dropping at better than 45 degrees and will not ricochet off the decks, and due to the extended range the shells speed up in flight as they come.. a little gravity assist (yes, it is modeled!) so the shell pen goes up to right around I think I recall seeing 62mm pen maximum possible range.  What this mean? How about cit hits on cruiser and nasty under the armor deck pen hits on BB's.  But if you don't trust your long range gunnery go for the torp reload instead, and be sure to take the complementary commander skill to boost it some more. (do bear in mind that with skills and module your pop'n round every 2.4 seconds per gun. a 30-40% hit rate will work JUST fine! And you can get a 30-40% hit rate with a little practice with these guns easy!  The DAKKA is REAL!)

Concealment is no better on this boat the Akizuki and I'm personally not even going to bother speccing for it on mine.  Lots of RADAR boats is here to stay.  The initial burst has all but faded (took way less time then I thought it would) but life is still much more difficult for DD's.  As a 33 knot boat like the Aki your not running away even with a speed flag, and even with engine boost.   You might get away but don't be placing bets, because the odds are not in your favor.    Your not going to realistic dodge everything tossed at you either.  Like Aki putting some attention toward enhancing your ability to function with damage is worthwhile.  Tier 9 so lets see 350 HP per tier and AH! An extra 3150 HP.. yea, I can go with that and it's only a 3 point skill!  DId they thin the plating on DD's yet?  If they did you can risk dropping IFHE as only the Khab has the plating to go mano a mano with you.  But you still might want the IFHE to deal with cruiser and BB upperworks that have not gotten thinned.  On the other hand no IFHE will improve fire chance by 1% per round that hits and those fires can happen even if the shells cause zero damage. Like AKi you actually have a great many options.. more gun range and faster guns, better torp reload, a hybrid of both which also works quite well.   Concealment/No Concealment?  That's a little more iffy.  AlLso take RPF!  Don't argue, do it.  RPF is your friend.  RPF will keep you alive Longer.  RPF will allow you to hunt the unseen!  Your slow, your not nimble you need to know when something is close and if you don't see it and what you can see can't see you.. it's a DD and he's hunting you!

If you go no concealment your days of taking caps solo are over.  You've turned into a light cruiser and a support ship all the way.  Going partial or full concealment gives you a few more options especially if you want to focus on being more of a hunter killer and allows you to fulfill to more traditional DD roles... but your still slow as hell.  So you'll have to be a lot sneakier and a lot smarter then the other guys.

If you go partial then it's a toss up.. if you drop the concealment module then DO take the Target Acquisition module in its place.   you gain quite a bit from it but it is subtle.  On my current Aki build I do this.  Works good.  I get a surprising number of spots.  I loose some concealment but I spot them sooner.  it balances out with the trade off slightly more in my favor then against.   If you choose to keep the module and drop the concealment Expert off your commander your going to have a few more options in commander build especially if you decided to risk forgoing the IFHE.  Between the two of them thats 8 Commander skill points.   I might suggest manual AA as this will double your AA off your 100mm guns.  Seeing your likely to be running BFT and AFT anyway it something to consider as I just don't see them giving this ship an AA consumable..And if they do what am giving up for it?  Smoke, trb, engine boost?  I need all of those!  Though I suppose I could live without smoke if I had to.  I all ready no smoke on all y high tier DD's that can so I'm used to it.

Just bear in mind which ever way you choose to go with your build.. Max, Gun, Max Torps.  Enhanced AA with guns, enhanced AA with torps and everything in between your number one limiting factor is going to be your low top speed and horrid turn radius.  All tactics revolve around minimizing this rather big achilles heel.  Either never be seen other then when YOU allow yourself to be seen or be doing the distant gunner thing from 15-17 Km where even if they do see you getting hits is going to be difficult.... and if you pop a smoke hide to shoot from  pretty much impossible.  (<<points<< I'm going the distance thing myself.  It's working very consistently with the Aki for me, I see know reason NOT to go with a build that pushes the gun range into clear falling shot range!)

 

TIER X "HAREGUMO"

 

From the looks of it this ship may be more of a down grade from the tier 9.  The glaring difference in one more twin 100mm turret mount.  There's also I believe 2 more twin mounts of 40mm Bofors.  Torps exactly the same but with a worse torpedo reload for some reason.. same 6 tube launcher, same torpedo's. slower reload  Doesn't make a lot of sense so it's done for balance.  The ship is faster at 35.5 (so far) but the turn radius.. the supertesters tell us that Harugumo's looks a a Conqueror's turn radius and gets green with envy as is can turn inside of a Haru!   It may be better then a Khab (i'd have to check) but the Khab has 50mm plating and is hugely faster!.   Khab still doesn't want to get into a close range gun fight with you (that's anything under 10K..the 100 mm will pen a Khab as long as impact is under 45 degrees.  Hope you saved a load of torps because he's charging you if he has any sense to keep that angle into ricochet land.. or he'll run off to 11 KM and thumb his nose at you from a distance where you cannot pen his sides.  Either way the khab has the speed to choose the distance.  It'll be a death ground fight to the finish because Like an Aki you don't have the speed to run.

From what I've seen from the CC vids on youtube is this ship is just too clumsy.  It's like the Jar Jar Binks of warships... Amazingly potent but going to be very reliant on the force.. and a whole lotta luck and team work!   She's not totally bad, but she is clearly the worst of the tier X DD's.   Her guns are not to be ignored and only a fool would..Never ever count on the opposing team to be fools.. Again it's one of them really poor odds bets.  Now on the other hand she practically tailor made for clan wars and ranked battle!  Those two formats team oriented with clan wars being a totally team oriented fight.  When you have tight teamwork and communication, and a team that is aware of just how effective this ship can be given the right situation everything changes.  I feel the one thing that WG tried hard to do here was make a team work ships..she has her strengths but where she shines is when the ship can effectivly coordinate with others.

Radar Cruiser behind island causing grief to the team other DD's. Haru slides in to 16 K and starts heaving the dakka right over the top of said island and into and through the deck of said cruiser..  Said cruiser will either move, or it will quickly die there.  If I can do this with the 15Km with AFT guns on an AKi it should be significantly easier to do with the extra 2 Km and change that Haru can manage.  And it keep the cruisers and battleships shooting at what they can hit and not having to worry about what they cannot hit. Cuz Hara.. "I Got This" is on the job.  Oh and seeing your likely back with the BB's anyway..  Do you really wanna be the Gearing driver that has one of these pop up in front of you when you don't expect it?  10x10mm guns firing every 2.4 seconds or better if you go the full gun mojo build with adrenaline rush...OOOF!   I dream about the moment it happens!   I can turn Gearings into confetti with an Aki right now.   (it does take a little luck and me getting shots off on target first!  Still not something another DD really wants to deal with!)

Clan leaders a little chutzpah please!  You may want to groom some Harugumo drivers as they bring a change to the table that is ohhhhhhhhhhh so good.

 

Anyway..  Final thoughts.

Harugumo needs some love.  No issues I see with her in a comp play due to team work synergy but random battle is a another beast entirely and not going to be real nice to her at all.  Turn radius has just got to shrink and the torp reload is a little on the lengthy side (over 180 seconds!).  The Kitakaze is an improvement over the Akizuki and should be faster.  And she could use more speed as this was the entire point of the Super Akizuki.  At least get the ship historically right in expected performance!  *sigh*

 

Edited by TL_Warlord_Roff
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I agree, torps shouldn't have lower DPM going up tiers, and the entire reason kitakaze was designed was to improve the glaring flaw the IJN saw with akizuki. Her low top speed.

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"At least get the ship historically right in expected performance!  *sigh* "

 

Yeah... #cough# long lance detection range #cough#

but oh look! Pure fantasy and physics defying khab attributes! Those are historically accurate right komrade?

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Honestly, to make the Kitakaze and Harugumo good, all the need to do is raise Kitakaze's speed to 35 kts and lower Harugumo's turning circle to around 760-780m (from current 830). Kitakaze being the same speed as Akizuki is as ridiculous as the Harugumo being out-turned by a freaking RN Conqueror.

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Been watching the vids from the CC's on these ships as the show up on you tube.  Flambass's one today really does show off it's gun Dakka to the nth degree.  I do hope something is done about the Kita's slow speed and the Haru's atrocious turn radius but I'm not going to hold my breath and that's because in the hands of a competent smart player these ships are both pretty deadly as they are.   So all I can say is it would be nice, and I hope the WG devs see and understand why they should do so.

I personally want to see the tweaks happen because everyone and their cousin will suddenly start driving them and less the 5-10% of the player that get these ships will stick with em because they'll for everyone else, they suck!  Once the amatures give it up for a bad job the field will be cleared to make these ships shine.   ANyone any good with an AKi or Harekaze isn't the least bit bothered with even being the only tier VIII in a match and even sometimes the only DD because the ships themselves are solid.. not perfect but ya know, "Gut boats!"

"THAT SHIPS GARBAGE.  IT SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM THE GAME (especially when it's in the hands of someone that knows how to use it)"

 The rest of us can then get back to the dakka! Yep, let em improve 'em.  Then everyone tries them and most of em get consistently blown into the afterlife because they don't understand the ship inherent limitations, but the rest of us will do just well 'nuff that they can then nerf it an itty bitty wee bit, and they'll all be happy..... more or less... Until they run into me, or you, or that guy over there who all cut our teeth on working a 51% or better WR in the Akizuki and Harekaze 4-10. *looks up innocently at the ceiling*

  I may have to put in the rainbow tracers mod just for the giggles BTW.   Flambass show a moment of non stop fire..with Adrenaline rush he got the refire down to 2 seconds and the shells just never stop flying  Boom boom boom boom boom with no breaks like the hammer of doom beating on the anvil of hell.  WIth all the expected results down range.

As he noted, it IS going to be fun.  But even he cannot say if the ship is good or bad.  Because that's going to absolutely depend on the person driving it no matter how they set up the ship and commander.

I think I may want to be very careful about how I set my ship up.. it's wouldn't take to much effort to get a bit of overperformance out of her and trigger an unwanted and unneeded nerf!  When ever they do nerf a ship because the best players do too well, the average and less players suffer badly and that's not a good thing for a game.  I'd really hate to be a contributor to the cause of the nerfage!  EEK!

 

Warlord sends

 

Edited by TL_Warlord_Roff

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On 7/4/2018 at 12:25 AM, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

10x10mm guns firing every 2.4 seconds

Assume you meant 10x100mm-(small edit). They only seem like 10mm guns when facing a Yamato (especially one with that legendary upgrade).

Not sure the target acquisition module helps the Akizuki line much.

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It does help, your still a DD and your going to need to do a lot of your own spotting.  It'll help you with other DD's by your seeing torps significantly further out, and it'll help ensure you spot some of the more sneaky cruiser before they spot you!  The bump to assured target acquisition is also rather nice when you get those close range no radar moments. A  DD in smoke you will see 3Km, not 2.  If your currently under concealment that means you see them before they see you. And works defensively also when your in smoke because the assured detection bump works for seeing out of smoke so you get guns/torps on them first, or maybe just sneak away....*snap!*

  Same same cruisers in smoke... it can be a warning tool, a sensor.. multi use... even for sneaking in to a sure kill assassination range position. (situation permitting!)   it has a sneaky versatility I've come to appreciate with both defensive and offensive benefits.      I give up 10% of my concealment for a 20% increase in the range targets get detected AND locked up for directing fire.  I consider a net win to take it.  It's totally ok if your go "wha? No No oh hell no!".   Kinda like RPF in that you gotta learn how to use it.   What I've lost in concealment can be countered/offset/made up for by good tactics and positioning.  It is however, not simple.. well if you wanted simple you shouldn't be driving DD's!

Warlord sends

 

Driving DD's.. it's a love/hate relationship...ya gotta be just a wee bit of a fearless masochist. 

 

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Both Kita and Haru are going to play much like Akizuki.

Meaning they are better at escorting a DD than actually being lead.  I might be different than most, I am most interested in trying a max torp reload on them since the guns  reload is so short you dont get much out of buffing them.  Not so with the torp reload mods and skills.  I kind of like TTM3 on Grozovoy as well, so I'm a little sick that way anyways.

 

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16 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

Both Kita and Haru are going to play much like Akizuki.

Meaning they are better at escorting a DD than actually being lead.  I might be different than most, I am most interested in trying a max torp reload on them since the guns  reload is so short you dont get much out of buffing them.  Not so with the torp reload mods and skills.  I kind of like TTM3 on Grozovoy as well, so I'm a little sick that way anyways.

 

I hear ya.  I'm most likely going to finalize on gun range, and getting the torp reload down to as close to 2 min as I can manage from the stock 3 min ntself.  It may be a tough decision.. do I take the module adding 20% to my gun range or do I drop 15% on my torp reload time.?  I honestly don't know what I'll do yet until I have the ships in front of me.  I Know what I want to do... An7d the gods of naval warfare say  "You can want!",  Pretty sure torp reloads can be pulled down below 2 min (one commander skill, two upgrade modules).  Given a choice give up BFT and ROF buff first before AFT.  Your really going to want the extra main gun range,  Not so much for dealing with DD (dd's that run that you can kill are a special case) as for shooting up capital ships (Anything larger then you!)

 

I recently changed up the way I'd been trying to drive Akizuki.. The proliferation of radar forced it on me..But I really don't push up front with out very careful consideration.  What I find myself doing a great deal is harassing radar cruiser hiding behind island.  Its very simple n the Aki and any 100mm gun ship.. If they shoot out, you can shoot in as long as your at least 13k away from them.

 

Going to need penetration tables so we all now our best fighting ranges!

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AHHA!  Found it  https://mustanghx.github.io/ship_ap_calculator/ (pen calculator..!) be sure to set for the guns.. use the Akizuki guna as they are identical.

The numbers will be a surprise.  And it tells me why my Akizuki with AFT performs so much better than I expected.  

Salient points.

FALLING SHOT:Long Range Gunnery

At 15 Km your AP shells are fully transitioned to falling shot  with a pen of 50MM on the nose.  You can still get falling shot down to as low as 12.3 Km but pen is only (1) 33.57mm so you'll only be able to pick on cruisers and DD's with deck pens until your shooting at targets in the 15k plus range.  At the max possible range your falling shot pen will be somewhere around 75mm, but from 13-5 to 15K expect to loose most of your shells to auto bounce and shatters.  Good thing this boats toss so many shells eh?  

NON FALLING SHOT: Why we carry IFHE!

  At 12.3 Km due to auto bounce angle you WILL NOT pen anything if you hit a ships side.  At 10 Km you pen if the shell doesn't skip of shatter is still good at 25mm and change but always note your auto bounce angle on there shells  start at 45% and a  guaranteed bounce at 60%  So any angling by the target ship under 12.5 Km and your not going to do much of anything with your AP.  And that's why we use IFHE.. for those angled targets!  On the other hand there is a strong argument to save the 4 commander skill points here and just adjust aim and ammo types.    Are you good nuff?  If the answer is "yes" then your reward is 4 commander skill points that are very useable elsewhere!

As long as you can be adept at switching back and forth between ammo types you can do without IFHE.. but it is safer for the average player to carry it.  Some how I don't think the posters on this thread are average IJN DD player anymore.. they think to much.. dead giveaway of the above average!

The long flight times at range are going to mighty irritating, but then factor in your rate of fire.. and that's all it'll ever be is mildly irritating.. and greatly irritating nd distracting to whomever your shooting at down range..  Pity the poor cruiser taking penetrating deck hits at 15.5Km running away from you and noting 6 to 10 more salvo's of shells already in the air heading their way.  The target suppression effect is REAL.

Gun performance on these ships is critical, and they're much better long range gun boats then they get credit for.  Harugumo with her scary bad turn radius will have to ride the advantage her guns give her.  Kitakaze will just do everything the Akizuki does now, only doing some things just a wee bit better.  Seeing a good Aki player can carry a tier X fight now, I'm not concerned about how good or bad Kitakaze is considered.  She'll be fine.  She is no worse that Akizuki at anything, and better in  a couple small critically useful area's.

Haragumo is going to be the red headed step child though because of her poor agility.  Like Shimakaze, strong but with some glaring weaknesses.  For Shimmy it's that her torps are not as good as they should be.  Plicks me off that some players do as well with the 'wall of skill" torp shot as they do.. I go work'n it it expending my torps carefully.. do of lot of zoning, CC'ing the other tema.. spots galore.. maybe even a touch of pew pew....yep, bottom of the score board!  I hate the Shimakaze and no longer have one!  SO hoping that Harugumo will fill that tier X slot so I have something with more utility and  usable for ranked and clan battles.

Sorry about the screen shot, that "bittena" my Aion toon..SPiritmaster.. she brings the fear spells and CC

 

image.png

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They buffed the he on ijn gunboats, and the speed on the kitakaze,  tho they nerfed the rudder and the concealment on akizuki 

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7 hours ago, Submarine_M1 said:

They buffed the he on ijn gunboats, and the speed on the kitakaze,  tho they nerfed the rudder and the concealment on akizuki 

It has the effect you can actually run AA builds and still do reliable damage, or can go full HE troll mode and lol pen just about anythings hull and SS.  I still think they are going to roll the pen buff back a bit.

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4 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

It has the effect you can actually run AA builds and still do reliable damage, or can go full HE troll mode and lol pen just about anythings hull and SS.  I still think they are going to roll the pen buff back a bit.

maybe a 1/5 pen rule? to balance it out?

 

Spoiler

its currently being worked on a 1/4 pen rule, ik, but it seems that it may be a test, and see of its performance 

 

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not real guess here yet.. watching the facebook dev page also.  

Well likely know in the next two weeks..we may see them with the 7.7 patch, they may hold off on em until 7.8.  Still should be no more than a month..

Sure would'a like to have had 'em available for clan battles though.

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16 hours ago, Submarine_M1 said:

maybe a 1/5 pen rule? to balance it out?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

its currently being worked on a 1/4 pen rule, ik, but it seems that it may be a test, and see of its performance 

 

That is around where I think it will end up.  I dislike the IFHE skill anyways.  Your damage should not be so tied to a 4 point skill.

15 hours ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

not real guess here yet.. watching the facebook dev page also.  

Well likely know in the next two weeks..we may see them with the 7.7 patch, they may hold off on em until 7.8.  Still should be no more than a month..

Sure would'a like to have had 'em available for clan battles though.

They will be a horrible choice for CB.  They still lack the firepower a real CA has, lacks the HP, the heal, armor etc. 

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I only wish for capt skills (like the yamamoto and Halsey)  would work for clan wars.... Then MAYBE the harugumo could be a bit more useful.... Only randoms and ranked will work for that.... 

Edited by Submarine_M1

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2 hours ago, Submarine_M1 said:

I only wish for capt skills (like the yamamoto and Halsey)  would work for clan wars.... Then MAYBE the harugumo could be a bit more useful.... Only randoms and ranked will work for that.... 

Even then it wouldnt.

No armor, poor speed, BB turning radius, I could go on.  She's strong escorting friendly DDs or farming from range, but thats not roles a DD needs to fill in CB.

Harugumo.  Too fat for a CB DD not fat enough for a CB CA.

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Um not good for clan battles?  No good for ranked battles..  yea if you play this ship like any other DD your absolutely right, you'll just get sunk.. so you don't drive it like other DD's  the whole IJN gunboat line is unique.

How ever I have experience back from the first 2 seasons of Supremacy league that counters the belief.  

Point number 1.  It's the player.. the ship is just a tool.

     If the player stinks then they'll do poorly.. if the player is solid and knows their ship and whats ships can do that's a different matter entirely.  I was told by experts that IJN DD's were no good at all for SL play (very much like clan battle only with 9 ships).  Well, there wasn't any way I was going to suddenly pop up with a tier 8 US DD (my best at the time was the tier V) but I had Kagero, and I had Harekaze.

And just to complicate matter.. I ran them no smoke..  Yea Torpedo reload booster was considered a gimmick, and that you gave up to much (the smoke) to have it..  Boy oh boy are people singing a different toon these days!  I also run RPF.. another "useless" commander skill.

By seasons end of the last season they had tier 8 play my team finished the season 8-4.  Mostly because of my "useless" tier 8 IJN DD running no smoke.   Yea with an experience like that under the belt no one is going to be able to tell me that Haregumo "Positively Will Not Work" for comp play.  Yea right.  In fact if anything it should be rock solid because it is a "Team Play" ship. I will give you that it may or may not do well in comp play but I'm real leary of any prediction because it's the player that makes the ship work.   I will be finding out.  Discovering what these two ships can really do is going to be FUN!  And frankly they almost cant help but to perform better then the shimmy has for me in the same situations.  And yes other DD's have advantages..but they still do not want to get caught in the guns sights of any of the IJN gunboats because they will tear them up.  And  me, I just happen to be a really good shot and tend to put 60%  to 70%or better of all shells fired from the 100mm gun on target... and in the aki, that can be all the way out to 15 Km and a gawd awefull 14 second flight time on the shells.  Good Gunnery counts for a very very great deal.  Everything else is position, position, position.     I am looking forward to seeing what these ships can do in comp play, but counting them out is very foolish before we've seen em in action.

 

I will make the Harugumo work for competitive play.  I did it for Harekaze, Akizuki, and Kagero.  I can do it with Harugumo.  I intend to start a fad!  But like all higher tier IJN DD's the skill requirements are seriously high if your going to do well in them.  The skill I got.. well, most days when I'm not just fooling around.

(Yea I'm one of THOSE folks.. honestly stats are important but they don't tell the whole story. I assume my w/l will looked up here.. be aware that a year ago it was in the 40% range.. am at 49-50%.  I've had to make up for about a  500 game deficit in the last year.  That's a lot of lost battles made up, and more to go.  I'm not one of those folks that sat down to play and was instantly good.. I had to work for it.  and along the way I've learned to take nothing for granted.   Competition play was a fantastic teacher!)  

I consider it a challenge.. I like challenges.. especially ones I can beat!  *grins* 

 

 

 

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In high level competitive play, DDs aren't there to shoot or do damage. They are there to spot, cap, and deny areas with torps. Take a look at this recent CB from Flambass in a radar Yueyang:

 

Harugumo is objectively bad at everything you need it to do in a high level clan battle. Flambass also has a Harugumo test ship in port and he thinks it's great fun, but I'm sure he'd also agree it would be terrible in clan battles. There are just better choices. Can you win a game in Harugumo? I'm sure. Would it have not been easier in Yueyang or Gearing? Nope.

 

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6 hours ago, tenfingerstentoes said:

In high level competitive play, DDs aren't there to shoot or do damage. They are there to spot, cap, and deny areas with torps. Take a look at this recent CB from Flambass in a radar Yueyang:

 

Harugumo is objectively bad at everything you need it to do in a high level clan battle. Flambass also has a Harugumo test ship in port and he thinks it's great fun, but I'm sure he'd also agree it would be terrible in clan battles. There are just better choices. Can you win a game in Harugumo? I'm sure. Would it have not been easier in Yueyang or Gearing? Nope.

 

What he said.

As a damage dealer Harugumo lack the armor, the HP, the ability to repair to sustain itself.  Combined with the fact nearly every CA is going to evade shots better than her, its just no contest.  She is dependant on smoke or concealment to do damage, where a competing CA like a Zao can play in the open, and still have the same torp pressure.

Can you run her?  Yep.

Can you be successful?  Yeah if your team can make up for her spotting and capping deficiencies some how.  That means you are going to likely need to run a second DD to do those functions.  IMO the bang for the buck isnt there.  I could run her Harugumo with a 19 point captain on day one.  I have no intention of even testing her as she falls in an odd category where she cant really act like a DD, but still isnt a CA, much like Khaba.

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1 hour ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

IMO the bang for the buck isnt there.  I could run her Harugumo with a 19 point captain on day one.  I have no intention of even testing her as she falls in an odd category where she cant really act like a DD, but still isnt a CA, much like Khaba.

^ This.  

I have well over 500 battles and 1M ship XP on my Aki and 700K free XP for jumping to the Harugumo.  The initial specs on the Haru are lousy, so I was giving it second thoughts... and now with the proposed nerfs to the Akizuki, I think I'll just retire the line.  Not even sure the nerfed Aki will do well in ranked battles, if they were to repeat a T8 ranked season.   I'd rather grind up PA or RN than waste my time on these new ships.  

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...and regardless, Haragumo will replace Shimakaze completely given it at least has functional guns and uses the same, only, functional torpedo.

Yes, the stealth is not as good as shima but it is still better than most DDs out there... and any shima driver switching to this ship will enjoy the ability to gun down any DD that engages it. Something shima simply cannot hope to do.

Yes, the turn radius is not good... but then again, shima drivers getting spotted are usually dead before they complete the turn to go away (as most spottings end up being from head-on DD to DD ... where the closure rate means you get spotted anyway before you can turn and keep separation under stealth). Once again, at least this ship will have the guns to strike back as it turns and force the attacker to evade.

The torpedo reload booster allows this ship to throw almost as many torps as shima can. 

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On 7/14/2018 at 8:14 PM, Skyfaller said:

Yes, the stealth is not as good as shima but it is still better than most DDs out there... 

It's the worst amongst actual destroyers in its matchmaking range (Russian mini-cruisers don't count). It only ties with the Z-23 at 7.92 km.

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