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Rabin69

With all the doom and gloom about dds

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It still is possible to have great games in them. Just play smart and hope the bbs sail in straight lines...lol.

Seriously though, get to know the radar range of the ships and abuse the hell out of it. The DM in this game probably thought he had me twice with his radar, only for me to turn away while he had to try and dodge incoming torps with an island blocking his ability to turn.

 

 

shot-18.07.02_22.29.47-0221.jpg

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shot-18.07.02_22.29.35-0480.jpg

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Yes, but a lot of where the griping is coming from is IJN in particular. Take that Fletcher vs my Yugumo. Fletcher has just a bit more speed, and mobility. My torp options are 8 km, shorter than your Fletcher, but higher speed at 76 knots - but are spotted 1.8 km out. Or 10-12 km torps, that travel at 67 knots, only a single knot faster than Fletcher's 10.5 km torps, spotted 1.7 km out. All of that in a 2x4 setup. Fletcher's stock torps although only going at 55 knots, have a spotted range of 1.1 km - nearly equal to that of the dreaded manual drop of TB's off a CV. Albeit you can see the TB's coming in at 8 km unlike the DD. And despite having less torps, similar range, and a whole 1 knot speed advantage, Yugumo's are spotted at 1.7 with it's long range options where as Fletcher's are spotted at 1.4 km. Not to mention Fletcher gets more HP and better armour. Which makes the Des spotting me from B when I'm in A that bit more annoying. And why IJN players are, in general, kind of annoyed. Throw on better AA and the RoF on it's main guns, all Yugumo has on Fletcher is an extra gun barrel and about 1 km of detection range. And a lot of that applies as well to the other lines as well, better HP, guns, torps, etc than IJN. Only difference being some only match or have slightly less mobility (rudder shift and turning circle), and while Udaloi has better torps, can't quite stealth torp. But generally, most every line is faster, tougher, better guns, and as many, if not more torps, of similar or equal range and speed, but not potted anywhere near as soon. Many IJN players are trying to compensate with faster torps that have shorter range, either directly with the 8 km torps or with the torp accel, hoping there's less time to maneuver, which pulls them further into radar ranges, and with how stupid long Des's is, tends to be fatal. All the radar thanks to the line split is just making things more miserable. Other than the Russian tier 9's, the other DD lines can stay hidden at standoff ranges with their torps at the edge of radar ranges, with at times more torps that are more effective because they have less reaction time to them.

Despite being more of a BB/CV player, I still manage in my Yugumo, but it's that bit much rougher when everything has radar. That being said - I play mostly the two classes that despise DD's the most, and even I have to say every IJN DD that isn't Shimakaze has been over-nerfed which makes excessive radar just that much worse. That and well, trying to duck behind an iland in a BB to avoid IFHE spam is even proving difficult. And even then, the only reason I don't count Shima as over nerfed is the fact that it has the 3x5 launchers that just create a literal wall that's so many they can be tough to avoid through sheer numbers. 

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2 minutes ago, Darkmouse24 said:

Yea forcing to adapt to the new radar surge has made me a better DD player

I remember that game like it was only 5 minutes ago... oh wait.

You're right right though, dealing with a large amount of radar forces you to learn three key things: how to position for a quick exit, how to dodge when under fire, and how to predict where an enemy will be. All three are critical.

And then there's taking advantage of the situation, like when I had to dodge that friendly Shima salvo and eat yours instead. :Smile_teethhappy: wp though, was a fun game.

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14 hours ago, Rabin69 said:

It still is possible to have great games in them. Just play smart and hope the bbs sail in straight lines...lol.

Seriously though, get to know the radar range of the ships and abuse the hell out of it. The DM in this game probably thought he had me twice with his radar, only for me to turn away while he had to try and dodge incoming torps with an island blocking his ability to turn.

 

 

shot-18.07.02_22.29.47-0221.jpg

shot-18.07.02_22.29.21-0221.jpg

shot-18.07.02_22.29.35-0480.jpg

Sure, I have 12 torp hits games and humblebrag about it all the time too.  One game does not a pattern make.  The game is garbage for DDs right now more than not... excluding every DD game you sail "smartly" in of course.  No luck or chance involved one bit.

Edited by nhf
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34 minutes ago, nhf said:

Sure, I have 12 torp hits games and humblebrag about it all the time too.  One game does not a patter make.  The game is garbage for DDs right now more than not... excluding every DD game you sail "smartly" in of course. 

Even if we win and I do well, it just feels like I got lucky and was able, for at least a little bit, play my DD like I used to, which just makes me salty. Watching enemy DDs get radared just makes me shake my head. Especially, when they took a risk to do something, like torp a BB, and survived my teammates and I shooting him, only to have someone push a button and he's robbed of his successful play as we nonchalantly gun him down. The difference between him escaping and living to fight again, possibly against me, and him being sent back to port, was determined solely by the fact that a cruiser with radar happened to be within range.

It's just dumb.

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@Lensarhow is the new module going.

 

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Just now, CriMiNaL__ said:

@Lensarhow is the new module going.

 

Wasn't really usable. DDs wiggle around a lot, and when you're pulling any sort of maneuver, even the slightest turn, you can't fire your torps because the tubes turn too slow to keep up with the turn and therefor are never in position to fire, even if you spam the button. Cool concept, though. Just not practical.

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7 hours ago, WanderingGhost said:

Yes, but a lot of where the griping is coming from is IJN in particular. Take that Fletcher vs my Yugumo. Fletcher has just a bit more speed, and mobility. My torp options are 8 km, shorter than your Fletcher, but higher speed at 76 knots - but are spotted 1.8 km out. Or 10-12 km torps, that travel at 67 knots, only a single knot faster than Fletcher's 10.5 km torps, spotted 1.7 km out. All of that in a 2x4 setup. Fletcher's stock torps although only going at 55 knots, have a spotted range of 1.1 km - nearly equal to that of the dreaded manual drop of TB's off a CV. Albeit you can see the TB's coming in at 8 km unlike the DD. And despite having less torps, similar range, and a whole 1 knot speed advantage, Yugumo's are spotted at 1.7 with it's long range options where as Fletcher's are spotted at 1.4 km. Not to mention Fletcher gets more HP and better armour. Which makes the Des spotting me from B when I'm in A that bit more annoying. And why IJN players are, in general, kind of annoyed. Throw on better AA and the RoF on it's main guns, all Yugumo has on Fletcher is an extra gun barrel and about 1 km of detection range. And a lot of that applies as well to the other lines as well, better HP, guns, torps, etc than IJN. Only difference being some only match or have slightly less mobility (rudder shift and turning circle), and while Udaloi has better torps, can't quite stealth torp. But generally, most every line is faster, tougher, better guns, and as many, if not more torps, of similar or equal range and speed, but not potted anywhere near as soon. Many IJN players are trying to compensate with faster torps that have shorter range, either directly with the 8 km torps or with the torp accel, hoping there's less time to maneuver, which pulls them further into radar ranges, and with how stupid long Des's is, tends to be fatal. All the radar thanks to the line split is just making things more miserable. Other than the Russian tier 9's, the other DD lines can stay hidden at standoff ranges with their torps at the edge of radar ranges, with at times more torps that are more effective because they have less reaction time to them.

Despite being more of a BB/CV player, I still manage in my Yugumo, but it's that bit much rougher when everything has radar. That being said - I play mostly the two classes that despise DD's the most, and even I have to say every IJN DD that isn't Shimakaze has been over-nerfed which makes excessive radar just that much worse. That and well, trying to duck behind an iland in a BB to avoid IFHE spam is even proving difficult. And even then, the only reason I don't count Shima as over nerfed is the fact that it has the 3x5 launchers that just create a literal wall that's so many they can be tough to avoid through sheer numbers. 

Wow, long reply...thanks for sharing. You raised some very salient points, especially with respect to IJN dds.

In my experience IJN dds have tended to be (for me at least) the occasional feast with lots of famine, so maybe I go into games with my IJN dds with low expectations, so I am not as annoyed as the general population.

In a radar heavy meta, I don't attempt early caps with my IJN dds unless there are only two dds or less per team. The early risk is not worth it. I prefer to get close to the caps if possible and torp either the caps (if I suspect a dd is in one) or any approaches to the caps. I am running RPF on my T8 and higher captains though, so this helps with this strategy.

I have also been experimenting with TA on my Yugi/Asashio captain, to me it is not viable unless you are going to be torping ships that are advancing towards your position. The spotting range will still allow most players with average WASD skills to avoid most of your torps, but as you go higher up the possibility of getting a dev strike with torps is extremely low. I am usually content to get one hit that causes a flood.

Regarding the Shima wall of torps , while I am not the best player with this ship, rarely works because again spotting range means you will only get multiple strikes on only the true potatoes. What has been working for me is staggering my launches by 10 to 15 seconds. Many times I tend to send the second/third set either ahead or behind the aiming guide depending on where I expect them to turn.

 

 

 

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It is possible to adapt to something and still dislike it, just sayin'.

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5 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

It is possible to adapt to something and still dislike it, just sayin'.

Yep. That's where I am. I can play around radar, it's just not a whole lot of fun. Your plays take too long to set up to have them foiled at the click of a button. 

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The best option is to not play ijn dd's. I played 1 match in my shima this weekend. Then i logged off and played a game from 2012 which was more fun and engaging.

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9 hours ago, WanderingGhost said:
Spoiler

 

Yes, but a lot of where the griping is coming from is IJN in particular. Take that Fletcher vs my Yugumo. Fletcher has just a bit more speed, and mobility. My torp options are 8 km, shorter than your Fletcher, but higher speed at 76 knots - but are spotted 1.8 km out. Or 10-12 km torps, that travel at 67 knots, only a single knot faster than Fletcher's 10.5 km torps, spotted 1.7 km out. All of that in a 2x4 setup. Fletcher's stock torps although only going at 55 knots, have a spotted range of 1.1 km - nearly equal to that of the dreaded manual drop of TB's off a CV. Albeit you can see the TB's coming in at 8 km unlike the DD. And despite having less torps, similar range, and a whole 1 knot speed advantage, Yugumo's are spotted at 1.7 with it's long range options where as Fletcher's are spotted at 1.4 km. Not to mention Fletcher gets more HP and better armour. Which makes the Des spotting me from B when I'm in A that bit more annoying. And why IJN players are, in general, kind of annoyed. Throw on better AA and the RoF on it's main guns, all Yugumo has on Fletcher is an extra gun barrel and about 1 km of detection range. And a lot of that applies as well to the other lines as well, better HP, guns, torps, etc than IJN. Only difference being some only match or have slightly less mobility (rudder shift and turning circle), and while Udaloi has better torps, can't quite stealth torp. But generally, most every line is faster, tougher, better guns, and as many, if not more torps, of similar or equal range and speed, but not potted anywhere near as soon. Many IJN players are trying to compensate with faster torps that have shorter range, either directly with the 8 km torps or with the torp accel, hoping there's less time to maneuver, which pulls them further into radar ranges, and with how stupid long Des's is, tends to be fatal. All the radar thanks to the line split is just making things more miserable. Other than the Russian tier 9's, the other DD lines can stay hidden at standoff ranges with their torps at the edge of radar ranges, with at times more torps that are more effective because they have less reaction time to them.

Despite being more of a BB/CV player, I still manage in my Yugumo, but it's that bit much rougher when everything has radar. That being said - I play mostly the two classes that despise DD's the most, and even I have to say every IJN DD that isn't Shimakaze has been over-nerfed which makes excessive radar just that much worse. That and well, trying to duck behind an iland in a BB to avoid IFHE spam is even proving difficult. And even then, the only reason I don't count Shima as over nerfed is the fact that it has the 3x5 launchers that just create a literal wall that's so many they can be tough to avoid through sheer numbers. 

 

 

Asashio had done good during the weekend. Radar and USN Cruisers are honestly no big issue because my tactics are already built around not being directly at the front.

  • Support my allies
  • Be near a cap but not in the cap
  • Runaway when I see radar
  • Stay with my allies as much as I can
  • Runaway when I see anything other DD that is not IJN

In other words, MAKE FULL USE OF YOUR CONCEALMENT


Don't compare IJN DDs to other DDs because they will be hopelessly outgunned. You cannot play IJN like a Fletcher but you can play Fletcher like IJN. I am pretty sure I am being a hypocrite by saying don't compare IJN to others but Fletcher can be played like IJN but it is what it is. IJN DDs will always be weak and their concealment and torpedoes are all they got. You have to make proper use of that in order to make IJN DDs win.

It's a given that IJN Torpedoes are spotted earlier but honestly that does not effect me. If they will be spotted earlier, it means you have to change the way they spread so that something will hit than nothing. 

If you are fighting a different nations DD in a IJN DD, you already screwed up. Take your time, let the enemy get spotted or force them to get spotted.

My tactics are in my signature.

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46 minutes ago, Velled said:

The best option is to not play ijn dd's. I played 1 match in my shima this weekend. Then i logged off and played a game from 2012 which was more fun and engaging.

That's your own lost of you don't adapt. That is only on you and not the game.

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2 minutes ago, Vangm94 said:

That's your own lost of you don't adapt. That is only on you and not the game.

We won and i survived the match. I can adapt just fine. Doesnt make for fun gameplay however so i choose to do something entertaining.

Choosing to do something else isnt a loss for me at all. If there are any losers its WG. Less people in the queue and loss of revenue.

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7 minutes ago, Vangm94 said:

Asashio had done good during the weekend. Radar and USN Cruisers are honestly no big issue because my tactics are already built around not being directly at the front.

  • Support my allies
  • Be near a cap but not in the cap
  • Runaway when I see radar
  • Stay with my allies as much as I can
  • Runaway when I see anything other DD that is not IJN

In other words, MAKE FULL USE OF YOUR CONCEALMENT


Don't compare IJN DDs to other DDs because they will be hopelessly outgunned. You cannot play IJN like a Fletcher but you can play Fletcher like IJN. I am pretty sure I am being a hypocrite by saying don't compare IJN to others but Fletcher can be played like IJN but it is what it is. IJN DDs will always be weak and their concealment and torpedoes are all they got. You have to make proper use of that in order to make IJN DDs win.

It's a given that IJN Torpedoes are spotted earlier but honestly that does not effect me. If they will be spotted earlier, it means you have to change the way they spread so that something will hit than nothing. 

If you are fighting a different nations DD in a IJN DD, you already screwed up. Take your time, let the enemy get spotted or force them to get spotted.

My tactics are in my signature.

Yes that works fine. Its boring though.

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Just now, Velled said:

Yes that works fine. Its boring though.

That's up to you.

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1 hour ago, Vangm94 said:

That's your own lost of you don't adapt. That is only on you and not the game.

I adapted.

 

It's still not fun.

 

So why should I play a game that isn't fun?

 

Seriously where did this culture come from where it's okay for a form of entertainment to not be entertaining?

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1 minute ago, KiyoSenkan said:

I adapted.

 

It's still not fun.

 

So why should I play a game that isn't fun?

 

Seriously where did this culture come from where it's okay for a form of entertainment to not be entertaining?

I just call it life. You can either stop working and be homeless or you can suck it up and get a job that pays.

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Just now, Vangm94 said:

I just call it life. You can either stop working and be homeless or you can suck it up and get a job that pays.

I have a job.

 

Games aren't a job.

 

Games are entertainment.

Edited by KiyoSenkan

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Just now, KiyoSenkan said:

I have a job.

 

Games aren't a job.

 

Games are entertainment.

Entertainment is up to the player. Some people read, some people watch TV, some people play video games, some people play sports, some people cook, some people consider politics as entertainment. It is up to the person.

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2 minutes ago, Vangm94 said:

Entertainment is up to the player. Some people read, some people watch TV, some people play video games, some people play sports, some people cook, some people consider politics as entertainment. It is up to the person.

This has nothing to do with my statement, though you did detail games as a form of entertainment, so I can only conclude that you agree with me.

 

Which means you must understand how silly it is to treat games like a job, and thus games are not permitted to be unfun, frustrating, or boring.

 

Which is kind of my point. I adapted to the radar meta. But the adapted gameplay required is also no longer fun.

 

Which is also why I'd rather give my money to Azur Lane, Girls Frontline, or Fate/Grand Order than World of Warships. Because unlike World of Warships, those games are fun.

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5 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

This has nothing to do with my statement, though you did detail games as a form of entertainment, so I can only conclude that you agree with me.

 

Which means you must understand how silly it is to treat games like a job, and thus games are not permitted to be unfun, frustrating, or boring.

 

Which is kind of my point. I adapted to the radar meta. But the adapted gameplay required is also no longer fun.

 

Which is also why I'd rather give my money to Azur Lane, Girls Frontline, or Fate/Grand Order than World of Warships. Because unlike World of Warships, those games are fun.

I want to play Azur Lane and Girls Frontine... but something about makers scares me so I don't. I still enjoy Fate/Grand Order and I have enjoyed World of Warships since the beginning of Closed Beta in... late winter/early spring of 2015.

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1 hour ago, Velled said:

We won and i survived the match. I can adapt just fine. Doesnt make for fun gameplay however so i choose to do something entertaining.

Choosing to do something else isnt a loss for me at all. If there are any losers its WG. Less people in the queue and loss of revenue.

To be fair, if you only have fun playing one class/type in a game, you'll always sour on it quicker than those who have fun with all types.

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