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Plaatduutsch

Haida Shows a Unhealthy Trend in Game Design

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I am talking about the concealment power creeping and absolute advantage against certain ships / shiptypes. 

IMHO, there is nothing good about Haida except that she is Canadian and she is stealthy. 

She being so stealthy is not a healthy design for this game. 

Why do a gunbote need a better concealment than pure torpbotes?

With 5.7km stealth, she can outspot all pure torpedo botes at Tier 7.

The Shiratsuyu will be outspotted, outgunned, out maneuvered and slower. Is there any chance that a Shira captain can outplay the Haida? Probably very unlikely. 

The Akatsuki, on the other hand, will be out-spotted to the moon. 

The design of Haida is unhealthy as design of Asashio/Belfast because they all had absolute advantage over certain ship/ship class and eliminates the chance of outplay by skill. 

It is rumored that Cossack at tier 8 will have 5.1km concealment, which will be an issue for many tier 8 9 10 DDs as well. 

Will I consider Haida a good bote? Probably NOT, but her mere existence is a disturbance for this game, same as Asashio. 

Edited by Plaatduutsch
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4 minutes ago, Slumlord_Trump said:

can't hit anything but BBs with torps

Everyone seems to forget that Asashio can hit carriers too :Smile_sad:

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I don't see a gun boat with good concealment as an issue. They'll be revealed to the world when firing their guns anway, unless they use the concealment to get in closer to pop smoke. At which point, hydro or radar is popped to reveal them.

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I am no DD player by any definition. But from what I have seen in game My opinion is the Canadian Tribal Class DD is  going to be in my Port if I ever get the cash.

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13 minutes ago, Yunomicro said:

Everyone seems to forget that Asashio can hit carriers too :Smile_sad:

We'll worry about that when they add them to the game.

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I don't mind a gun boat being more stealthy than a torpedo boat.. BUT I do agree this is bad trend. I mean how does she get better concealment than Mahan? Mahan is displaced at 1,500t and Haida is almost 1,900t. WG's idea to balance ships around the concealment is bad for the game. 

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29 minutes ago, Plaatduutsch said:

I am talking about the concealment power creeping and absolute advantage against certain ships / shiptypes. 

IMHO, there is nothing good about Haida except that she is Canadian and she is stealthy. 

She being so stealthy is not a healthy design for this game. 

Why do a gunbote need a better concealment than pure torpbotes?

With 5.7km stealth, she can outspot all pure torpedo botes at Tier 7.

The Shiratsuyu will be outspotted, outgunned, out maneuvered and slower. Is there any chance that a Shira captain can outplay the Haida? Probably very unlikely. 

The Akatsuki, on the other hand, will be out-spotted to the moon. 

The design of Haida is unhealthy as design of Asashio/Belfast because they all had absolute advantage over certain ship/ship class and eliminates the chance of outplay by skill. 

It is rumored that Cossack at tier 8 will have 5.1km concealment, which will be an issue for many tier 8 9 10 DDs as well. 

Will I consider Haida a good bote? Probably NOT, but her mere existence is a disturbance for this game, same as Asashio. 

Haida is balanced. Not OP by any stretch. Saw many die today. As another poster pointed out Haida has to shoot and it will be spotted. It seem similar to USS Kidd. Excels at capping but not much else. With radar where it is right now stealth/dd stealth in particular is useless in many games. Other t7 dds are better rounded.

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She gets the best concealment along with the defensive hydro because the Haida is geared towards being a cap contester and the Brit dd's will likely follow this trend. Haida feels really sluggish to me mobility wise and the creeping smoke can be very limiting as it gives away pretty much your exact location.

Edited by Stand_Alone97

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31 minutes ago, Plaatduutsch said:

I am talking about the concealment power creeping and absolute advantage against certain ships / shiptypes. 

IMHO, there is nothing good about Haida except that she is Canadian and she is stealthy. 

She being so stealthy is not a healthy design for this game. 

Why do a gunbote need a better concealment than pure torpbotes?

With 5.7km stealth, she can outspot all pure torpedo botes at Tier 7.

The Shiratsuyu will be outspotted, outgunned, out maneuvered and slower. Is there any chance that a Shira captain can outplay the Haida? Probably very unlikely. 

The Akatsuki, on the other hand, will be out-spotted to the moon. 

The design of Haida is unhealthy as design of Asashio/Belfast because they all had absolute advantage over certain ship/ship class and eliminates the chance of outplay by skill. 

It is rumored that Cossack at tier 8 will have 5.1km concealment, which will be an issue for many tier 8 9 10 DDs as well. 

Will I consider Haida a good bote? Probably NOT, but her mere existence is a disturbance for this game, same as Asashio. 

Why not? They call Musashi a T9 so pretty much anything is fair game now.

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hmmm so I finally looked at Haida. She seems interesting and may honestly work with my tactics. I might have fun with her...

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47 minutes ago, Slumlord_Trump said:

At least Asashio is a torp boat and can't hit anything but BBs with torps.

I sank a Kronstat just the other day with fires, Then I rammed him and he flooded and sank. That's one of my greatest achievements ever. 

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I'm looking forward to many many games in that Haida.

I'm also very interested in Cossack, along with the Brit line as a whole.

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I guess it was only a matter of time before the posts started with "the new ship is OP". Focusing on only one strong aspect of the ship will always paint a poor picture, and her concealment is still not as good as several IJN DD's so it's not a new concept at all. Otherwise, if you actually play the ship, she is a good ship for experienced players only. Her HE isn't that great with only 5% fire chance, her AP is not as good as her HE, and she only has one torp launcher. With all the radar in the game and her moving smoke, Haida is actually pretty balanced for tier 7. 

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1 minute ago, Bravo_Zulu_000 said:

I guess it was only a matter of time before the posts started with "the new ship is OP". Focusing on only one strong aspect of the ship will always paint a poor picture, and her concealment is still not as good as several IJN DD's so it's not a new concept at all. Otherwise, if you actually play the ship, she is a good ship for experienced players only. Her HE isn't that great with only 5% fire chance, her AP is not as good as her HE, and she only has one torp launcher. With all the radar in the game and her moving smoke, Haida is actually pretty balanced for tier 7. 

So like before Asashio became active? "OMG ASASHIO GONNA BREAK THE GAME" Asashio goes active "ASASHIO SUCKS!"

:cap_book::fish_aqua:

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38 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

I am no DD player by any definition. But from what I have seen in game My opinion is the Canadian Tribal Class DD is  going to be in my Port if I ever get the cash.

Haida right? BTW, she's a damn gud bote! I'm going to be driving her some more later tonight.

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58 minutes ago, Plaatduutsch said:

I am talking about the concealment power creeping and absolute advantage against certain ships / shiptypes. 

IMHO, there is nothing good about Haida except that she is Canadian and she is stealthy. 

She being so stealthy is not a healthy design for this game. 

Why do a gunbote need a better concealment than pure torpbotes?

With 5.7km stealth, she can outspot all pure torpedo botes at Tier 7.

The Shiratsuyu will be outspotted, outgunned, out maneuvered and slower. Is there any chance that a Shira captain can outplay the Haida? Probably very unlikely. 

The Akatsuki, on the other hand, will be out-spotted to the moon. 

The design of Haida is unhealthy as design of Asashio/Belfast because they all had absolute advantage over certain ship/ship class and eliminates the chance of outplay by skill. 

It is rumored that Cossack at tier 8 will have 5.1km concealment, which will be an issue for many tier 8 9 10 DDs as well. 

Will I consider Haida a good bote? Probably NOT, but her mere existence is a disturbance for this game, same as Asashio. 

Haida's dispersion beyond 6.5 km, low ROF, single torpedo mount and weak damage potential for a DD forces this type of stealth play anyway. She is a knife fighter like we used to see in lower tiers, placed where radar can nullify all of her stealth qualities. I don't see Cossack being any different.

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52 minutes ago, Yunomicro said:

Everyone seems to forget that Asashio can hit carriers too :Smile_sad:

See where enemy cv spawns, find closet island to him, launch 16 torps in between, laugh as someone flames in chat. 

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33 minutes ago, wstugamd said:

Haida is balanced. Not OP by any stretch. Saw many die today. As another poster pointed out Haida has to shoot and it will be spotted. It seem similar to USS Kidd. Excels at capping but not much else. With radar where it is right now stealth/dd stealth in particular is useless in many games. Other t7 dds are better rounded.

I never said that Haida is OP. In fact, I even question whether it is a good boat. 

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37 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

I don't see an issue with the predator being stealthier than the prey.

Prey should not be completely defenseless. It's called counterplay and is a necessary thing to exist as it speaks to skill-based gameplay.

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29 minutes ago, Filthy_Pelican said:

I sank a Kronstat just the other day with fires, Then I rammed him and he flooded and sank. That's one of my greatest achievements ever. 

I congratulate you mister, well done!

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Just bought Haida. I suspect that my tactics will suit her perfectly.

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