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Tinytim_46

RN Light Cruisers Need some love.

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Hi all,

Now that we have had the release of the USN CL's its interesting to look at both lines. I believe mainly that the RN CL's need their armour increased and citidel lowered in line with the USN CL's. Looking mainly at the T8 to T10 ships.

If you look at the Des Moines and the Worcester the citidels are about the same and a minor difference between of 2 mill on armour. 

Now look at the difference between a Mino and Worcester. Both are CL's and yet Mino runs around with 16mm and the Worcester has 25mm. Then compare the size of citidels.

 

I think CL's of both lines should have the same armour and similar citidels. 

If you put a Mino 1v1 against any other T10 cruiser it will lose due to its armour. (only having AP doesn't help but it does fine for random battles). 

They managed to give a buff to the Moskava and armour when it didn't really need it. How about buffing RN CL's armour a bit in line with USN CL's. 

 

Yes Mino has smoke and torps with short range guns that have shells fall to earth at max range. For the guns to be good you have to get 10km-12km or closer. Smoke up, move in smoke and not be broadside. But spotter places make it easy to hit Mino in smoke and also people are very good these days at firing into smoke. It only take 1 BB shell to hit Mino in the cit and half health gone. 

I am not asking for major buffs just a little love for the RN Cruisers on the armour in line with the USN CLs.

 

Happy sailing 

Edited by Tinytim_46
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Umm the higher tier RN cruisers have amazing heals that the USN don't get along with smoke etc. They do not need buffs.

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A super heal really doesn't mean much when you have a citidel the size most RN CL's have. if you get a citidel hit on you most of the damage is not healable. People are also very very good at firing into smoke these days too.

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With warships today dead there's nowhere to look up recent stats afaik. However last time I could do that Neptune and Miniotour  where not doing well. Whilst i don't agree with giving them fictional armour upgrades i agree they need something. The problem is I see most high tier RN CL's take cits so easily that they rarely get to fully use their heals.

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4 minutes ago, Tinytim_46 said:

A super heal really doesn't mean much when you have a citidel the size most RN CL's have. if you get a citidel hit on you most of the damage is not healable. People are also very very good at firing into smoke these days too.

That super heal lets you heal back Citadel damage.  The Worcester and DM heal don't.

Couple that with smoke, and pretty insane maneuverability for a CL and you have a high skill cap CL in the Minotaur.  The ship is fine, and is already devastating in the right hands.

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8 minutes ago, Tinytim_46 said:

If you put a Mino 1v1 against any other T10 cruiser it will lose due to its armour. (only having AP doesn't help but it does fine for random battles). 

What? No. Your are still able to bow tank other cruisers AP if needed and with the Mino's concealment you should be ambushing any other cruiser. With 8 torps that can be single fired on each side, a close range brawl with a Mino is almost always likely to end badly for the other cruiser if the Mino is played properly. The only one you have to worry about is the Henri since it can overmatch you.

The RN CLs have all kinds of utility and very specific play style that works for them. Yeah if you try to play it like a Hindy you will get slaughtered but same goes for trying to play Des Moines that way. The thinner armor actually allows you to avoid a lot of big hits if they miss your citadel. Everything just over pens usually...

The Neptune is squishy but very deadly. The Edin is the bummer of the Line but the Fiji and Leander are considered some the best cruisers in there tiers.

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27 minutes ago, Tinytim_46 said:

Hi all,

Now that we have had the release of the USN CL's its interesting to look at both lines. I believe mainly that the RN CL's need their armour increased and citidel lowered in line with the USN CL's. Looking mainly at the T8 to T10 ships.

If you look at the Des Moines and the Worcester the citidels are about the same and a minor difference between of 2 mill on armour. 

Now look at the difference between a Mino and Worcester. Both are CL's and yet Mino runs around with 16mm and the Worcester has 25mm. Then compare the size of citidels.

 

I think CL's of both lines should have the same armour and similar citidels. 

If you put a Mino 1v1 against any other T10 cruiser it will lose due to its armour. (only having AP doesn't help but it does fine for random battles). 

They managed to give a buff to the Moskava and armour when it didn't really need it. How about buffing RN CL's armour a bit in line with USN CL's. 

 

Yes Mino has smoke and torps with short range guns that have shells fall to earth at max range. For the guns to be good you have to get 10km-12km or closer. Smoke up, move in smoke and not be broadside. But spotter places make it easy to hit Mino in smoke and also people are very good these days at firing into smoke. It only take 1 BB shell to hit Mino in the cit and half health gone. 

I am not asking for major buffs just a little love for the RN Cruisers on the armour in line with the USN CLs.

 

Happy sailing 

i dont have a minotaur but everytime i face one i find them extremly tanky and hard to kill

i dont think that ships needs a buff i think its a good ship has it is

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9 minutes ago, XpliCT_PaiiN said:

That super heal lets you heal back Citadel damage.  The Worcester and DM heal don't.

Couple that with smoke, and pretty insane maneuverability for a CL and you have a high skill cap CL in the Minotaur.  The ship is fine, and is already devastating in the right hands.

Actually the all cruiser heals heals cit damage. Albeit RN CL's heals more, 50% instead of 33%.

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3 minutes ago, Carl said:

Actually the all cruiser heals heals cit damage. Albeit RN CL's heals more, 50% instead of 33%.

Couple that with the 40% heal compared to the 14% every other ship gets, and you have a massive difference.  

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 High tier UK CL's cue up a large amount of cit damage with the heals plus the heal is very rapid.

 I'm going to disagree with any argument that 1v1 a Mino loses against any other T10 cruiser. I'm certainly no amazing player and I rarely lost a close range 1v1 during ranked with another cruiser if I had any HP left at all. In fact I won multiple 2v1's. Two that I recall were a Z52/DM in the C cap on Mountain range and a Moskva/HIV at the B cap on Hotspot.

 OTOH I lost most battles when I was caught at range when the opponent could bow/stern tank me and my torps weren't going to be a factor. Thats how it works, ships have strengths and weaknesses. If they only have strengths they're OP and get nerfed or removed like Belfast and Kutuzov.

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46 minutes ago, Tinytim_46 said:

Hi all,

Now that we have had the release of the USN CL's its interesting to look at both lines. I believe mainly that the RN CL's need their armour increased and citidel lowered in line with the USN CL's. Looking mainly at the T8 to T10 ships.

If you look at the Des Moines and the Worcester the citidels are about the same and a minor difference between of 2 mill on armour. 

Now look at the difference between a Mino and Worcester. Both are CL's and yet Mino runs around with 16mm and the Worcester has 25mm. Then compare the size of citidels.

 

I think CL's of both lines should have the same armour and similar citidels. 

If you put a Mino 1v1 against any other T10 cruiser it will lose due to its armour. (only having AP doesn't help but it does fine for random battles). 

They managed to give a buff to the Moskava and armour when it didn't really need it. How about buffing RN CL's armour a bit in line with USN CL's. 

 

Yes Mino has smoke and torps with short range guns that have shells fall to earth at max range. For the guns to be good you have to get 10km-12km or closer. Smoke up, move in smoke and not be broadside. But spotter places make it easy to hit Mino in smoke and also people are very good these days at firing into smoke. It only take 1 BB shell to hit Mino in the cit and half health gone. 

I am not asking for major buffs just a little love for the RN Cruisers on the armour in line with the USN CLs.

 

Happy sailing 

First the Minotaur is a LIGHT cruiser with the exception of the Worchester all other T-10 cruisers are HEAVY cruisers. Light cruisers should get smashed by heavy cruisers. The RN light cruisers are fine.

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I'm typically dubious of the blanket line buff nerfs.

What happened when they gave German Cruisers 1/4 HE pen? A few months later Roon/Hindy needed a ROF nerf to be kept in check.

Most RN CL are ok, I'd say the biggest buff candidate to me would be the dire Neptune - a CL with inferior concealment to pretty much all it's tier mates save the Russians, with 6.6km smoke firing detection to rub in the salt.

Similarly people call on RN BB to be nerfed, but Monarch and Queen Elizabeth really wouldn't deserve that.

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The Des Moines is 17,000 tons where the Minotaur is a whopping 8800 tons. The Minotaur is what she is, play to her strengths.

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1 hour ago, Tinytim_46 said:

Hi all,

They managed to give a buff to the Moskava and armour when it didn't really need it. How about buffing RN CL's armour a bit in line with USN CL's

It only take 1 BB shell to hit Mino in the cit and half health gone. 

I am not asking for major buffs just a little love for the RN Cruisers on the armour in line with the USN CLs.

 

Happy sailing 

You've made some great observations Tiny, I'm all for a little RN love.
 

8 minutes ago, mofton said:

I'm typically dubious of the blanket line buff nerfs.

What happened when they gave German Cruisers 1/4 HE pen? A few months later Roon/Hindy needed a ROF nerf to be kept in check.

Most RN CL are ok, I'd say the biggest buff candidate to me would be the dire Neptune - a CL with inferior concealment to pretty much all it's tier mates save the Russians, with 6.6km smoke firing detection to rub in the salt.

 

I'd agree to a small concealment buff in lieu of armor buff.

I use mah Mino like a DD, its time to go ahead and make it official ->  Mino best DD.!!

 

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14 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

the Minotaur is a whopping 8800 tons.

What's your source for that?

Also, long tons are commonly used in the UK while short tons are used in the US and Canada. If you're looking at stats for RN ships, the displacement is likely to be in long tons. 

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mino is fine, the neptune has and continues to be a giant steaming pile of crap.

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You guys do remember the RN line got the smoke buff right?  The main problem with the line is it requires players to learn positioning and how to not sit broadside while smoking or to not sit still in smoke and get traced, which most players can't do because they're potatoes.

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2 hours ago, XpliCT_PaiiN said:

Couple that with the 40% heal compared to the 14% every other ship gets, and you have a massive difference.  

 

 

In theory. Practise is very different. Whilst any cruiser can suffer a devastating strike when hit by a BB it's far more common with the RNCL's. It's rare in my experiance for them to take just one citadel even from a BB, Cruisers shooting at them are even worse. You can't heal anything back when your dead. The fact that they also ted to take a much higher percentage of their damage as cits also eroded their power significantly as they're going to struggle to fully utilize more than one heal, which robs their heals of virtually all their power.

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1 hour ago, Noble_Taipan said:

What's your source for that?

Also, long tons are commonly used in the UK while short tons are used in the US and Canada. If you're looking at stats for RN ships, the displacement is likely to be in long tons. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minotaur-class_cruiser_(1943)

Yes it is wiki but the ship related ones are generally pretty accurate, it is the political ones that are highly questionable. My experience is that anything measured in long tons aka a metric ton is stated in the information and even if it is long tons the Minotaur is under 10,000 standard tons.

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3 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minotaur-class_cruiser_(1943)

Yes it is wiki but the ship related ones are generally pretty accurate, it is the political ones that are highly questionable. My experience is that anything measured in long tons aka a metric ton is stated in the information and even if it is long tons the Minotaur is under 10,000 standard tons.

1. Wrong Minotaur

2. Long ton is not the same as a metric ton (otherwise simply known as tonne). 1 metric ton = 1.102 short tons or 0.984 long tons. There is no such thing as a 'standard ton'. 

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7 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minotaur-class_cruiser_(1943)

Yes it is wiki but the ship related ones are generally pretty accurate, it is the political ones that are highly questionable. My experience is that anything measured in long tons aka a metric ton is stated in the information and even if it is long tons the Minotaur is under 10,000 standard tons.

That Minotaur (1943) is not the in-game T10 with the same name, it's a completely different design.

Note the Minotaur (1943) has 3x3 turrets while our Minotaur has 5x2.

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2 hours ago, mofton said:

I'm typically dubious of the blanket line buff nerfs.

What happened when they gave German Cruisers 1/4 HE pen? A few months later Roon/Hindy needed a ROF nerf to be kept in check.

Most RN CL are ok, I'd say the biggest buff candidate to me would be the dire Neptune - a CL with inferior concealment to pretty much all it's tier mates save the Russians, with 6.6km smoke firing detection to rub in the salt.

Similarly people call on RN BB to be nerfed, but Monarch and Queen Elizabeth really wouldn't deserve that.

Still, a little attention to the vulnerability of RN cl citadels wouldn't go amiss, in light of the USN cl tech tree release.

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The only RN CL that honestly needs looking at is the Emerald. That ship sets a whole new bar for awfulness in this game. 

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7 minutes ago, Noble_Taipan said:

1. Wrong Minotaur

2. Long ton is not the same as a metric ton (otherwise simply known as tonne). 1 metric ton = 1.102 short tons or 0.984 long tons. There is no such thing as a 'standard ton'. 

Then the Minotaur we have in the game is another RN light cruiser or more likely pure paper. What we have seems to be more like the Fiji but that ship has four triple turrets and was a 10,000 ton ship.

A metric ton is  2205 pounds and a long ton is 2240 pounds so they are functionally equal for simple comparison purposes.

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