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Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu

What is the obsession with A cap on Neighbours?

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Whether in a Domination match or Standard Battle on this map, the most frustrating thing is when the majority of the enemy team or the majority of my team decides to go the far off A cap. Usually when either team does that it turns into one big [edited] fest or a blowout loss. I always call for capping C and contesting B, with C being the cap of choice because of ample island cover and the closer distance to my team compared to A cap. Many players seem to not realize that A is a trap without sufficient cover, and from the team behavior I've seen the team that manages to push and cap C is the team that wins the match. C is especially advantageous if you're a cruiser, because you can use island cover to block shots and if you're a ship with a high shell arc you can get into position and spam shells over islands. No other cap allows you to do that effectively. Whether north spawn or south spawn, I always go to C or if in Standard mode, the area that's C in Domination with the island cluster.

   I've also noticed a similar pattern with fail teams on Shards, where players head to the further A cap (big islands) rather than push and consolidate C, which is much closer and provides better cover. In those cases the team usually loses, or at least makes the win far less straightforward. There seems to be an unusually high loss rate on Neighbours for the team that spawns north. Usually in north spawn my team goes far south, leaving me and just a few allies going to the island cluster which is clearly the advantageous position to take early in the game. These players usually don't heed the warnings of someone who actually knows a bit about damn map strategy, they just want to do their own thing. Every time when it's south spawn on Neighbours I'm absolutely fine with it, but north spawn makes me want to puke all over myself.

    Another annoying tendency I'm seeing is some players suggesting splitting the team at the beginning of a match in a 3-cap Domination match. For example, one idiot suggests A/C when A/B or B/C is the right way to play. I tell them it's not a good idea to split the team early on because the enemy will likely converge forces at a cap, or spanning two adjacent caps, which means one half of the allied team will be outnumbered and outgunned early on, letting the enemy take two caps. Again, I get told to [edited] off, that I have no right to tell them how to play. Of course there are also matches where the team lemmings to one cap, then sits right outside the cap and does absolutely nothing,

   In a lot of recent matches, I try to play the right way on these maps instead of following the lemming train (because I know the lemming train will be decimated) because somewhere deep down I hope my team will see the light and realize their idea doesn't work, but more often than not I find myself isolated for playing what I've known to be the correct way by a flanking enemy team that is doing the right thing. It's immense frustration.

 

   I feel that WG is too forgiving to players who fail over and over again after thousands of battles and refuse to learn anything about the game. I'm no unicum myself, far from it, but I just can't stop expressing the fact that I'm becoming fed up having to babysit (often to no effect) and play the unicum. I am moved to tears because IDK wth the team thinks they are doing, and they think they are good enough and try to silence a half-decent player that has made those mistakes but is learning from them.

Edited by Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu
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33 minutes ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

I feel that WG is too forgiving to players who fail over and over again after thousands of battles and refuse to learn anything about the game. I'm no unicum myself, far from it, but I just can't stop expressing the fact that I'm becoming fed up having to babysit (often to no effect) and play the unicum. I am moved to tears because IDK wth the team thinks they are doing, and they think they are good enough and try to silence a half-decent player that has made those mistakes but is learning from them.

You're moved to tears over a game?

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Your Shards analogy is poor.

Shards is heavily dependent on which side you spawn. North wants to take B/C, South wants to take A/B. B is the critical cap on Shards, and the key to winning the match. If you hold B, the enemy is reluctant to push in and take it, as it's fairly open with little cover. They will however, go for one of the side caps as they provide cover from 2/3rds of the map, roughly. This is where the side you spawn on comes into play. If you spawn North, you want your DDs to quickly take C, and have them and some cruisers(maybe one BB) stall the enemy there. The South spawn is going to gravitate towards C because of the clear line of fire into the cap. Once stalled long enough to secure B cap and drive off or kill any enemies who went to cap A, your team needs to lure the enemy through C cap. This forces them to come out from between the islands one by one in a neat little row, or circle around the large island to the cap's north. This makes it very easy for your team to focus fire them one by one and pick them off, while taking little retaliation fire, and it's even harder for the enemy to  backtrack and go south to try and take B.

Just flip this strategy for spawning on the South side.

 

The reason why the analogy is poor is because Shards is mirrored diagonally, perpendicular to the line of cap circles, as opposed to Neighbors, which is also mirrored diagonally, but along the line of cap circles. Not to mention that the proximity of B and C plus all the hard cover makes it easier to take one and contest the other, or hold both. It takes a good concentrated push from A straight into B with angles against north and south C cap to succeed in taking B(and having a small task force of flankers on one or both sides does help immensely). Interesting to note, Neighbors is unlike other maps with a similar layout of two neighboring caps (no pun intended, honest) being better than the other, because the islands cutting off B/C are advantageous, versus most other maps like that where the islands are disadvantageous, like Sea of Fortune, Okinawa, or Warriors path, and to a lesser extent, Fault Line

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Umm, no. The biggest problem on Neigbors is the lemming towards C cap (especially in Standard). It rarely works, though is better in Domination, and often turns into a drift towards the NE corner. This latter issue is almost always disastrous for the northern team in Standard mode.

 Too many times have I watched my team melt in that eastern rock garden. Though to be fair, it’s more often the northern team that has this issue. For either team the capping of the home base most often comes from the direction of the A cap area.

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Yur doing it wrong. Neighbors is an AB map. The "island cover" cuts teams into easily killed groups. Whereas A and B form a mutually supporting pair of caps. C on Neighbors should always be conceded since ships in C cant support B very well and can be killed singly as they attempt to enter B.

Edited by Taichunger
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Thanks for the advice, I'll be sure to remember it. Perhaps my understanding of these maps is flawed in the sense that I'm being a bit too ship specific. For example, when I play a ship like the Atlanta I always think about going to the cap with the most island cover. I guess every ship line is different and what's advantageous to me may not be for them. Maybe the bigger problem I've seen in these matches is a lack of skill / coordination.

Edited by Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu

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On Neighbors, I have found that if you spawn in the NW, you go B/C. If you spawn in the SE, you go A/B

The reason being is the the SE spawn is often set up in A and as the NW team comes around the islands, they face a wall of torps and shells. Also the NW team straggles into A with DDs first if they go, followed by the cruisers then BBS (Which can take forever to get there). The NE team is usually either forced to make a wide turn back north, or go wide to the south.

Conversely, the NW spawn can get into the islands in the north quickly. They get the benefit of cover and good firing position on C and some of B. When they SE team tries to enter the island complex, there is no real way for them to come in as a force. The islands create choke points, limit movement of the ships, and allow the NW team to focus fire on them. The SE team usually tries to push, then ends up retreating, sometimes getting mangled in the process.

B is usually a knife fight,and whoever can get it capped first will reap the points. Also,the fight over B allows the teams to contest A and C respectively, as you want to slow the enemies progress in capping their strong cap so that your team can unify your forces and push into B and beyond.

Each team needs to contest their weak cap, but not throw ships away at it.

Now, there are always exceptions, and I have seen teams beat the above strategies. However, in my experience, 75% of the time, the above strategy works. If the teams are evenly matched with skill, the battle will be very close.

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Never go full A. Just don't.

It rarely ends well and I do keep telling people. You need the cover of the islands at C. It's no good attacking over open water.

But nobody listens.

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If i am on the side of A, thats where i am going. B is way too open to try and duke it out with a bunch of reds while the islands at A do provide some useful cover.

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1 hour ago, GhostSwordsman said:

Shards is heavily dependent on which side you spawn. North wants to take B/C, South wants to take A/B. B is the critical cap on Shards, and the key to winning the match.

For some reason it sticks in my head that this is exactly the opposite of what WG intended to happen when they first released the map... (what was said at the time in the forum, I think...)

About Neighbors; same as others have said; on Standard I see the caps lost by units coming through the Domination A cap area more often than not. What’s really pathetic about that it’s often easily seen battleships or cruisers that do the deed, maybe even more often than it is destroyers...

Map awareness iz OP plz nerf...

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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If you're in a ship like a light cruiser or USN CA, spawning on the SE side on Neighbours, facing B and C (south spawn), means that it will take a long time for you to head to A. That means a lot of time will be spent sailing in open water where you don't fire and don't do any damage (because it's too risky), or you fire and risk getting shot at, OR the enemy will take advantage of your team lemming to A and take the B and C caps giving them a better head start. Meanwhile your team reaches A, they might cap it or maybe they won't, and then they just sit there like a bunch of clueless chickens. That's what I've noticed a lot.

   I'd say A is less optimal for cover than C when it comes to the ship types I've mentioned, because A has a couple of big islands that take a long time to reach / reverse / poke your head out of, while C has many smaller islands where you can 'island hop' from one to the other depending on the situation.

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Actually, on the way to A for the SE team, BBs can cover the push for B. The BBs can also draw fire to allow the CLs/CAs to let lose a few salvos. Yes, the cover at A is not the same as the cover in C. Coming out of A is an art form, but if you make sure your angles are right before you start firing, it is not nearly as traumatic. Also coming up the west side of the map allows you to put the NW team in a crossfire, and a good crossfire negates angling. :cap_rambo:

In no way do I condone a lemming train, and in no way am I saying that you cannot use the northern islands for cover. What I won't do, is go INTO the northern islands, as this is just asking for it. Skirting the northern islands and using them as cover to contest the northern cap is a solid strategy. The SE team going into the islands early on for any other reason other than the NW team has a lemming train south is just throwing away your ship. Also going too far north is likely going to separate you from the rest of the fleet, or string out your line. OR you will end up suddenly alone, as the other ships realize they have over extended.

All this is also dependent on ship classes and the numbers of each you have.

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1 hour ago, HQ_21 said:

Umm, no. The biggest problem on Neigbors is the lemming towards C cap (especially in Standard). It rarely works, though is better in Domination, and often turns into a drift towards the NE corner. This latter issue is almost always disastrous for the northern team in Standard mode.

 Too many times have I watched my team melt in that eastern rock garden. Though to be fair, it’s more often the northern team that has this issue. For either team the capping of the home base most often comes from the direction of the A cap area.

Very true.

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6 minutes ago, Billy2Hawks said:

Actually, on the way to A for the SE team, BBs can cover the push for B. The BBs can also draw fire to allow the CLs/CAs to let lose a few salvos. Yes, the cover at A is not the same as the cover in C. Coming out of A is an art form, but if you make sure your angles are right before you start firing, it is not nearly as traumatic. Also coming up the west side of the map allows you to put the NW team in a crossfire, and a good crossfire negates angling. :cap_rambo:

In no way do I condone a lemming train, and in no way am I saying that you cannot use the northern islands for cover. What I won't do, is go INTO the northern islands, as this is just asking for it. Skirting the northern islands and using them as cover to contest the northern cap is a solid strategy. The SE team going into the islands early on for any other reason other than the NW team has a lemming train south is just throwing away your ship. Also going too far north is likely going to separate you from the rest of the fleet, or string out your line. OR you will end up suddenly alone, as the other ships realize they have over extended.

All this is also dependent on ship classes and the numbers of each you have.

Well i don't push deep into the islands at C, I am referring to what you're saying, which is skirting the C cap by taking up position on one of the outermost islands for as long as possible. Once the enemies there are dead, then I will quickly shift in the direction of B. 

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C is terrible.  People got there, and stop.  I prefer A, and it is not close.  C is nearly always a loss.

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1 hour ago, HQ_21 said:

Umm, no. The biggest problem on Neigbors is the lemming towards C cap (especially in Standard). It rarely works, though is better in Domination, and often turns into a drift towards the NE corner. This latter issue is almost always disastrous for the northern team in Standard mode.

 Too many times have I watched my team melt in that eastern rock garden. Though to be fair, it’s more often the northern team that has this issue. For either team the capping of the home base most often comes from the direction of the A cap area.

Truth

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