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lewtmunkey

How to BB in this new era of FIRE SPAM?

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Howdy,

I have been a BB main for a while now and absolutely loved the full brawler build on the KF and Republic. I was just getting the hang of it and getting my win rates up into 55-60%.

The last couple days I have been brutalized getting in close. DD's not going into cap or just sitting behind an island not spotting, CA's just island humping and lobbing fire at anything that moves.

Is the brawling BB a dead art now?,, should I just grab my yammy and snipe from the J line? Is this whole fire spam thing a fad or is this the new way to play this game?

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5 minutes ago, lewtmunkey said:

Howdy,

I have been a BB main for a while now and absolutely loved the full brawler build on the KF and Republic. I was just getting the hang of it and getting my win rates up into 55-60%.

The last couple days I have been brutalized getting in close. DD's not going into cap or just sitting behind an island not spotting, CA's just island humping and lobbing fire at anything that moves.

Is the brawling BB a dead art now?,, should I just grab my yammy and snipe from the J line? Is this whole fire spam thing a fad or is this the new way to play this game?

You must not have been around that long.  No the HE spam from BB players is not new.  It started happening more when they released the RN battleships and people realized that you could farm damage and get a regular supply of it using HE.  Nothing new.  Just new to you maybe.

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No but it requires a certain finesse.  Going straight in is just going to get you melted.  Got to learn to hang back until the chaff gets sorted out.  Play the midline,  use those hitpoints and those repairs to get you through the early parts of the match until closer to the end.  As the DD's and CA/L's get sorted out you can afford to start pushing more. Getting up into that 10-12km sweet spot too early on is just going to get you sank with very little to show for it.

Also side note,  HE against a bow in BB's is the best option anyway.  That's how I know if someone is at least decent,  if they switch from AP to HE when I start plowing towards them top speed with my bow to them.  

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Its not just the fire spam,, tho it is much worse lately,, its the whole island humping and lobbing over them, or sitting in smoke and hiding. It makes it impossible to push anymore in a BB, especially a brawling BB

The last couple days I have been wiped out so early in the game. I am used to doing 100-400 secondary hits a game, now I cant survive long enough to see a DD...

The way I see BB play now is to stay out of range of all these flame throwers sitting behind islands and just snipe?

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Let the dust settle when people get tired of grinding the USN CLs. Or plan to outflank islands from max distance for a bunch of dev strikes..

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HE spam is just one thing you need to deal with as a BB captain. Sure it’s annoying but there are ways to limit/mitigate the damage. 

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"New Era" of Fire spam :Smile_teethhappy:  The answer is still the same as always.

1.  Don't put your ship, any ship, in a focus fire spot.  This is BY FAR the most important thing to do in survival.  Focus Fire is the most dangerous thing and no build and tactic will save you from getting paddled hard if you put your ship in a dumb position.

2.  Don't use your DCP on 1 fire when in combat with the reds.  Feel free to do it if you're undetected, but doing so while detected is asking for a paddlin'.  People watch for those kind of fools, you know.

3.  Shoot at the Cruisers and make them remember that they have Citadels.

4.  Survival / Fire Prevention BB Builds.  Personally, having every BB in the game except Arkansas Beta and Ashitaka, very few of my BBs even do Survival Builds because Points 1-3 above do it for me.  But some do Survival Builds and I understand the reasons why.

 

I'm a Cruiser Main but with tons and tons and tons of Battleship experience also, getting to a point where BB Battles are rapidly approaching my total Cruiser Battles.  I've been on both sides of the coin.  I've been the Cruiser HE spamming on a BB, been the BB under HE attack.  I've also been the Cruiser fighting some BB that isn't stupid and knows how to aim, and makes my Cruiser pay.  I've also done it the other way around.

 

A great example I had a while back was being in an open water portion of Northern Lights.

300px-Northern_Lights.png

I was using Henri IV with a fire based build.  Demo Expert + Both Fire Signal Flags = 26% Fire Chance.

I was fighting a Yamato player.

Typical engagement range was 17-18km.  Lots of open water in the NW.

I was burning the hell out of Yamato 1-on-1, but Yamato was smart in preserving his ship, handling my fires, and patiently planting accurate 460mm AP salvos, hitting me even that far out.  We both died.  He got me with good AP salvos but I burned him with one last HE salvo that caused fires, burning him to death.

 

The fight shows what a Cruiser and Battleship can do to each other if played decently.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Respec for a fire prevention build utilizing the many captain skills, modules, and flags that reduce fire time and the amount of time fires that can be set on you.

Then just farm those easy dreadnaughts and fireproofs!

But yes, brawling BB is pretty dead at high tiers. Secondary builds just aren't all that viable against larger ships, and the long-term strategic advantage is often very bad when brawling. You get to close, you're overextended, you can either back up and get shelled to death, advance into enemy fire and torpedoes, or turn and get broadside chunked (then probably shot to death as you run away).

Edited by Cruiser_StLouis

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Hey, Lewt. Honestly, it's been this way the entire time I've played, almost 2 years.

 

I'm the odd duck, I use FP on only two captains total, and I tend to survive my matches in BBs, fire notwithstanding. Dreadnought's and Fireproof's are quite nice to have. Remember, fire damage is 100% repairable. Good use of modules and flags mitigates most fire assaults, and being well positioned should take care of the rest.

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Had a Cleveland HEing my Kii yesterday.  I deleted him.  He stopped.

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10 minutes ago, Hatework said:

Had a Cleveland HEing my Kii yesterday.  I deleted him.  He stopped.

"My Battleship's guns ARE my Survival and Fire Prevention Build."

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21 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

"My Battleship's guns ARE my Survival and Fire Prevention Build."

 

Exactly, just pop those HE spamming cruisers like a fresh zit.

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Just now, RipNuN2 said:

 

Exactly, just pop those HE spamming cruisers like a fresh zit.

It's the simple, inconvenient truth.

 

If you can't reply with accurate gunfire, nobody will respect your Battleship.  If you can't hit sh*t as a BB, you'll see the Cruiser get cozy and open up all their guns on you for Max DPM.  But if you show you can actually hit them, then things suddenly change.  Now they got to worry about range and maneuvering, likely not showing max guns for max DPM anymore.  Maybe they get driven off and go dark to do something else.  Or maybe they just die.

 

But again, if you have bad aim as a BB, nobody will respect you.

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5 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

It's the simple, inconvenient truth.

 

If you can't reply with accurate gunfire, nobody will respect your Battleship.  If you can't hit sh*t as a BB, you'll see the Cruiser get cozy and open up all their guns on you for Max DPM.  But if you show you can actually hit them, then things suddenly change.  Now they got to worry about range and maneuvering, likely not showing max guns for max DPM anymore.  Maybe they get driven off and go dark to do something else.  Or maybe they just die.

 

But again, if you have bad aim as a BB, nobody will respect you.

Ageed, especially when you cant exploit the one advantage you have over cruisers accurately.

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42 minutes ago, lewtmunkey said:

Howdy,

I have been a BB main for a while now and absolutely loved the full brawler build on the KF and Republic. I was just getting the hang of it and getting my win rates up into 55-60%.

The last couple days I have been brutalized getting in close. DD's not going into cap or just sitting behind an island not spotting, CA's just island humping and lobbing fire at anything that moves.

Is the brawling BB a dead art now?,, should I just grab my yammy and snipe from the J line? Is this whole fire spam thing a fad or is this the new way to play this game?

If you get a team that will back the play, irritatingly rare these days, brawling is still more than viable. However, you have to use the flags to cut fire time and up the amount repaired as well as the modernizations to reduce chance and out time as well to even stand a chance. If you have a plane and someones lurking behind an island, pop it and that can help spot them because you may still get a shot. Most Islands they hide behind for saftey have spots that  even with USN orbital strike arcs, can't actually fire over at ranges. You basically have to bow tank HE now like it's AP to try and minimize where they can hit to start a fire, and you have to some times let two fires burn in order to have DCP up to put out four because despite what people say I have used Cleveland or had my BB lit up 3-4 times by single ships. Doable, but just hard as hell especially if all your team does is sit back and let the enemy take everything.

 

And the meta has been shifting this way a long time, but especially with Cleveland moved to 8 and people getting it back in fighting shape and prepping for the now out USN light cruisers, it's just exacerbated it. Plus the campaign running along side it having a heavy focus on cruisers. Problem is that even before the game went live, fires were a contested issue because of the fact that sometimes a ton started on you and especially BB's and CV's could get screwed real fast. DD's and cruisers could as well, but not quite as bad or often. But it finally hit a point of "fine we'll deal with it" across the board because while maybe not CV's, BB's and some of the cruisers routinely had the HE shells shatter for no damage, they only did anything if the fires were started. But then DD and light cruiser/small gun cruiser players complained in particular about the fact they couldn't damage BB's effectively because some had near useless torps, or in USN's case none at all in cruisers, AP bounced from bow tanking, and HE just shattered and sometimes, your luck was bad or theirs was good and you started no fires. A fairly legitimate issue. So they added IFHE to the game. Well, problem is that now, angle, broadside, doesn't matter cruisers pretty much auto pen with HE when they have that skill. And it's not really small potatoes either it's taking off large chunks of HP at a time. Take Cleveland - 12 guns, 9 salvo's a minute, 9% fire chance with IFHE, and it's HE shells do 2200 HE damage max, so 726 when they pen. Sounds small but inside of 60 seconds even at 50% accuracy, that's 54/108 rounds, that's 39204 damage JUST off penetrating hits. Almost half the HP of a BB a tier higher than it. And when you consider on average nearly 1 in 10 hits starts a fire, there's a good chance you start 2-3 that stick and take off 12.24%-18% depending on build of HP, 10.4% if they've managed to build survivability. Repair, other than UK heals back 14% or with the flag, 16.8%. So were all good right? Well, let's say the average tier 9 BB HP is 80k. Even at the lower 12.24% number, each fire is 9792 damage. So, all those hits, plus 2 fires, is 58788 damage out of 80000. The max heal is 13440 damage. So over the 58788 damage you just took, you can heal back enough for it to be 45348 leaving you with about 35k HP - and a minute and twenty seconds till you can try and repair any more damage with the premium consumable, 2 minutes with regular. Meaning you need to either manage to out range that cruiser, somehow get unspotted in a ship easily spotted halfway across the map, or find n island that even USN can't shoot over to hide behind. And that's just 1 ship. "But you can heal back 100% of fire damage" - true only if you have heals - and with premium consumable and SI about 7 minutes disengaged completely from battle. "But that BB can devastate the cruiser" - true, if it can land a citadel hit they hit at tier 9 for around 13k damage. So, 3 citadel hits from 2 salvo's match that damage output. Closer to 4 if you count the fires. But let's assume for a moment that dispersion is unkind at range, maybe their aim is slightly off or everyone's favourite - even hitting the citadel the armour is so thin you still overpen it. without a citadel hit it takes a BB 10 normal pens or 30 overpens to match that damage without the fires. 2 BB salvo's  is 16-18 rounds, 55-62% accuracy scoring full pens. Sure, that's enough to destroy that tier lower Cleveland - assuming it's somewhere you can hit it and score those kinds of numbers.

 

And before anyone misunderstands me - I'm not saying BB's are hard done by. When RNG for dispersion is on their side it is way too easy for them to dev strike a cruiser and the current bit with AP vs a DD is an issue and would personally instead of making DD armour weaker to create more over pens lower the AP damage of BB's about 15-20% (so about 2000 damage at the high tiers) to kill two birds with one stone in making it DD's and cruisers can survive a BB better, meaning cruisers can move up more in open water, and not just hide from BB's at max range when there are few or no islands, and not compromise DD protection vs cruisers and other DD's. My point is that with IFHE making for decent reliable alpha damage, and that being the norm not even getting into UK's flamethrower BB's, DD's and cruisers got a buff against fires, and more and more of them are getting repairs, BB's need a slight one too from a base of 18% damage to just a base of 15% at the least. And I can tell you the exact difference that makes - BB's would generally survive 1 more fire that is set on them compared to now, 2 more, if they went full survivability. 

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You either go FP build or do like I did and stop playing for a while, because yeah it can get ridiculous sometimes. You are a BB = you are there for others to farm fire damage from.

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I think the part about using DCP on 1 fire should be updated to Do not use DCP on 2 fires.

Id say if you got 3 then you have an issue and if you have 2 but you can drop off the let 2 burn until it is safe to put them out.

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Unpopular opinion:

  Just take your brawlers out in pve battles.   Bots don't camp, island hug; or run around at the ragged edge of detection.   They come AT you, lol!

You can still have fun battering things with secondaries,  beating on things at ranges where your dispersion doesn't matter much, and even getting into those nail biting edge of your seat BB knife fights.   It's just that the bots shoot a lot straiter than much of the playerbase, and have fire/flood and module damage chances that are off the charts.  And watch out for the torp cruisers- they charge, and RARELY miss with torpedoes.

  Best of all, your AA spec ship is still viable, because a bunch of CV drivers have taken to playing in Co-op.  (seriously- I see lots of rank 10 or better CV players in Co-op games)  Bot CV's aren't smart enough to avoid AA ships- if they pick YOU as their next victim, they're coming.  Then you'll get to blow up planes to your heart's content.   I've racked up some silly plane kill totals in my Nor-Cal, Cleveland and Balti/Buffalo.

  Yes,  it may impact the perceived size of your junk- but at least you'll get to have fun playing your brawlers the way they were meant to be played.

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I do mostly British and Japanese BBs, with a side of American BBs, and find durability builds to be the most enjoyable.  Players advocating secondary builds like to spout off that none of the defensive skills/modules do anything, but that is false.  There is a very noticeable difference between how Amagi or Hood feel underfire compared to how Bismarck, with a secondary build, feels.

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One thing I've found is very useful for the ranges I typically shoot at is concealment instead of the anti-fire 4 pointer.

It's a lot easier to manage fires by not getting shot at in between your reloads.

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6 minutes ago, J30_Reinhardt said:

One thing I've found is very useful for the ranges I typically shoot at is concealment instead of the anti-fire 4 pointer.

It's a lot easier to manage fires by not getting shot at in between your reloads.

Why not both? My main US BB captain has both. Works well enough, certainly better than when he had AFT instead of FP.

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2 minutes ago, MrSparkle said:

Why not both? My main US BB captain has both. Works well enough, certainly better than when he had AFT instead of FP.

I aint got that many captains with enough points for that, but from what I've seen/experienced I don't need both. Only repair on 2x fires, disengage and stealth while you heal up and maybe get superintendent for another heal.

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 Tank build Musashi.  I rarely bother putting out even two fires. Let the Spammers feel good.. then kill them. Just farm the fireproof and dreadnaught. Had a match a few days ago where I was hit by almost 400 HE shells. I died but we won as the reds were so busy focusing me my team rolled them up.

tankbuild1.PNG.d00192760e9048f4ebe2801d1f5adf3e.PNG

 ^^ so not joking about letting fires burn.

 

 

 

Edited by Ares1967

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