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TheStarSlayer

Helena: Tier VII Jack Hammer

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Only had a couple matches with her on maps that favor her attributes but I have a feeling Helena and I will have some good times together.  Personally I've been looking forward to the Brooklyn/St. Louis class CLs for a long time, if you are interested in getting an appreciation for Helena and Boise I would recommend reading James D. Hornfischer's  Neptune's Inferno.    

r08ao6.jpg

As expected the shells need to log their flight plans with NASA and she will get squished when focused, but if you can leverage islands and friendlies to stay ignored and keep those guns humming she can rack up the DPM.  The catch is that unless you are a SME with those 155mm arcs you need to be within 10~12km to comfortably engage maneuvering targets.  Without cover or distractions this is a scary place to be in a relatively squishy CL and at those ranges its difficult to juke most incoming fire.  I think this ship will really need to pick favorable fights early match so you can husband HP for mid late game where you can leverage that DPM to out trade weakened enemies.

35i808z.jpg

 

Tier VII for me is the Goldilocks Zone for MM with fun ships that are generally competitive with everything they will see.  I am hoping the trend continues with Helena.

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How do you think it'll do in the two Tier 7 scenarios?  French Gold, Frontier, and Narai (if it ever comes back).

My guess is that it'll do great in Narai, OK in the Gold, and horrid in Frontier.

[Note that they are changing enemy ships in Frontier.]

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Wait till you get to Worcester.  It's like Helena on steroids.

Just sucks that you have to grind through the turd that is Seattle to get to the pinnacle.  

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1 hour ago, TheStarSlayer said:

Only had a couple matches with her on maps that favor her attributes but I have a feeling Helena and I will have some good times together.  Personally I've been looking forward to the Brooklyn/St. Louis class CLs for a long time, if you are interested in getting an appreciation for Helena and Boise I would recommend reading James D. Hornfischer's  Neptune's Inferno.    

Glad I'm not the only one that's read Neptune's Inferno. Probably the best book about the surface actions during the Guadalcanal campaign.  Should take me another day or two to grind out the Helena, I'm looking forward to it.

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30 minutes ago, Wittman73 said:

Glad I'm not the only one that's read Neptune's Inferno. Probably the best book about the surface actions during the Guadalcanal campaign.  Should take me another day or two to grind out the Helena, I'm looking forward to it.

Funny I ended up reading Neptune's Inferno and Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors in chronological order.  So when I picked up Last Stand, I suddenly realized Bob Hagen had a very, very busy war.

Helena will definitely have some matches where she is a square peg in the round hole, but I think overall  at tier VII she will probably get Maps and Teams that fit her attributes more often than not.

 

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I'm enjoying Helena a lot. Its biggest problem I'm finding is its vulnerability to 6" and IFHE 5" fire, which makes it a bit of a nail-biter to engage enemy cruisers.  Omahas and Atlantas have given me a rough time in a way I'm not really used to.

Unlike other US cruisers though, you have the volume of fire to be an intimidating presence even when you're not sitting in cover. Its turrets are nimble even if the ship isn't the most maneuverable. My captain doesn't have IFHE yet (moved from Atlanta and stupidly missed the respec discount), but I still do pretty respectable damage.

You still need a pretty good situational awareness and ability to be choosy with your encounters, but that's foundational for both US cruiser lines anyway.

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I have only 10 Random Battles with Helena and me love her long time! I was looking forward to getting her in my port and I aint disappointed in the least. Once you get the hang of putting those floaty shells on target she's a beast. She's more robust than I expected too. It's too bad that the reload time aint on par with Cleveland. :cap_rambo:

Edited by ReddNekk

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The site still says there are only 45 battles played in the Helena and I just played 5 battles in it. Is the owner of WoWS Numbers too busy cheering on his national team?

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I played 12 battles in it yesterday; the 45 game stat surprised me too.  Mostly enjoyed it, though you really only get one mistake per battle with this ship.  I think my favorite thing with this ship is when an enemy DD suddenly materializes right in front of all 15 of Helena's guns and just as quickly evaporates.  She is a bit slower than I'd like (32 kts without flags), and doesn't seem to turn well (at least to me) which has put me in a bad place a few times but I expect I'll adjust.  But if you enjoy the island humping, HE spamming kind of gameplay then Helena will be an enjoyable ship.

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Is it very close to the last T6 Cleveland ? I haven't researched it and the old Cleveland particulars are gone now, right ?

Edited by Ericson38

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3 hours ago, Ericson38 said:

Is it very close to the last T6 Cleveland ? I haven't researched it and the old Cleveland particulars are gone now, right ?

IIRC, Helena has fewer HP than old Cleveland with a bigger citadel, is slightly less maneuverable but has 3 extra guns with the same max range of 14.6km.  But that is just from memory, so I may be off a little.

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On 6/28/2018 at 11:18 AM, TheStarSlayer said:

Only had a couple matches with her on maps that favor her attributes but I have a feeling Helena and I will have some good times together.  Personally I've been looking forward to the Brooklyn/St. Louis class CLs for a long time, if you are interested in getting an appreciation for Helena and Boise I would recommend reading James D. Hornfischer's  Neptune's Inferno.    

r08ao6.jpg

As expected the shells need to log their flight plans with NASA and she will get squished when focused, but if you can leverage islands and friendlies to stay ignored and keep those guns humming she can rack up the DPM.  The catch is that unless you are a SME with those 155mm arcs you need to be within 10~12km to comfortably engage maneuvering targets.  Without cover or distractions this is a scary place to be in a relatively squishy CL and at those ranges its difficult to juke most incoming fire.  I think this ship will really need to pick favorable fights early match so you can husband HP for mid late game where you can leverage that DPM to out trade weakened enemies.

35i808z.jpg

 

Tier VII for me is the Goldilocks Zone for MM with fun ships that are generally competitive with everything they will see.  I am hoping the trend continues with Helena.

From my experiences, though personally the most anticipated ship of the line Helena leaves much to be desired for a variety of reasons.

 

i know the inj team out there think 15 guns is op. what i am suprised is that nobody acknowledged 15 guns is nothing new. On top of that, the range is unusually skewered on a caliber that really doesn't have much going for it and is really held back with a 8.5s relaod. Unlike Mogami, which has larger Calibre [155mm] and higher fire chance, Helena has 152mm guns that have significantly shorter range, less damage, less fire chance. It is no doubt, Helena was balanced directly against Mogami; probably on behalf of the inj crowd. However, unlike Mogami,  Helena doesnt have 10km torpedoes. She doesnt have high fire chance. She doesn't have radar or smoke.

What does this all mean?

Helena, unlike any if her contemporaries including Atlanta, is significantly more team dependant, especially on BBs because 14.6km range isnt enough to partake even in RN engagement ranges. And to make matters worse, her 15 gun privileges is negated by having zero stopping power, because the 8.5s reload i feel has less effective firepower than twelve 7.5s reload guns firing at the same range.

Given that Helena has to close to more than a kilometer just to be effective in a camping engagement than her nearest contemporary Fiji, without smoke or torps. Helena, like pre-buff Cleveland leaves much to be desired. To become competitive Helena needs one of the following:

A) increased range to 15.6km

Or

B) increase RoF to 7.5s: 6.5 prefered.

6.5s reload would give Helena, the stopping power torpedo a less brawler would need to put the fear in the hearts of the enemy. 

Right now, any bb any tier or caliber can casually waltz up to Helena and simply blap her when friendly bbs sit comfortably at their effective combat ranges.

Right now, Helena looks competitive, sounds competitive, but is anything but Competitive; longer range or faster reload will change that.

Edited by Crokodone
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Btw, what mod give her hull numbers?

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1 hour ago, Crokodone said:

From my experiences, though personally the most anticipated ship of the line Helena leaves much to be desired for a variety of reasons.

 

i know the inj team out there think 15 guns is op. what i am suprised is that nobody acknowledged 15 guns is nothing new. On top of that, the range is unusually skewered on a caliber that really doesn't have much going for it and is really held back with a 8.5s relaod. Unlike Mogami, which has larger Calibre [155mm] and higher fire chance, Helena has 152mm guns that have significantly shorter range, less damage, less fire chance. It is no doubt, Helena was balanced directly against Mogami; probably on behalf of the inj crowd. However, unlike Mogami,  Helena doesnt have 10km torpedoes. She doesnt have high fire chance. She doesn't have radar or smoke.

What does this all mean?

Helena, unlike any if her contemporaries including Atlanta, is significantly more team dependant, especially on BBs because 14.6km range isnt enough to partake even in RN engagement ranges. And to make matters worse, her 15 gun privileges is negated by having zero stopping power, because the 8.5s reload i feel has less effective firepower than twelve 7.5s reload guns firing at the same range.

Given that Helena has to close to more than a kilometer just to be effective in a camping engagement than her nearest contemporary Fiji, without smoke or torps. Helena, like pre-buff Cleveland leaves much to be desired in either

A) increased range to 15.6km

Or

B) increase RoF to 7.5s: 6.5 prefered.

6.5s reload would give Helena, the stopping power torpedo a less brawler would need to put the fear in the hearts of the enemy. 

Right now, any bb any tier or caliber can casually waltz up to Helena and simply blap her when friendly bbs sit comfortably at their effective combat ranges.

Right now, Helena looks competitive, sounds competitive, but is anything but Competitive; longer range or faster reload will change that.

That's an accurate assessment of her flaws.  While I would fully welcome a buff to RoF (since loosing HP for Terms of Enrampagement to kick in isn't always fun) increased range without a buff to shell speed would not be terribly useful.  Even at her current limits, engaging cruiser sized targets that are evading isn't easy, most 203 CA's that know what they are about can kite you to death.  To be fair though I think Cleveland also shares many of the same issues only with Tier VIII MM and Maps.  Still when you can pick your engagements I find Helena is a hoot.

As for the hull number its actually a custom skin, if your are interested check my thread:

 

Edited by TheStarSlayer
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30 minutes ago, TheStarSlayer said:

That's an accurate assessment of her flaws.  While I would fully welcome a buff to RoF (since loosing HP for Terms of Enrampagement to kick in isn't always fun) increased range without a buff to shell speed would not be terribly useful.  Even at her current limits, engaging cruiser sized targets that are evading isn't easy, most 203 CA's that know what they are about can kite you to death.  To be fair though I think Cleveland also shares many of the same issues only with Tier VIII MM and Maps.  Still when you can pick your engagements I find Helena is a hoot.

As for the hull number its actually a custom skin, if your are interested check my thread:

 

Oh, indeed i know about the orbital shell drag too well, the need for 15.6km range is to deal with those reversahollic bbs on the red team.  I find in cruisers, if an advantage in damage isnt dealt with fast enough on a particular flank, friendly bbs either will flee or dig in and reverse. Helena, with her very short effective range has to commit befor the bbs can commit to influence the flank. This is where my gripe with the 8.5s reload comed from. Without torpedoes, your just being a nuisance, that can be shot by any usn or rn bb while you shoot stationary behind that island because the arcs of the trio match. And even when you can shoot over that island and they cant shoit back, a low health bb can rush you and kill you because he's bow on to your bb buddies and Helena is stuck behimd that island.

RoF, lots of it is needed to stop bbs, be they moving or otherwise. Against cruisers and dds, you can play the stealth game all day. but its the early battle where the flow of flanks and caps is most imperative. But right now, with that low RoF and abysmal range and frailty, Helena cant influence that flow of battle the way that she needs to be.

Btw

Thanks for the Helena skin

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On 6/28/2018 at 10:50 AM, TheStarSlayer said:

Funny I ended up reading Neptune's Inferno and Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors in chronological order.  So when I picked up Last Stand, I suddenly realized Bob Hagen had a very, very busy war.

Helena will definitely have some matches where she is a square peg in the round hole, but I think overall  at tier VII she will probably get Maps and Teams that fit her attributes more often than not.

 

If you haven't done so already, I highly recommend "Japanese Destroyer Captain" by Hara Tameichi.  A lot of his combat experience was in the region of Guadalcanal and the Solomon Islands area, back when the Japanese and the Allies were spear fishing for each other in those waters.  You may hopefully find it interesting due to his POV.  He wasn't some Admiral sitting in a big fat Battleship doing nothing, he had tons of combat experience with the Destroyers when sh*t was real in the waters around Guadalcanal.

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