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MackDye

Arsenal Launch Feedback

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Yo Devs, 

 

When you implement a grindy feature meant to keep people online and playing everyday you might want to take a tip from the drug dealers and other entertainment companies. THE FIRST HIT IS FREE AND STRONG!! 

I was expecting to log in this morning to some new goodies from the Arsenal like oh maybe a Musashi. Yeah right. I'm nowhere even close. So now the arsenal feature is a complete dud. So now all the excitement i had for the arsenal is just gone and now I dont see it as worth getting excited for in the future. I''m less likely to keep premium account because i don't see the benefits of it because its still going to take forever to get anything out of the arsenal that is actually worth it. 

Maybe i'm reacting to only half the information. I hope thats the case and there will be tons of missions every week to boost the coal totals in addition to the daily crates. If missions will be sparse and daily crates are the main way of getting coal then the arsenal will be a complete dud of a feature.

On a positive note thanks for the two radar premium upgrades. Those will come in handy for this season of clan battles. Its all i could get with the lousy oil x 5 "reward for past play". That modifier should have been much larger for us long term vets of the game.

 

I know some people will see this as a "entitled whine post" but its really not. Its constructive criticism. I didnt just whine. I state why its bad and what it makes people feel like and how that translates to less players/money for their cause. I also stated how to do it correctly next time. 

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It's all part of the business plan. They actually think they can turn this population of casual players into gamers, and all they do is drive players away.....:Smile_amazed:

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The problem with your drug dealer analogy is, you are already an addict (so to speak).  They don't have to get you hooked, they just have to keep you hooked.  Adding little things like this just keeps that addiction strong and healthy.

If you seriously expected to log in and get a high tier premium for basically free, that is your issue and you aren't thinking straight.  You have 6.5k battles and expect a Musashi....what would you think that people with 16.5k battles should get?  Everything free?  Longtime players get the benefit of being here a long time already - having access to multiple free premiums, having access to coal longer than others, etc.  People seem to forget those benefits when things like this come across - forget the fact that you are already ahead by virtue of being here longer.

2 cents.

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13 minutes ago, MackDye said:

I know some people will see this as a "entitled whine post" but its really not.

Um... actually it is. 

 

14 minutes ago, MackDye said:

Its all i could get with the lousy oil x 5 "reward for past play". That modifier should have been much larger for us long term vets of the game.

If this isn't an entitled appeal to privilege, I don't know what is. You knew what the modifier was going to be before today, as well as the ship prices; you should have known exactly what was coming and what you could or couldn't get.

 

17 minutes ago, MackDye said:

Maybe i'm reacting to only half the information

You most certainly are.

18 minutes ago, MackDye said:

I hope thats the case and there will be tons of missions every week to boost the coal totals in addition to the daily crates. If missions will be sparse and daily crates are the main way of getting coal then the arsenal will be a complete dud of a feature.

With this, I agree completely. Give it a patch to sort itself out; then complain.

18 minutes ago, MackDye said:

So now the arsenal feature is a complete dud. So now all the excitement i had for the arsenal is just gone and now I dont see it as worth getting excited for in the future.

You didn't get what you thought you were entitled to RIGHT AWAY, and now you're throwing a hissy fit. Way to go. Not.

 

19 minutes ago, MackDye said:

I''m less likely to keep premium account because i don't see the benefits of it because its still going to take forever to get anything out of the arsenal that is actually worth it. 

I don't see what the two have to do with each other. You get faster advancement through the grinds, and more XP and free XP per game than a non-premium player. That's a shorter route to your Musashi the other way. As for it taking forever to get anything out of the Arsenal, let me remind you:

1) I have heard that the Arsenal ships are going to rotate.

2) This implies that the potential rate of coal acquisition must be fairly high in order to get to the more expensive ships before they leave.

You bought premium time before because you wanted certain benefits. You will still be getting those benefits. Not getting what you wanted out of the Arsenal is not a reason to stop that, unless you think threatening WG with the withdrawal of your money is mature and reasonable behaviour. It's not; it's vile, entitled and toxic.

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9 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

The problem with your drug dealer analogy is, you are already an addict (so to speak).  They don't have to get you hooked, they just have to keep you hooked.  Adding little things like this just keeps that addiction strong and healthy.

If you seriously expected to log in and get a high tier premium for basically free, that is your issue and you aren't thinking straight.  You have 6.5k battles and expect a Musashi....what would you think that people with 16.5k battles should get?  Everything free?  Longtime players get the benefit of being here a long time already - having access to multiple free premiums, having access to coal longer than others, etc.  People seem to forget those benefits when things like this come across - forget the fact that you are already ahead by virtue of being here longer.

2 cents.

Someone did the math on how long it would take to grind out something like the Stalingrad outside of the clan battle rewards, and it was enough that pretty much no clanless player will ever realistically see that ship in their own port.  Things like that demotivate casual players who make up the largest portion of the playerbase, and cause them to give up trying or even drives them away completely.

 

WG was given a lot of feedback regarding the arsenal before now, and they chose to ignore it because they're desperate to turn the game into some serious grindy e-sport type of thing.

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The problem is the Arsenal and how it is designed with the gated rewards that are NOT purely cosmetic, it is the antithesis to the foundations of the F2P Model... which WoWs is.

Unless they add other methods to obtain Steel, like Campaigns and the Premium shop... it is likely to drive many paying players away and bite the hand that feeds. Without the whales, WoWs does not exist. Without Ranked...CBs...Arsenal... WoWs still exists.

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1 minute ago, Deno said:

no clanless player will ever realistically see that ship in their own port

Some of us don't even want her. Mind you, given the fact that they're running two different versions trying to get the balance right, what you're seeing right now might be very different from what you eventually get - and what you eventually get may not be desirable.

3 minutes ago, Deno said:

Things like that demotivate casual players who...

...want something big and powerful that they can take out, go click-bang, and wipe stuff off the map without trying, IMO.

4 minutes ago, Deno said:

WG was given a lot of feedback regarding the arsenal before now, and they chose to ignore it because they're...

...experienced businessmen who know what they're doing (they've been doing it for three years now), and who aren't going to listen to the screams and cries of spoiled children who want everything yesterday.

 

Come back in a month when we know a lot more about coal and steel drop rates, and we can talk.

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2 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Some of us don't even want her. Mind you, given the fact that they're running two different versions trying to get the balance right, what you're seeing right now might be very different from what you eventually get - and what you eventually get may not be desirable.

...want something big and powerful that they can take out, go click-bang, and wipe stuff off the map without trying, IMO.

...experienced businessmen who know what they're doing (they've been doing it for three years now), and who aren't going to listen to the screams and cries of spoiled children who want everything yesterday.

 

Come back in a month when we know a lot more about coal and steel drop rates, and we can talk.

Experience =/= Intelligence. The Arsenal, and the gated rewards are completely contradictory to the business model WG employs and antithesis to the requirements for success of it.

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4 minutes ago, zarth12 said:

Unless they add other methods to obtain Steel, like Campaigns and the Premium shop... it is likely to drive many paying players away and bite the hand that feeds.

I agree completely, whether the players are paying or not. Buying stuff doesn't entitle you to special privileges in this game.

However, other methods WERE hinted at in what we were told so far, so I am remaining cautiously optimistic and awaiting details.

I don't want to see steel being able to be purchased, except perhaps in small chunks as part of a one-per-player ship package that cannot be spam-bought for the steel content. The steel ships are AFAIK supposed to be earned through diligent and/or excellent play, not bought by people with far more money than sense.

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1 minute ago, zarth12 said:

the gated rewards

Gated in what fashion? Something other than money? Is that what's upsetting you? 

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Just now, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I agree completely, whether the players are paying or not. Buying stuff doesn't entitle you to special privileges in this game.

However, other methods WERE hinted at in what we were told so far, so I am remaining cautiously optimistic and awaiting details.

I don't want to see steel being able to be purchased, except perhaps in small chunks as part of a one-per-player ship package that cannot be spam-bought for the steel content. The steel ships are AFAIK supposed to be earned through diligent and/or excellent play, not bought by people with far more money than sense.

Except that is Wargamings fault for making the gated reward "to be earned through diligent and/or excellent play" a completely unique T10 ship instead of something purely cosmetic, or even a valid compromise like Salem. Pandoras box is open, you can't just close it. It is contradictory to the F2P business model, pay to progress, pay to unlock the gate.
The game does not exist without the whales.
 

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Just now, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Gated in what fashion? Something other than money? Is that what's upsetting you? 

Nope. That is not what gated means.
It is akin to a completely new archetype locked behind time restricted content that requires you to achieve a rank as well as complete missions that require said rank to be reached.
It is self explanatory when the most successful games employing the same business model have all of their competitive rewards 100% cosmetic.

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35 minutes ago, MackDye said:

I was expecting to log in this morning to some new goodies from the Arsenal like oh maybe a Musashi.

That was a pretty unrealistic expectation.

 

11 minutes ago, Deno said:

Someone did the math on how long it would take to grind out something like the Stalingrad outside of the clan battle rewards, and it was enough that pretty much no clanless player will ever realistically see that ship in their own port.

It's a fair certainty in virtual economies that things get cheaper and more accessible over time. Two recent examples: Indianapolis used to be a $30 premium ship, now a free mission reward ship. Musashi used to require 750,000 Free XP, now also has a 176,000 coal option.

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8 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

...experienced businessmen who know what they're doing (they've been doing it for three years now), and who aren't going to listen to the screams and cries of spoiled children who want everything yesterday.

 

well, 'experienced' and 'good' are not synonymous, but be that as it may, the second part of your statement describes clan battles players perfectly. I play with several who are ranked/clan battles try hard, I personally don't bother, who constantly whine that they deserve to be rewarded with something extra special because of how much effort they put in. You know what they all sound like in Discord? How did you put it? Oh yeah, "cries of spoiled children who want everything yesterday".

For some reason these players feel entitled to exclusive access to an unarguably over powered ship so they can, how did you put it? Oh yeah, "...want something big and powerful that they can take out, go click-bang, and wipe stuff off the map without trying, IMO." They feel if they don't get the most biggest, stonkest ship that the plebs can't get, they are not being sufficiently rewarded for their try-harding.

As others have pointed out, these types of moves where the majority of your player base, which is stagnant at best, have no chance of obtaining the good stuff, they WILL get disillusioned and stop playing.

If WG wanted to give out a collectible ship that was not so blatantly and stupidly over-powered, sure, but this is just BAD business.

Good luck and fair seas

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13 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Musashi used to require 750,000 Free XP, now also has a 176,000 coal option.

How long will it take for the average player to obtain either 750k free xp or 176k coal?

You get free xp every game you play.

Coal only from containers, 3 a day outside of missions or other special events.

Do the math and see if it is really cheaper.

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14 minutes ago, Zapp_Branigan said:

outside of missions or other special events.

Do the math and see if it is really cheaper.

The fact that we haven't seen special coal events yet means there is no math to do.

However, being able to get it for FXP OR coal is by definition a relaxing of the requirements, compared to FXP ONLY.

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16 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

The fact that we haven't seen special coal events yet means there is no math to do.

However, being able to get it for FXP OR coal is by definition a relaxing of the requirements, compared to FXP ONLY.

The 'fact' is that there is math to do as the rate at which one can earn free xp and coal is not at a fixed rate.

Offering an alternate route to fulfilling the requirements is not by definition a relaxing of the requirements. If the new alternate path is more difficult, less accessible, which the math would tell us, then how are the requirements relaxed?

Good luck and fair seas!

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24 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

The fact that we haven't seen special coal events yet means there is no math to do.

However, being able to get it for FXP OR coal is by definition a relaxing of the requirements, compared to FXP ONLY.

 

This ^

They have already stated there will be other means to earning these currencies in other game modes.

Edited by RipNuN2

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The frustrations are understandable. Having said that, they are based on too small of a data set. We really need to see drop rates/mission quantity/etc.. before we decide to start flipping tables. 

Let's wait and see what happens after a little bit of time. Without more information, all people are doing is complaining about what is wrong rather than being able to provide WG with solutions on how to fix it.

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18 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

This ^

No! Not 'this'.

There is math to do; how much free xp will you earn per match, which depends on how much damage you do, do you win the match, are you running flags. ALL of those are variables which determine how much free xp you can potentially earn.

As for 'earning these other currencies in other game modes', there are variables associated with those as well; coal in crates is a variable based on the rng of the contents of your crates.

If any further explanation as to why 'math' is needed, I hope you are not an engineer designing bridges.

Good luck and fair seas!

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33 minutes ago, Zapp_Branigan said:

The 'fact' is that there is math to do as the rate at which one can earn free xp and coal is not at a fixed rate.

Models without data are a waste of time at best, lies at worst. I refuse.

There is no data on how much coal will be given out through missions, thus there is no basis for extrapolation. Once we start seeing the weekly and monthly coal-bearing missions, we'll have something to go on.

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9 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Models without data are a waste of time at best, lies at worst. I refuse.

There is no data on how much coal will be given out through missions, thus there is no basis for extrapolation. Once we start seeing the weekly and monthly coal-bearing missions, we'll have something to go on.

To say there is no math is demonstrably wrong. Just because you don't have all the information to perform the calculations does not mean there is no math. I assure you that WG has the numbers on average free xp earned etc., and has done some math to come up with their numbers as to cost of Arsenal items.

This entire game is based on math.

Good luck and fair seas!

Edited by Zapp_Branigan

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1 hour ago, zarth12 said:

The problem is the Arsenal and how it is designed with the gated rewards that are NOT purely cosmetic, it is the antithesis to the foundations of the F2P Model... which WoWs is.

Unless they add other methods to obtain Steel, like Campaigns and the Premium shop... it is likely to drive many paying players away and bite the hand that feeds. Without the whales, WoWs does not exist. Without Ranked...CBs...Arsenal... WoWs still exists.

I rarely agree with you, zarth.  Like, never.  But I think you may have a point here.  Still considering it.

 

One thing that does *not* bother me is access to reward ships controlled by Steel and Arsenal.  (As I've said elsewhere, I couldn't get those ships before and I can't get them now.  Meh.) 

Steel enables incremental rewards rather than "the whole thing or nothing" so now one might earn a Black (e.g.) for something other than ranking out.  That sounds good, maybe.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Zapp_Branigan said:

I hope you are not an engineer designing bridges.

 

Umm, engineers don't build bridges using incomplete data.

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Today on Baby Boomer posting: "Why didn't I get a free Musashi just for existing? I'm gonna not spend any money until I get something free because I didn't read the patch notes"

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