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Herr_Reitz

Just how much will RNG affect your game?

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Let's presume I know how to aim the guns on my Tirpitz. Right now I'm at 50.0% win rate, avg destroy 1.68 and that's over 638 battles. Average. But that's not the issue. 

When I aim those main batteries ahead of a ship by eight seconds, the red ship slows and I see the entire salvo fall BEHIND the red ship, there's a problem. I propose it's not my aim but something to do with the draw/refresh, something. It isn't every salvo either. It happens once, but never twice in a row. 

So can RNG monkey with your shots that much? I want to say no, it can't.If it isn't RNG then is it related to the drawing issue? As in the ship is late in being drawn at it's correct position? 

I'm also noticing the long-known issue of drawing targets... it seems it happens to me but not to the reds firing at me. Most likely because my concealment isn't as good as theirs, granted. But at a ten km range, other than a dd, you'd expect a ship in the open to be visible.

I know they are working on the redraw issue - but has anyone heard of an expected fix date? Just curious. 

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RNG affects where your shells will fall within a pre-set area determined by your dispersion envelope and the range to target. Sigma affects the pattern within that area. Every shell gets its own dispersion calculation. Since the law of averages exists, over any given salvo, chances are very low for all shells to tend to one side of the dispersion ellipse.

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I've noticed it happened a lot more lately, and it's beginning to get really absurd.

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In your case, you aimed wrong. Even at maximum range, your horizontal dispersion envelope is not that much larger than the enemy ship (lengthwise) - most misses are due to vertical dispersion against broadside targets. If you aimed too far forwards, your shells will never land behind the enemy ship unless it is a DD (small size). 

Maybe you were using the 20-knot lead reticule and the ship slowed from 30 knots to 25 knots. 

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Wg will never admit the game is not working as intended. They will send in the Forum Kronies to qoute sigma and dispersion and game mech. RNG is never wrong and the ships are rendered at the right speed. Your computer is messed up your ISP is wacked. The knutten valve is under duress, your draggin wire stopped draggin, the nut behind the wheel is loose. WG makes every game mode perfect and every game Fair and Balanced.

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12 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

Wg will never admit the game is not working as intended. They will send in the Forum Kronies to qoute sigma and dispersion and game mech. RNG is never wrong and the ships are rendered at the right speed. Your computer is messed up your ISP is wacked. The knutten valve is under duress, your draggin wire stopped draggin, the nut behind the wheel is loose. WG makes every game mode perfect and every game Fair and Balanced.

Apparently understanding game mechanics (and making an effort to do so) makes me a 'Forum Kronie' ...

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1 minute ago, Lert said:

Apparently understanding game mechanics (and making an effort to do so) makes me a 'Forum Kronie' ...

If the shoe fits

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41 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Let's presume I know how to aim the guns on my Tirpitz. Right now I'm at 50.0% win rate, avg destroy 1.68 and that's over 638 battles. Average. But that's not the issue. 

When I aim those main batteries ahead of a ship by eight seconds, the red ship slows and I see the entire salvo fall BEHIND the red ship, there's a problem. I propose it's not my aim but something to do with the draw/refresh, something. It isn't every salvo either. It happens once, but never twice in a row. 

So can RNG monkey with your shots that much? I want to say no, it can't.If it isn't RNG then is it related to the drawing issue? As in the ship is late in being drawn at it's correct position? 

I'm also noticing the long-known issue of drawing targets... it seems it happens to me but not to the reds firing at me. Most likely because my concealment isn't as good as theirs, granted. But at a ten km range, other than a dd, you'd expect a ship in the open to be visible.

I know they are working on the redraw issue - but has anyone heard of an expected fix date? Just curious. 

The drawing issue is real. I see it every day. There is never a case where i see an enemy before he sees me when i approach within our guaranteed spotting range. I get the detection icon see the ship drawn on minimap, see shots in bound then the ship draws. WG said they would address it, but if i remember correctly the purple comrades complained against the fix because they know how to exploit the flaw (the shots arrive before the ship draws). Love to see quotes indicating this is not the case.

Edited by monpetitloup

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This was the last official post. Note date, yet tomorrow marks two updates and the issue persists.

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Dear commanders!

As you already know, we are evaluating a fix for the ship rendering issue as part of 0.7.4 public test. The deal is, that the ships may appear in the 3D world with a 2-3 second delay after they appear on the minimap, or even after ships’ accompanying effects (funnel smoke, as an example) are rendered. This is dependent on the server and game client interaction. The server informs the client that a ship is spotted and then the client interprets that data and shows that ship on the minimap as well as a 3D model with its effects. As a result several factors influence the rendering process – game optimization and environment in which it is ran –players’ PC configuration, their connection quality and stability.

We had to collect as much data and feedback as possible during the public test, so we could be sure about our solution. As expected, the 3D models did in fact appear simultaneously with the effects and minimap icons, however, in some cases, the information could lack in timeliness and actuality by the moment it was displayed. And from the gameplay perspective this is undesirable side effect.

That’s why for the second session of our public test we improved upon the solution that you’ve seen. The rendering of models and effects now happens at the same time, but the minimap display is working the same way it did in the 0.7.3 version. This fix only takes care of a part of the issue, yet it does not create any unwanted side effects. If it shows stability during the public test and causes no further issues, that is exactly the way we’re going to implement it into the update.

We are already working on the optimization of ships’, effects rendering and minimap display as a complex, to absolutely minimize any delays between these instances. We plan the next round of fixes in a few updates, and just like before, we will be very appreciative of your feedback. 

Thank you for your understanding!:Smile_great:

Edited by monpetitloup

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I had a battle in my Colorado where I unloaded into a full broadside Gneis at 10k away and every shell either landed to his left or right.

He even said in chat he couldn't believe every shell missed.

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39 minutes ago, Lert said:

Apparently understanding game mechanics (and making an effort to do so) makes me a 'Forum Kronie' ...

Nah; you were a "Forum Kronie" long before you understood the game mechanics. Revel in your knowledge of the dark and mysterious! I mean, that's why you can turn yourself into a cat, isn't it?

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35 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

If the shoe fits

Lert knows more about this game than you do. We don't need your attatude. 

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RNG is the bane of many games, but sadly it is the only system many developers have in the tool box at the moment. Are there games out there that do not use it sure, but the game itself has a lot to do if RNG is needed or not. If RNG was not used in WoWs you would see top players with great aim blowing up others in one shot after one shot. They do that now a lot, just think if there was no RNG. 

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While frustrating at times it has its place in the game. Like steelclaw said many of us with non-alien accuracy would be pummeled by the top players.

 

I know some of you won't admit this but there have been several times where I totally whiff on a shot. Either too much lead or making a wrong prediction or whatever. And one completely random shell way outside the main grouping hits citadel. And much more often I will screw up a shot and still get a few pens for some damage. My point is RNG does go both ways and I have come to accept when it helps me and when it hurts me.

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1 hour ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

Wg will never admit the game is not working as intended. They will send in the Forum Kronies to qoute sigma and dispersion and game mech. RNG is never wrong and the ships are rendered at the right speed. Your computer is messed up your ISP is wacked. The knutten valve is under duress, your draggin wire stopped draggin, the nut behind the wheel is loose. WG makes every game mode perfect and every game Fair and Balanced.

Sad but true words...

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54 minutes ago, ASR37 said:

While frustrating at times it has its place in the game. Like steelclaw said many of us with non-alien accuracy would be pummeled by the top players.

 

I know some of you won't admit this but there have been several times where I totally whiff on a shot. Either too much lead or making a wrong prediction or whatever. And one completely random shell way outside the main grouping hits citadel. And much more often I will screw up a shot and still get a few pens for some damage. My point is RNG does go both ways and I have come to accept when it helps me and when it hurts me.

And, if every shot went exactly where aimed without RNG, your aim would need to be perfect every time.  Every round would go to exactly the same spot causing it to be a miss if not aimed properly, or a devastating strike if it was.  There would be no in between.  Angled shots could be all bounces, or all pens depending on the angle.

RNG for dispersion does have its place.  Sometimes it does seem to troll us, though.

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If shells are falling behind the ship either

1. you have a bad connection

2. You aimed poorly.

3. You computer is not up to snuff.

4. The ship changed speeds without you noticing.

 

On the other topic of RNG,

RNG stands for Rigged number generator.   Log on one night in a bb and not get a single citadel in 6-7 games with countless perfect broadsides on cruisers and bb's alike.   Log off, Log on the next night and  in the same ship your getting 5-7 citadels game after game on worse shots, situations and at angles that make you  go wth?!   Then you see this week after week month after month, it's not a random phenomenon it's how the developers designed the game.    Unfortunately this can screw you enjoyment factor however there are some triggers that cause you to be rigged (which is partly the reason why the developers make it rigged, aka things they don't want you doing) as well as sometimes your on the good side of the rigging (which was instituted to hook people onto their game).   

Like it or hate it, it's really shady practices but the people must know!

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2 hours ago, Murcc said:

And, if every shot went exactly where aimed without RNG, your aim would need to be perfect every time.  Every round would go to exactly the same spot causing it to be a miss if not aimed properly, or a devastating strike if it was.  There would be no in between.  Angled shots could be all bounces, or all pens depending on the angle.

RNG for dispersion does have its place.  Sometimes it does seem to troll us, though.

Thing is, I've said for like ages, I don't want it totally removed... I want it's effect halved. The pendulum is swinging so far from side to side these days as to create unrealistic factors of "chance". 

It won't happen of course, but it would be interesting to see how it played out. 

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That's the thing about random.  You have no control over it.  Think about dice rolls using 2 dice where a 7 is a shot close to center and every number farther from 7 gets you farther from center.  The chances of rolling a 7 are 6/36.  It doesn't mean you will roll a 7 every time.  You could still go on long runs of rolling 11s, even though statistically that one is only a 2/36 chance.  The 11 would represent a big error from center.  A bunch of 11's in the same series of rolls would represent a big miss on all shots.  On other rolls, you might get a big series of 7's, 8's , 9's, etc., which would bring the statistics back to expected average.  The only ones we remember are the big run of 11's because they were so bad.

I've had some big misses too, where I shake my head.  Usually it isn't front to back on broadside shots.  Those are usually a misjudge of ship movements due to acceleration and slowing.  My big RNG misses come from half my shots going over the top of the ship, and half going near side of the ship, for 0 hits.  Those are the ones I shake my head at, especially when a ship is 12km or less.  Then, on other shots, my grouping is so tight, I can hardly tell the individual rounds apart.

Halving RNG dispersion would be the same as increasing the sigma value.  Essentially, that is what sigma is, an increased chance that a shot will be more center within the grouping.  We already know the effect that has on certain ships.  It makes them very powerful in the right hands.  We don't want to get the sigma value too high on any ships.

 

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