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Capt_h2o

Tier 10 changes to help MM

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I know, it's a dead horse but I'm going to beat it some more

The uptiering of T8 boats into T10 matches seems the norm now, and it's really not fair to the players that are grinding out T8's to get  T9's. Why can't T10's battle with 9 or 10 boats? Or give an option to be uptiered if the player wishes too otherwise they can just wait to fill a T8 battle. 

Both my kids have stopped playing because after T5 they felt like the game was against them, they stopped having fun and we're killed so fast that they learned nothing. There has to be a way to keep the game fun for new players, uptiered in a new boat with limited experience isn't good for the player base. The "old" player base doesn't want potatoes in the higher tiers, then why does the game uptier them into tiers they don't even have boats for? 

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What you say makes sense. Unfortunately there seems to be a desire to feed easy kills to tier 10 players. The only thing one can do is persevere and see what works (Usually it’s island hugging when bottom tier). However it is true that it gets old after a while and it being a game is logical that players leave when they no longer enjoy themselves. I really dont see why they dont just make tier 10 exclusive or at the very least 9-10 only, there is no need for them to see lower tiers. So far there has been no acknowledgement of the issue so we can only hope something will be done.

Edited by monpetitloup
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I understand the problem, but I don't think cutting down on players is the first step they should take.

I think MM needs to learn to wait. Lets say 1 is lowest tier, 2 is medium tier and 3 highest tier. I think battles are still all right when:

  • Mainly 1 is present and a bit of 2 and 3.
  • Mainly 2 is present and a bit of 1 and 3.

Battles are wrong when:

  • Mainly 3 is present and a bit of 1 and 2.
  • Mainly 2 and 3 are present and a bit of 1.

A bit means 1 - 2 ships per team. 

Adding this mechanic to MM will increase waiting time. By how much who knows. I doubt it will be much when there are many people online. The way it is now does suck indeed and I can understand it is not fun at all when you are not familiar with the basics. That is also another issue WG needs to solve.

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I was certainly no fan of uptiered play last night in a stock Gadjah as 1 of 2 T7s in a T9 romp.

But... it happens. Sometimes you're the bug, sometimes the windshield.

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That's just how match making was designed.

T7's will get with T9's

T6's will get with T8's...

 

I mean.. it's just how it is.

 

When the playerbase late at night get's below 6,000. The MM becomes utter crap. I quit playing for the night once it reaches 6,000. 

 

Sure I have 9's and 10's.. it's just how the match making can get that late. 

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It's the worst when you've just unlocked a ship and it's still stock and you get uptiered.  Given I play multiple lines, I ended up unlocking a bunch of ships in short order.  Such that I didn't have credits for upgrades.  Playing a stock bote in bottom tier is painful.  

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Question, if I take, as an example, a T6 and they take T8's will it put them in T8 or uptier my T6 with them to T9 and T10? That might be a fix for them. 

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2 minutes ago, Capt_h2o said:

Question, if I take, as an example, a T6 and they take T8's will it put them in T8 or uptier my T6 with them to T9 and T10? That might be a fix for them. 

No, you don't get to abuse the system like that. Matchmaking works off the highest tier in the division, and you can only have a tier variance of 1.

Them telling you that they die too fast to learn anything is garbage. Every time you die, you can learn from that death, because you know exactly what led up to it. The game even allows you to continue viewing the same game, where you can follow other player perspectives. Plenty of media resources provided by WG and contributors to get a leg up on mechanics.

Sink or Swim, succeed or fail. Rise above a challenge or allow yourself to be beaten by it.

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1 hour ago, Capt_h2o said:

Both my kids have stopped playing because after T5 they felt like the game was against them, they stopped having fun and we're killed so fast that they learned nothing. There has to be a way to keep the game fun for new players, uptiered in a new boat with limited experience isn't good for the player base. The "old" player base doesn't want potatoes in the higher tiers, then why does the game uptier them into tiers they don't even have boats for? 

This is the issue, players like to blame the MMK for their own mistakes. You/your kids are not dying fast because you were botton tier in a battle, you were dying fast because you made mistakes, it was your falut that you died and not the tie rof the ship. Changing the MM wont change that, wont make you play better because the issue is the player and not the MM or the tier.

 

I know this might seems harsh, but its the truth, players like to blame the MM for their own mistakes and poor gameplay. Change the MM wont change the fact that you made a mistake and got punished for that, and this will happen no matte rif you are top or botton tier, other players will punish your mistakes. 

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Yeah..  The only T7 cruiser in a T9 battle, heavy with battleships.

So I hit the 'S' button at spawn....  "I'll watch the 1 line..  OK?  You folks have fun."

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1 hour ago, Pulicat said:

No, you don't get to abuse the system like that. Matchmaking works off the highest tier in the division, and you can only have a tier variance of 1.

Them telling you that they die too fast to learn anything is garbage. Every time you die, you can learn from that death, because you know exactly what led up to it. The game even allows you to continue viewing the same game, where you can follow other player perspectives. Plenty of media resources provided by WG and contributors to get a leg up on mechanics.

Sink or Swim, succeed or fail. Rise above a challenge or allow yourself to be beaten by it.

Attitude like that is what keeps new players from starting or staying to learn how to play the game, so you will be playing with yourself soon, but I also expect you have years of experience doing that!

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37 minutes ago, Pulicat said:

No, you don't get to abuse the system like that. Matchmaking works off the highest tier in the division, and you can only have a tier variance of 1.

Them telling you that they die too fast to learn anything is garbage. Every time you die, you can learn from that death, because you know exactly what led up to it. The game even allows you to continue viewing the same game, where you can follow other player perspectives. Plenty of media resources provided by WG and contributors to get a leg up on mechanics.

Sink or Swim, succeed or fail. Rise above a challenge or allow yourself to be beaten by it.

33 minutes ago, Xlap said:

This is the issue, players like to blame the MMK for their own mistakes. You/your kids are not dying fast because you were botton tier in a battle, you were dying fast because you made mistakes, it was your falut that you died and not the tie rof the ship. Changing the MM wont change that, wont make you play better because the issue is the player and not the MM or the tier.

I know this might seems harsh, but its the truth, players like to blame the MM for their own mistakes and poor gameplay. Change the MM wont change the fact that you made a mistake and got punished for that, and this will happen no matte rif you are top or botton tier, other players will punish your mistakes. 

I liked this point of view. The knowledge about game mecanics and current ship tactics could result more than any limitations of MM (Limits will only decrease the variability of battles, and other thing will stay the same). There are numerous videos and guides to watch. Of course you need practice. But without information you'll need some more time and the results could be not so good. 
Coop is a safe place to practice too, that's the option to upgrade your ship before going to random. I've bought Edinburg without making elite my previous ships. Even sometimes without some modernisations. And the statistic is not bad I hope.  

 

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40 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

Yeah..  The only T7 cruiser in a T9 battle, heavy with battleships.

So I hit the 'S' button at spawn....  "I'll watch the 1 line..  OK?  You folks have fun."

That's a great idea, do enough not to be afk and go afk!

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Wasn't clan battles in tanks tier gated? Isn't ranked tier gated here, or team-battles(both)?

Or is team battles not a thing anymore?

I reckon this one's on WG whenever they want to get their collective S together.

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More XP, more damage. I love the challenge of making the most of being bottom-tiered. Especially rewarding when you're top of the leaderboard. Maybe the kids should stick to PvE? Or if they really want to play multiplayer, actually put some thought and research into the game?

This isn't Fort***e where you just drop in and shoot at stuff. I enjoy the level of thought that goes into the game. If it means people getting turned off for not wanting to put effort into learning, so be it.

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16 minutes ago, Capt_h2o said:

Attitude like that is what keeps new players from starting or staying to learn how to play the game, so you will be playing with yourself soon, but I also expect you have years of experience doing that!

The main point here is not only about years of experience. If you want to have a good practice, you look for options. We are working on good ingame guides and tips, but there are pleanty of them for seeker.
Info about MM you can find here.  

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have you been out tonight and seen the cleveland paired with his two tier 7 buddies and getting into tier X matches.

GG. was close.

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I am playing thru the Richelieu and I am not seeing huge amount of up tiering. Probably just over half the battles are up tiered and  can do very well in them if I play rather smart (every now and then).  Otherwise I have mostly average games and a few really bad ones.   You can do very well in up tired games if they are played with a bit of caution.  In reality - the server would probably need 10-15K more players playing random games to really get to a possibility of decent MM at higher tiers.

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I find that being the T8 potato in a T10-heavy battle makes me pay more attention to the subtleties of the game; watching the mini, making sure I'm angled properly, more selective about who/when I fire and what type of shell I'm using. I didn't get good at chess, baseball, or anything else for that matter, playing only opponents at my level. 

Edited by Tom_Greg

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3 hours ago, Capt_h2o said:

I know, it's a dead horse but I'm going to beat it some more

The uptiering of T8 boats into T10 matches seems the norm now, and it's really not fair to the players that are grinding out T8's to get  T9's. Why can't T10's battle with 9 or 10 boats? Or give an option to be uptiered if the player wishes too otherwise they can just wait to fill a T8 battle. 

Both my kids have stopped playing because after T5 they felt like the game was against them, they stopped having fun and we're killed so fast that they learned nothing. There has to be a way to keep the game fun for new players, uptiered in a new boat with limited experience isn't good for the player base. The "old" player base doesn't want potatoes in the higher tiers, then why does the game uptier them into tiers they don't even have boats for? 

I totally agree, it would be nice if MM was just 25% up tiered and 75% same tier battles as of now it’s opposite for me with some ships even being in the 90% up tiered 

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1 hour ago, Capt_h2o said:

Attitude like that is what keeps new players from starting or staying to learn how to play the game, so you will be playing with yourself soon, but I also expect you have years of experience doing that!

 

1 hour ago, Capt_h2o said:

That's a great idea, do enough not to be afk and go afk!

Zero contribution and an endorsement of quitting on your team by another player, having players with your attitude in battle is worse than being bottom in MM. 

The whole point of a tiered system is to drive people to get  to tier 10, where they are always top tier.  Wargaming took pity on low tier players having to get zapped in a tier 6 game, so they made an artificial barrier that locked tiers 1-4 into no worse than a +1 tier mm, and it caused more problems than it fixed.  The same can be said for CV mechanism which forbids manual drops and fighter strafing at tier 4 and 5, which has lead to shiny new CV players getting wrecked at tier 6.  That is the price you pay for a gentler early learning curve, they won't make it +1 the whole way up, because people would stop at their favorite tiers and not grind upward anymore, and the business model is based on people grinding.

To the OP, sorry your sons quit, but as a dad of three grown sons, they stop playing things when they find something that their friends think is cool to play, not just because they got up tiered one to many times.  When my boys were still kids, they could care less about what MM happened in tanks, they just want to play and blow up stuff, winning was a nice feeling for them, but they didn't obsess over it, they just stated a new battle.  As they got older they got into different games, because that's just what they do. Why didn't you have them play co-op anyway, it's the perfect model for young kids and new players to try things?

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3 hours ago, Capt_h2o said:

Both my kids have stopped playing because after T5 they felt like the game was against them, they stopped having fun and we're killed so fast that they learned nothing. There has to be a way to keep the game fun for new players, uptiered in a new boat with limited experience isn't good for the player base. The "old" player base doesn't want potatoes in the higher tiers, then why does the game uptier them into tiers they don't even have boats for? 

well that's on your kids for not trying to learn why they are getting rekt over and over. The old player base does not want potatoes in higher tiers cuz they have no clue what they are doing. They can ruin a hard fought game with really stupid moves ie broadsiding a Yamato or Montana. T1-7 is for learning the game. T8-10 is for polishing your skills and cb + ranked is kinda the end game. ranked not as much but that's debatable. 

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1 hour ago, Capt_h2o said:

That's a great idea, do enough not to be afk and go afk!

First, I didn't down-vote you..  some other troll did.

I also play a bit of T10, and the very first targets are the easy ones..  namely the T8 cruisers.  They are low health and no heal..  so a couple salvoes and bye-bye.

In those battles, I usually see the tier 8 ships spotted first, and deleted first. 

The T8 cruisers would do their team a service by simply staying out of the battle, like as a reserve unit until things get desperate.

In the past, I would take my T8 New Orleans behind the line of DDs to radar the enemy DDs around the cap...  I usually succeeded in that effort, but got killed soon after we got it.  Makes for a short game.  Now, I will only do that if there is somewhere safe to hide from enemy fire.

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Love bring my Tier 8 DD into tier 10 battles and killing everything.  Even with all the radar.

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Add Tier XII, then that way you can hate playing Tier X in Tier XII battle like how you hate playing Tier VIII in Tier X battles. I overall enjoy the challenge it takes to overcome stronger ships.

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