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Ducky_shot

If a skill wall is bad, why isn't a pay wall equally bad?

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Many players don't like having certain premium ships behind a skill/determination wall as this is somehow bad for the game to reward those players that have dedication to the game to complete the requirements. 

So if people think that skill/determination  is an inappropriate wall, why stop at that. I will propose that if that is the thinking, that those with disposable income have an unfair advantage over those that don't. They can buy premium ships that those with low income have to hope might magically drop in a crate, just like steel... 

That's why having ships for missions and skill and determination is so great, they don't have to be bought and everyone has an equal chance at them devoid of money. I think it's a great balance. And let's face it, fxp ships are then available for those people without skill or disposable income. 

So if someone has complained about ships being locked behind a skill wall but has paid for a premium ship, they are part of the exact same fairness problem they are complaining about. 

Moral of the story? Life isn't always fair and it's going to be unfair in multiple ways. You might not like one area of unfairness while not realizing unfairness in other places. 

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Don't use your brain... you'll just attract the same entitled five to a new echo chamber.

 

Just revel in the knowledge that you paid attention when your teachers taught you critical thinking.

Edited by Spartias
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2 minutes ago, Spartias said:

Don't use your brain... you'll just attract the same entitled five to a new echo chamber.

 

Just revel in the knowledge that you paid attention when your teachers thought you critical thinking.

I'm just hoping forum karma is the next premium ship currency... :P

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9 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

Many players don't like having certain premium ships behind a skill/determination wall as this is somehow bad for the game to reward those players that have dedication to the game to complete the requirements.

 

 

Who is complaining about this exactly... besides you?

 

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4 minutes ago, MG1962 said:

Who is complaining about this exactly... besides you?

 

Look around, you can't help but find them

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Frankly I don't care. But for the sake of passing time and playing devil's advocate, here goes. Time is a currency, same as money. In games that are grind focused, many people value their time higher than money, mostly cause of job, then pay to bypass the grind. You can fork over money right now to get the Indianapolis, or grind it like the rest of us plebs.

This is at the core of most freemium games. Is it bad on the short term by introducing people at high tiers with no idea how to play a game? Definitely. Is it another income flow for WG? Damn right you are.  Skill and determination, while I feel are always welcome in such an environment, aren't always needed.

As for steel and Stalingrad and bla bla bla, I will send you a message in a few decades, when I get enough steel from the supercontainers as I don't participate much in Ranked or CB. :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by warheart1992
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28 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

So if someone has complained about ships being locked behind a skill wall but has paid for a premium ship, they are part of the exact same fairness problem they are complaining about. 

This hangs on the premise that premium ships are guaranteed pay-to-win. They are not, and the ones that potentially were have been removed from sale permanently.

If a premium ship offers anything over the tech tree, it is a more rapid advance through the grind. But a very good player who can't afford them can still beat a very good player who can.

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nevermind, not worth it.

Edited by Old_Baldy_One
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2 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

This hangs on the premise that premium ships are guaranteed pay-to-win. They are not, and the ones that potentially were have been removed from sale permanently.

If a premium ship offers anything over the tech tree, it is a more rapid advance through the grind. But a very good player who can't afford them can still beat a very good player who can.

even the ships that are "P2W" aren't really because they still loose take the belfast for example she is, in the hands of a good player, a monster but if a noob gets it he/she will be sorely disappointed with her performance.

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33 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

Many players don't like having certain premium ships behind a skill/determination wall as this is somehow bad for the game to reward those players that have dedication to the game to complete the requirements. 

So if people think that skill/determination  is an inappropriate wall, why stop at that. I will propose that if that is the thinking, that those with disposable income have an unfair advantage over those that don't. They can buy premium ships that those with low income have to hope might magically drop in a crate, just like steel... 

That's why having ships for missions and skill and determination is so great, they don't have to be bought and everyone has an equal chance at them devoid of money. I think it's a great balance. And let's face it, fxp ships are then available for those people without skill or disposable income. 

So if someone has complained about ships being locked behind a skill wall but has paid for a premium ship, they are part of the exact same fairness problem they are complaining about. 

Moral of the story? Life isn't always fair and it's going to be unfair in multiple ways. You might not like one area of unfairness while not realizing unfairness in other places. 

If a skill wall is bad, why isn't a pay wall equally bad?

Why not both?

 

I get the frustrations of people who have spent money on the game, being walled off from certain content. The be all end all for WG after all, is the bottom line on the spreadsheet.

 

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1 minute ago, Kizarvexis said:

If a skill wall is bad, why isn't a pay wall equally bad?

Why not both?

 

I get the frustrations of people who have spent money on the game, being walled off from certain content. The be all end all for WG after all, is the bottom line on the spreadsheet.

 

Woohoo, a coherent, logical argument!+

 +1 to you sir

I'd give you another +1 for rebutting your own argument but that's not possible. 

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2 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

I get the frustrations of people who have spent money on the game, being walled off from certain content.

If I'm not good enough to have ranked out/won clan battles X times, or put in a similar effort, I don't deserve the reward ship. End of story. I can live with that. Of course if they want to provide back doors to that content through a humongous grind, I'm not going to say no.

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1 minute ago, Ducky_shot said:

Woohoo, a coherent, logical argument!+

 +1 to you sir

I'd give you another +1 for rebutting your own argument but that's not possible. 

It is not rebutting the argument to say that I understand their frustrations. Empathy is a virtue.

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37 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

 

I don't really see how a premium ship being paid for is a paywall, as you can get the same ship with a different name in the tech tree more times then not and in some cases the tree ship is better than the premium.

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19 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

It is not rebutting the argument to say that I understand their frustrations. Empathy is a virtue.

With what I do for a living I lost empathy a long time ago. I'd be a mental wreck if I empathized rather than sympathized. 

Well, you noted why the paywall exists anyways.

Edited by Ducky_shot

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1 hour ago, Ducky_shot said:

Many players don't like having certain premium ships behind a skill/determination wall as this is somehow bad for the game to reward those players that have dedication to the game to complete the requirements. 

So if people think that skill/determination  is an inappropriate wall, why stop at that. I will propose that if that is the thinking, that those with disposable income have an unfair advantage over those that don't. They can buy premium ships that those with low income have to hope might magically drop in a crate, just like steel... 

That's why having ships for missions and skill and determination is so great, they don't have to be bought and everyone has an equal chance at them devoid of money. I think it's a great balance. And let's face it, fxp ships are then available for those people without skill or disposable income. 

So if someone has complained about ships being locked behind a skill wall but has paid for a premium ship, they are part of the exact same fairness problem they are complaining about. 

Moral of the story? Life isn't always fair and it's going to be unfair in multiple ways. You might not like one area of unfairness while not realizing unfairness in other places. 

How dare you say that life is unfair.......deflect and insert group type X here as the root of the problems. Trying to argue with logic and facts will just get you labeled a racist, sexist, homophobic, or Islamophobia.......or whatever title people can think up of in an attempt to scare you into silence and attempt to invalidate you perfectly logical arguments by labeling you so others will not look at your argument with unbiased eyes. 

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It ALWAYS comes down to WHO pays the bills  Some pay quite a bit and some pay very little or none at all.  If you are paying nothing or very little at all THINK who pays for the server, employees salary, equipment maintenance, electric utility, internet service, lease and rental contracts to offices, travel expenses, etc. Unless WG has another business on the side which subsidizes WOW - it has to make enough money to sustain its business model.  WG is not some company running out of some two car garage as you know. 

Without players who have paid in - you would not be playing unless WG went to a subscription service where everyone pays a base $$ amount month.  NOW that would be a total fair model for all with ships to be earned

through XP as ship sales would not matter as subscription dollars pays for everything.

Edited by dionkraft
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1 hour ago, Ducky_shot said:

Look around, you can't help but find them

Typical troll answer for a troll thread

Bye............

 

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2 minutes ago, MG1962 said:

Typical troll answer for a troll thread

Bye............

You can't see the million "I want Stalingrad but don't want to play Ranked or Clan Battles to earn steel" threads on the forum? Practically the entire front page is made of them. It's like a fertilizer tanker sprung a leak in front of the forum office...

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1 minute ago, Edgecase said:

You can't see the million "I want Stalingrad but don't want to play Ranked or Clan Battles to earn steel" threads on the forum? Practically the entire front page is made of them. It's like a fertilizer tanker sprung a leak in front of the forum office...

Edge, both of his posts have been specifically trying to bait me. Read his first post about me being the one "complaining" and it starts to make sense. (If they are not bait, then more attention needed to be done on his part in the comprehension and grammar parts of his English class)

Edited by Ducky_shot

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2 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

You can't see the million "I want Stalingrad but don't want to play Ranked or Clan Battles to earn steel" threads on the forum? Practically the entire front page is made of them. It's like a fertilizer tanker sprung a leak in front of the forum office...

my guess is that those are the same people who complain about the tier VII-X grind as being a pay wall

Edited by skull_122_steel

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Just now, skull_122_steel said:

my guess is that thoughs are the same people who complain about the tier VII-X grind as being a pay wall

I actually didn't mind Izumo, just finished grinding it the other night. I don't plan on playing it again, but I was able to make it work.

Edited by Ducky_shot
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1 minute ago, Ducky_shot said:

I actually didn't mind Izumo, just finished grinding it the other night. I don't plan on playing it again, but I was able to make it work.

and I didn't mind the Yorch I will definitely what to play it again but I dont have the credits for it right now

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