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crazyferret23777

Manual AA on Tirpitz?

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Hate playing the tirp with so many more cv's in higher tiers the last few weeks. Is it worth it to drop CE and add MAA? Tirp AA becomes so much better with it almost to the point of being good. I also use the same capt for my GK.

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sure,that wont stop the AP bombs anyway from dunking your health from hero to zero.

 

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Tirpitz has the worst AA out of any battleship at T8. Adding MAA isn't going to stop carriers and AP bombs from nuking you to oblivion.

This is a graph taken from LittleWhiteMouse's review of the Tirpitz showing the AA DPS values of various T8-T10 battleships (minus the French). 

jmZm0ik.png

Edited by Cruiser_Chicago
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Frankly, Tirpitz's AA sucks.

Even with manual AA, it still won't stop my Enterprise from nuking you.

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pray to the sky lords that your cv will protect you or just sail with your crusiers

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1 hour ago, crazyferret23777 said:

Hate playing the tirp with so many more cv's in higher tiers the last few weeks. Is it worth it to drop CE and add MAA? Tirp AA becomes so much better with it almost to the point of being good. I also use the same capt for my GK.

Tirptiz with an AA Build is going to be so-so.  With Manual AA and the works from an AA Build, she'll swat more planes down.  The problem however is that the max range is pretty mediocre, especially knowing that Tirpitz will be a primary target for a CV.  VII Gneisenau in a similar AA Build will reach further out, due to her having 128mm DP guns and not the piddly 105mm of Tirpitz.

 

I personally haven't done an AA Build on Tirpitz because I felt that the returns were not worthy enough.

 

Now, if you're just talking about dropping CE for MAA and that's it, no AAGM2, then I really don't see much help.  Manual AA is about the long range AA guns, 85mm or larger, and they need range for that to do work.  Tirpitz AA does not give that, most especially if you're not even putting AAGM2 in.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Like many have said, speccing Tirp for AA really wont accomplish much. Competent CV drivers are going to target you, especially if bottom tier. Stick with an AA boat or prepare for a short and brutal match. You might take out a few more planes than a non-AA spec but the end result is not gonna be pretty.

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If your still looking to improve its anti air defense, might I suggest taking the twin catapult fighter perk. I've had many carriers who didn't want to commit and leave me alone when the fighters get airborne. Plus even if they commit and attack having to shake off fighters will mess with their aim.

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With a fully specked manual AA build, I can a test, that the Tirpitz long range AA will swat planes from the 
sky at a decent rate of notes. I have had CV players actually never come back for a second run at me. 

Caveat: Wont stop a determined tier 10. But damn will slow him down and dent his air wing.

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Tirpitz base AA  (left click)   [left click MFCAA]

12x1  20mm  2.0km  36 DPS  (46.8)  [46.8]

8x4  20mm  2.0km  48 DPS  (62.4)  [62.4]

8x2  37mm  3.5kim  21 DPS  (27.3)  [27.3]

8x2  105mm  4.5km   134 DPS  ( 174.2)  [268] (only guns affected by MFCAA)

 

Tirpitz AA with BFT & AFT

12x1  20mm  2.4km  43 DPS  (55.9)  [55.9]

8x4  20mm  2.4km  58 DPS  (75.4)  [75.4]

8x2  37mm  4.2kim  25 DPS  (32.5)  [32.5]

8x2  105mm  5.4km   160 DPS  (208)  [320]  (only guns affected by MFCAA)

 

Tirpitz AA with BFT, AFT & AA module

12x1  20mm  2.9km  43 DPS  (55.9)  [55.9] 

8x4  20mm  2.9km  58 DPS   (75.4)  [75.4]

8x2  37mm  5.1kim  25 DPS  (32.5)  [32.5]

8x2  105mm  6.5km   160 DPS  (208)  [320]   (only guns affected by MFCAA)

 

Tirpitz Max AA with BFT, AFT & AA module & signal flag

12x1  20mm  2.9km  48 DPS  (62.4)  [62.4]

8x4  20mm  2.9km  63 DPS  (81.9) [81.9]

8x2  37mm  5.1kim  27 DPS (35.1)  [35.1]

8x2  105mm  6.5km   176 DPS  (228.8)  [352]   (only guns affected by MFCAA)

 

MFCAA - +100% to average damage per second of AA guns with a caliber exceeding 85mm against a designated target.  This doesn't mean manual aim. It requires the player to manually select a target by holding down CTRL and left-clicking on it, in order for this skill to double the long-range AA DPS.

 

So, when you do not have MFCAA, by clicking on a squadron, you increase the AA by 30%. MFCAA makes that by 100%.

Edited by Kizarvexis

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I tried once, MAA helps you a lot against CVs, but still wont save you from a determined CV player. 

 

Also i dont think that heavy AA builds are worth it because we see few CVs in the game and even if you find one there is no guarantee that he will send his planes near you.

 

IMO CE is a much better skill overall and will help you much more often than MAA. Unless you can div with a CV player and even then there are better choices like Bismarck or NC/Bama. 

 

 

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Honestly it's not a terrible choice. I run AFT, Man Sec and MCFAA as my T4 skills on mine, (SUper at T3, Adrenaline at T2 and Priority Target at T1).

 

 

That said as others have noted, a determined player will get through, but it definitely stings them.

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10 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

Hate playing the tirp with so many more cv's in higher tiers the last few weeks. Is it worth it to drop CE and add MAA? Tirp AA becomes so much better with it almost to the point of being good. I also use the same capt for my GK.

No!

Don't spec ships for AA.  Ever!

You s/b running a secondary spec on Tirpitz FYI.

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16 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

Hate playing the tirp with so many more cv's in higher tiers the last few weeks. Is it worth it to drop CE and add MAA? Tirp AA becomes so much better with it almost to the point of being good. I also use the same capt for my GK.

Tirp's AA isn't good. The best you can do is turn it from "suck", to "sucks-a-little-less". Even at "sucks-a-little-less" it won't even dent a CV strike. Put your points into your secondaries or survival talents. If you need AA, find a Baltimore or a Cleveland and get really friendly and call out when the planes are coming in so he an focus them. I was in Baltimore yesterday and the enemy Essex tried to come for the Tirp on our side repeatedly. I broke up all three strikes ( I am AA specced on all my US cruisers) on him and stayed close to him until the CV gave up. There have been a lot of CVs out lately for the Halsey missions.

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use gneisenau if you are concerned about CV. her AA is much better and can actually take down a lot of planes.

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Just now, Cruxdei said:

use gneisenau if you are concerned about CV. her AA is much better and can actually take down a lot of planes.

That it does.  She can defend a group of ships around her.

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1 hour ago, Tzarevitch said:

Tirp's AA isn't good. The best you can do is turn it from "suck", to "sucks-a-little-less". Even at "sucks-a-little-less" it won't even dent a CV strike. Put your points into your secondaries or survival talents. If you need AA, find a Baltimore or a Cleveland and get really friendly and call out when the planes are coming in so he an focus them. I was in Baltimore yesterday and the enemy Essex tried to come for the Tirp on our side repeatedly. I broke up all three strikes ( I am AA specced on all my US cruisers) on him and stayed close to him until the CV gave up. There have been a lot of CVs out lately for the Halsey missions.

 

Eh with the right spec it's not unworkable at hurting a CV. It's just not going to outright murder anything that comes anywhere remotely close the way the heavy AAA ships will. But CV's really don't like getting tagged by AAA at all.

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with BFT, AFT, Manual AA and the AA module you get 319,2 dps at 6.5km. Now if this is not good enough for some players here....

Now the problem here is that you will want probaly to use a secondary spec so you will not use the AA module. In this case you will get 319,2 dps at 5.4 km. 

Edited by _no_one_

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10 minutes ago, _no_one_ said:

with BFT, AFT, Manual AA and the AA module you get 319,2 dps at 6.5km. Now if this is not good enough for some players here....

Now the problem here is that you will want probaly to use a secondary spec so you will not use the AA module. In this case you will get 319,2 dps at 5.4 km. 

That's the problem.  In the latter case, without AAGM2 to supplement those traits, you don't have the reach for the big AA guns to have more time to do their work.  For AA to be effective, DPS is nice, but it needs range so that the planes are under fire longer.  5.4km max range is "Too Late" AA.

 

It may be fine for Tirpitz to deal with Tier VI CVs, but the higher threats like Kaga, Saipan, Shokaku, Enterprise, even AP Bomb slinging Lexington, Graf Zeppelin, that's not going to shoot many planes down.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I’m going to be the dork that points out the Tirpitz may not have great AA but it should be better than Bismarck’s...

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33 minutes ago, FrodoFraggin said:

I’m going to be the dork that points out the Tirpitz may not have great AA but it should be better than Bismarck’s...

It's actually worse than Bismarck's. 

 

19 hours ago, Cruiser_Chicago said:

Tirpitz has the worst AA out of any battleship at T8. Adding MAA isn't going to stop carriers and AP bombs from nuking you to oblivion.

This is a graph taken from LittleWhiteMouse's review of the Tirpitz showing the AA DPS values of various T8-T10 battleships (minus the French). 

jmZm0ik.png

Here's the chart @LittleWhiteMouse drew up for T8-T10 BBs. Tirpitz is the worst. 

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3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

That's the problem.  In the latter case, without AAGM2 to supplement those traits, you don't have the reach for the big AA guns to have more time to do their work.  For AA to be effective, DPS is nice, but it needs range so that the planes are under fire longer.  5.4km max range is "Too Late" AA.

 

It may be fine for Tirpitz to deal with Tier VI CVs, but the higher threats like Kaga, Saipan, Shokaku, Enterprise, even AP Bomb slinging Lexington, Graf Zeppelin, that's not going to shoot many planes down.

I can't agree with you. 

I have the Bismarck with BFT and AFT. With this i get:

165 dps at 2.4 km

123.6 dps at 4.2 km

159.6 dps at 5.4 km

With these values tier 6 cv don't have any chance. Tier 7 cv will struggle. Tier 8 cv needs to have some luck to ruin my game , but will also lose some planes. In fact in 240 games only one time a american CV managed to ruin my game with a perfect AP drop but that was because i was not moving. Tier 9 will lose few planes and tier 10 will delete me if he wants .

 

WIth BFT , AFT and manual AA on the Tirpitz you get:

108 dps at 2.4 km

24 dps at 4.2 km

319 dps at 5.4 km.

With these values i bet that tier 8 planes will not have a chance. Tier 9 will struggle. Tier 10 will also lose some planes.

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1 hour ago, _no_one_ said:

I can't agree with you. 

I have the Bismarck with BFT and AFT. With this i get:

165 dps at 2.4 km

123.6 dps at 4.2 km

159.6 dps at 5.4 km

With these values tier 6 cv don't have any chance. Tier 7 cv will struggle. Tier 8 cv needs to have some luck to ruin my game , but will also lose some planes. In fact in 240 games only one time a american CV managed to ruin my game with a perfect AP drop but that was because i was not moving. Tier 9 will lose few planes and tier 10 will delete me if he wants .

 

WIth BFT , AFT and manual AA on the Tirpitz you get:

108 dps at 2.4 km

24 dps at 4.2 km

319 dps at 5.4 km.

With these values i bet that tier 8 planes will not have a chance. Tier 9 will struggle. Tier 10 will also lose some planes.

 

Ehhh i wouldn't go that far and 5.4km isn;t great range but it's still more effective than any of the T8 BB's baseline. Or about the same as Indianapolis with DF running on a bare bones build. Thats nothing to sneeze at even if it won;t hard kill everything coming a you. CV's generally don;t like going after stuff that chews up their planes in the process so you don't necessarily have to have the ability to completely wax the attack to make them back off.

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16 hours ago, TheDreadnought said:

No!

Don't spec ships for AA.  Ever!

You s/b running a secondary spec on Tirpitz FYI.

I just gave up secondary and went with better main guns. I figure 9.9 kms is more than enough
snap, crackle and pop. :cap_haloween:

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