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Ensign_Cthulhu

Concerning the British destroyer tech tree reveals this weekend.

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Can we please all remember that these are first-iteration stats which are subject to change, and not behave like this is the line which is coming out immediately?

If you have objections, state them - but please state them politely, back them up with some sort of rational case, and refrain from acting as if world will end tomorrow if your demands are not met.

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DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

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Personally so far I can see three issues.

The first are the torpedoes on the low to mid range UK DDs, which have ranges which are too short and offer little to no possibility of stealth torping. From Wakeful to Jervis they just need to be increased up to 7-8 km imho depending on tier. Lightning could use a buff up to 10km. The torp range on Jutland and Daring are workable, but given the distances involved at those high tiers and the current prevalence of radar ships I think a range of 11km would be more reasonable and comfortable to use. They're already going to take forever to reload so no harm in it.

The second are the 114mm guns on Daring and Jutland. I really hope they have the 1/4 HE penetration rule as default, or IFHE will be mandatory to do damage. This will throw off players who might have trained captains without the skill on lower tier DDs, and I see a number of F2P players who will be very unhappy.

The third issue I have is that super short ranged hydro. Seriously What's the point? it's so short as to be pretty useless, and it's a borderline insult since the RN spent a great deal of time and effort during WW2 getting good with detecting and dealing with U-boats. If anything the British DDs should be getting improved hydro, if you want it as part of their flavour. I think that perhaps the intent here is to let the UK DDs protect themselves with hydro whilst they sit in smoke, but it's just too short ranged and I question how effective it'll be as a tool of defence. The UK's special Dunkirk brother captains don't have improved vigilance either. Either improve it to a level where hydro builds are viable, or remove it and replace it with something more useful.

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I really want the British DD's to have the single-fire torpedo option, same as their cruisers have. If you're a good enough shot with single-fire you can be absolutely devastating with a single salvo.

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I guess that I'm mature and patient enough to not get overly wound up about the RN DD stats at this point.  It appears that we're looking at another hybrid DD like that has particularly good concealment.

 

The one seemingly unmistakable take-away for me is that this would seem to be proof positive that the RN DD is the next major ship line in the queue.  I don't count the completion of the IJN gunboat DD line here, because adding two ships to the line hardly counts to me.  A nice addition/completion to be sure, but not the next new line in my book.

 

And for what little it's worth, since the last 3 lines have been: USN cruisers, then French BBs, then the PA-DDs before that (IIRC),  I predict that the line after the RN DDs will be a BB line (Italian BBs?) if this progression/rotation holds true.

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Just now, Crucis said:

I guess that I'm mature and patient enough to not get overly wound up about the RN DD stats at this point.  It appears that we're looking at another hybrid DD like that has particularly good concealment.

 

The one seemingly unmistakable take-away for me is that this would seem to be proof positive that the RN DD is the next major ship line in the queue.  I don't count the completion of the IJN gunboat DD line here, because adding two ships to the line hardly counts to me.  A nice addition/completion to be sure, but not the next new line in my book.

 

And for what little it's worth, since the last 3 lines have been: USN cruisers, then French BBs, then the PA-DDs before that (IIRC),  I predict that the line after the RN DDs will be a BB line (Italian BBs?) if this progression/rotation holds true.

Personally, I'd prefer a Russian BB line to an Italian BB line. I think there's a little bit more at a little bit better quality to work with there. Just my opinion.

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4 minutes ago, DonKarnage2 said:

Personally, I'd prefer a Russian BB line to an Italian BB line. I think there's a little bit more at a little bit better quality to work with there. Just my opinion.

Translation?

 

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12 minutes ago, Super_Dreadnought said:
Spoiler

Personally so far I can see three issues.

The first are the torpedoes on the low to mid range UK DDs, which have ranges which are too short and offer little to no possibility of stealth torping. From Wakeful to Jervis they just need to be increased up to 7-8 km imho depending on tier. Lightning could use a buff up to 10km. The torp range on Jutland and Daring are workable, but given the distances involved that those high tiers and the current prevalence of radar ships I think a range of 11km would be more reasonable and comfortable to use. They're already going to take forever to reload so no harm in it.

The second are the 114mm guns on Daring and Jutland. I really hope they have the 1/4 HE penetration rule as default, or IFHE will be mandatory to do damage. This will throw off players who might have trained captains without the skill on lower tier DDs, and I see a number of F2P players who will be very unhappy.

The third issue I have is that super short ranged hydro. Seriously What's the point? it's so short as to be pretty useless, and it's a borderline insult since the RN spent a great deal of time and effort during WW2 getting good with detecting and dealing with U-boats. If anything the British DDs should be getting improved hydro, if you want it as part of their flavour. I think that perhaps the intent here is to let the UK DDs protect themselves with hydro whilst they sit in smoke, but it's just too short ranged and I question how effective it'll be as a tool of defence. The UK's special Dunkirk brother captains don't have improved vigilance either. Either improve it to a level where hydro builds are viable, or remove it and replace it with something more useful.

 

 

Very well reasoned, and flawlessly stated! As  for the hydro, I would bet the ship detection is tiny, but that the torpedo detection will actually be quite good.

2 minutes ago, Crucis said:
Spoiler

I guess that I'm mature and patient enough to not get overly wound up about the RN DD stats at this point.  It appears that we're looking at another hybrid DD like that has particularly good concealment.

 

The one seemingly unmistakable take-away for me is that this would seem to be proof positive that the RN DD is the next major ship line in the queue.  I don't count the completion of the IJN gunboat DD line here, because adding two ships to the line hardly counts to me.  A nice addition/completion to be sure, but not the next new line in my book.

 

And for what little it's worth, since the last 3 lines have been: USN cruisers, then French BBs, then the PA-DDs before that (IIRC),  I predict that the line after the RN DDs will be a BB line (Italian BBs?) if this progression/rotation holds true.

 

IIRC, it was Italian cruisers for the fourth quarter this year.

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10 minutes ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

The second are the 114mm guns on Daring and Jutland. I really hope they have the 1/4 HE penetration rule as default, or IFHE will be mandatory to do damage.

The Akizuki line is no different, if the DD armor changes go through it wont matter anyway. Otherwise BritDDs are just similar to Akizuki.

8 minutes ago, DonKarnage2 said:

I really want the British DD's to have the single-fire torpedo option, same as their cruisers have.

They do.

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14 minutes ago, DonKarnage2 said:

I really want the British DD's to have the single-fire torpedo option, same as their cruisers have. If you're a good enough shot with single-fire you can be absolutely devastating with a single salvo.

Akeno just said they do, but since i didnt see the teasing...

Absolutely this^, it is my favorite part of rn cruisers, and keeping it consistent with the dd branch would be my vote.

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As they currently sit, i see no reason to play them. I have suffered enough with bad destroyers, looking at IJN DD'S after split.

Do I think they will be adjusted? Yes.

I see 7 km to 11.5 km torps.

Or German like reloads.

I see a buff to hydro of around 4 to 4.5 km.

If these happen, they will be very competitive. 

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1 hour ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

UR8lOXb.gif

:Smile_teethhappy:

1 hour ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

an-angry-mob.png

 

:Smile_teethhappy:

 

 

DiojUYs.jpg

Edited by Kizarvexis

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4 minutes ago, Akeno017 said:

They do.

"Thank the Maker!" - C-3PO

5 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Translation?

1. The Potemkin which would, admittedly probably be the T3 if it was even in the game is a quite famous ship.

2. The Giulio Ceasare was given to the USSR as a War Prize after World War II and re-named the Novorossiysk. Would be nice to have something Caesare-like in a main tech tree to address the Caesare.

3. Archangelsk, which was a British-built Revenge-Class Battleship and of which there are no examples currently in the game, would likely be added. Russian shell trajectory with British HE rounds. The LOLS and screams of rage from your enemies would be most gratifying, we all know I'm right.

4. Sovetsky Soyuz, the T10, actually existed in planning phases while the biggest Italian BB was the Littorio-Class currently represented by the Roma in game. That means we'd have 2 Fictional Ships at T9 and T10 for the Italians. At least the Russian T10 actually existed and had hulls laid down, even if they were scrapped before being launched.

 

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19 minutes ago, DonKarnage2 said:

 

2. The Giulio Ceasare was given to the USSR as a War Prize after World War II and re-named the Novorossiysk. Would be nice to have something Caesare-like in a main tech tree to address the Caesare.

3. Archangelsk, which was a British-built Revenge-Class Battleship and of which there are no examples currently in the game, would likely be added. Russian shell trajectory with British HE rounds. The LOLS and screams of rage from your enemies would be most gratifying, we all know I'm right.

 

I think the both of them would serve better as unique premium ships. Imho the more likely soviet tier 5 tech tree ship would be Sevastopol. It'd be a simple copy paste, and tweaking of  October Revolution. And what would a soviet Cesare address exactly? With the stats out there now, I suspect that the soviet version would be toned down significantly. Either that or it remains as strong but in Stalinium flavour.

With regards to Arkhangelsk, it was loaned to the USSR for less than 5 years, and apparently the main battery turrets had not been rotated while the ship was in Soviet service, and were jammed on the centreline when returned to the UK. The Soviets wouldn't have had some special Arkhangelsk shell with Russian trajectory and British HE rounds. It'd just be the same rounds you find on Queen Liz, Warspite, or Hood, which are not particularly special on the fire setting front.

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1 minute ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

I think the both of them would serve better as unique premium ships. Imho the more likely soviet tier 5 tech tree ship would be Sevastopol. It'd be a simple copy paste, and tweaking of  October Revolution. And what would a soviet Cesare address exactly? With the stats out there now, I suspect that the soviet version would be toned down significantly. Either that or it remains as strong but in Satlinium flavour.

With regards to Arkhangelsk, it was loaned to the USSR for less than 5 years, and apparently the main battery turrets had not been rotated while the ship was in Soviet service, and were jammed on the centreline. The Soviets wouldn't have had some special Arkhangelsk shell with Russian trajectory and British HE rounds. It'd just be the same rounds you find on Queen Liz, Warspite, or Hood, which are not particularly special on the fire setting front.

I'm aware that the Brits scrapped the Archangelsk when it was returned to them. But, do you really think the Dev's wouldn't buff it a bit since it's a Russian ship?

While Sevastopol makes more sense, I don't think the Devs will want to decrease the uniqueness of a Russian Premium when they have a ready-made historical reason to not do so by pulling the Ceasare over. The Soviet's also upgraded the ship's AA once they got it and they had plans to put their own 305's on, replacing the Italian 320's that it had when it was turned over. So, the upgrade modules are already built into it too.

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47 minutes ago, Crucis said:

And for what little it's worth, since the last 3 lines have been: USN cruisers, then French BBs, then the PA-DDs before that (IIRC),  I predict that the line after the RN DDs will be a BB line (Italian BBs?) if this progression/rotation holds true.

I think Italian cruisers will come before a BB line because WG needs something to branch the line off from. I think nearly every new battleship line introduced came after the cruiser lines. The Pan Asian destroyers are an exception (again IMO) due to the line being essentially done save for possible premiums.

 

As for the main topic, the British destroyers are definitely going to be changed. Their tech tree seems to be the most prone to gimmicks, so I won't put any stock into the current stats of these ships save for the number of guns and torp tubes.

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I'm not seeing mobs with torches and pitchforks, not yet at least.  People are expressing some concern on the torps ranges, and rightfully so.  I happen to think the low tier RN DDs are weak and if they make into the game more or less as is, not many people will make it through the grind.  Short ranged tops, floaty shells, and slow turret rotation aren't inspiring. 

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35 minutes ago, DonKarnage2 said:

"Thank the Maker!" - C-3PO

1. The Potemkin which would, admittedly probably be the T3 if it was even in the game is a quite famous ship.

2. The Giulio Ceasare was given to the USSR as a War Prize after World War II and re-named the Novorossiysk. Would be nice to have something Caesare-like in a main tech tree to address the Caesare.

3. Archangelsk, which was a British-built Revenge-Class Battleship and of which there are no examples currently in the game, would likely be added. Russian shell trajectory with British HE rounds. The LOLS and screams of rage from your enemies would be most gratifying, we all know I'm right.

4. Sovetsky Soyuz, the T10, actually existed in planning phases while the biggest Italian BB was the Littorio-Class currently represented by the Roma in game. That means we'd have 2 Fictional Ships at T9 and T10 for the Italians. At least the Russian T10 actually existed and had hulls laid down, even if they were scrapped before being launched.

 

Actually DonKarnage, when I said "translation?", I meant that the highlighted sentence made no sense.  There was a word or 2 missing or mis-spelled or something, because as written, the sentence quite literally made no sense to me. Sorry.

 

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

Actually DonKarnage, when I said "translation?", I meant that the highlighted sentence made no sense.  There was a word or 2 missing or mis-spelled or something, because as written, the sentence quite literally made no sense to me. Sorry.

 

Ah, my bad. The point was there is more material to work with in Russian BB's and Russian BB's were higher quality than Italian.

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13 minutes ago, DonKarnage2 said:

I'm aware that the Brits scrapped the Archangelsk when it was returned to them. But, do you really think the Dev's wouldn't buff it a bit since it's a Russian ship?

While Sevastopol makes more sense, I don't think the Devs will want to decrease the uniqueness of a Russian Premium when they have a ready-made historical reason to not do so by pulling the Ceasare over. The Soviet's also upgraded the ship's AA once they got it and they had plans to put their own 305's on, replacing the Italian 320's that it had when it was turned over. So, the upgrade modules are already built into it too.

I'm sorry but I don't subscribe to the theory that WG will make anything Russian superior by sprinkling the tears of uncle Joe over it. So my answer is no on the magical shells purposefully designed by Stalin's finest just for a Battleship on loan. Tbh I don't expect Arkhangelsk to be included at all for a long time if ever. Imho WG are more likely into include patriotic 100% Russian paper battleships over a British loan that existed. But ultimately we'll both have to just wait and see.

As for the uniqueness of October Revolution, WG did hand it out for no free back in 2017. That's how I got mine complete with CCCP camo. I can't imagine they care all that much about a Sevastopol tech tree ship cutting down on their sales.

 

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