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GreyFox78659

The great submarine debate

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The great submarine debate 

 

I think we finally had a breakthrough on this subject in  my last thread.

 

But first attempts to shout the discussion down or insult ideas on either side will result in my ignoring you.

 

The arguments against submarines currently being debated.

 

They are impossible to balance!

 

Subs have many facets that allow balance, underwater time surface time, sight distance,etc.

 

They are invincible underwater!

 

Nope, they are invisible only guns and bombs won’t effect them. Depth charges and torpedoes still will as well as ramming.

 

Battleships can’t attack them!

 

While they are under this is true underwater they will surface and become an easy kill for your secondaries also Battleships have deep hulls which means ramming a submerged sub is possible.

 

They will be boring! 

 

This is opinion I find B.B. and CVs boring most of the time.

 

They won’t add anything to the game!

 

They will help with the current meta issue of ship staying static and not moving.

 

 

They aren’t realistic! 

 

Nothing in this game is truly realistic. 

 

They will win by survival causing me to lose!

 

Back the day when ties were possible yes ties aren’t possible.

Edited by GreyFox78659
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"The great submarine debate"

... is only one because people like you won't accept that they don't fit and never will be in this game.

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Just now, Lert said:

"The great submarine debate"

... is only one because people like you won't accept that they don't fit and never will be in this game.

Is being able to see into the future a new skill of yours, or having you been making a fortune in Vegas for years?  I get it you don't like the idea of subs.  Your post isn't discussion, it isn't constructive criticism.  Why not ignore a thread if you don't have anything constructive to add?

OP, I agree with you about subs possibly being a nice addition to the game.  Personally, I'd like to see them added to operations and see if they can maybe fit into the game farther if people enjoy playing them. 

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1 minute ago, Slimeball91 said:

Is being able to see into the future a new skill of yours, or having you been making a fortune in Vegas for years?  I get it you don't like the idea of subs.  Your post isn't discussion, it isn't constructive criticism.  Why not ignore a thread if you don't have anything constructive to add?

Oh god, another one.

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2 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

Is being able to see into the future a new skill of yours, or having you been making a fortune in Vegas for years?  I get it you don't like the idea of subs.  Your post isn't discussion, it isn't constructive criticism.  Why not ignore a thread if you don't have anything constructive to add?

OP, I agree with you about subs possibly being a nice addition to the game.  Personally, I'd like to see them added to operations and see if they can maybe fit into the game farther if people enjoy playing them. 

Yea, perhaps after they are kinda done with adding ships, improving the game itself, we might see them. Atleast, I hope so.

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Draws are possible.  Had one last week actually.   

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14 minutes ago, Lert said:

"The great submarine debate"

... is only one because people like you won't accept that they don't fit and never will be in this game.

The Dutch Navy had subs in ww2

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16 minutes ago, Lert said:

"The great submarine debate"

... is only one because people like you won't accept that they don't fit and never will be in this game.

This would an example of an attempt to shout out debate. 

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Did anyone notice all the points against submarines apply to CV, too? CV is in the game. So don't rule out WG adding subs.

I don't want either.

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Hey, the Silent Hunter games are on sale on Steam. You could go play those.

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1 minute ago, GreyFox78659 said:

This would an example of an attempt to shout out debate. 

You just started a submarine thread yesterday.   Spamming the forums is not a good way to do this as you’ll now have either two active threads or ignored responses.  Consolidate your posts.

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3 minutes ago, chewonit said:

Did anyone notice all the points against submarines apply to CV, too?

You know, except the points that actually, like, matter.

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5 minutes ago, chewonit said:

Did anyone notice all the points against submarines apply to CV, too? CV is in the game. So don't rule out WG adding subs.

I don't want either.

This mind set I believe is falling out of favor with the developers as they could be making more money by not listening to it. 

The BB centered gameplay is fine in Europe and the US but most navies never had them (China and Korea). Most still have submarines.

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I agree with Lert, what exactly is "great" about this debate, and why would any debate, small or great, influence WGs game concept?  Removing stealth fire caused more player angst and "great" debate, how did that work out in the end?  

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4 minutes ago, GreyFox78659 said:

This mind set I believe is falling out of favor with the developers as they could be making more money by not listening to it. 

The BB centered gameplay is fine in Europe and the US but most navies never had them (China and Korea). Most still have submarines.

Making money isn't always a s simple as that.  A quick money grab that threatens the long term viability of a thing most intelligent people would avoid.

Comparisons with CVs are bad because they are a money losing proposition right now, and if this rework doesn't revitalize the player base the nuclear option must be considered (removal of the class from the game, or at the very least ending all further development, i.e. new trees and premiums, stops).  So saying anything is just like CVs, well I'd wait for the rework results to come in before making that comparison.

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The main problem with this thread is, there is no "debate". The game developers have said there will not be subs in this game. If you want a game that has subs make one or wait for another game it is simply not gonna happen in this one.

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30 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

Is being able to see into the future a new skill of yours, or having you been making a fortune in Vegas for years?  I get it you don't like the idea of subs.  Your post isn't discussion, it isn't constructive criticism.  Why not ignore a thread if you don't have anything constructive to add?

OP, I agree with you about subs possibly being a nice addition to the game.  Personally, I'd like to see them added to operations and see if they can maybe fit into the game farther if people enjoy playing them. 

I thought the debate ended when WG said there would be no subs in the game. 

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Oh god.

Not this again.

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We already had a 'great submarine debate thread' years ago before and during alpha. Iirc it ended up being ridiculously long and extensively debated, with real submariners involved and some arguing against subs. It was like around 70 - 80 pages or so. Those were fun times, and I think the community of the time just ended up counter arguing, and counter arguing, until everybody ended up going round in circles of counter arguing. Good times good times.:cap_like:

My bet is on this thread getting nowhere near that lofty page count and being nowhere near great, but hopefully it might be amusing to watch.:cap_popcorn:

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Just now, Khafni said:

I thought the debate ended when WG said there would be no subs in the game. 

WG can't see into the future either.  Never say never.

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Just now, xXxRCADDICT said:

The main problem with this thread is, there is no "debate". The game developers have said there will not be subs in this game. If you want a game that has subs make one or wait for another game it is simply not gonna happen in this one.

Even that was true it isn’t BTW. This would be an appeal to authority. An authority that is in business to make money. Also would be an attempt to shout down debate.

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You know, maybe you’re right. After really thinking about it, they might add subs one day... If this game is still around in many years and they have added all the lines of ships they decide to, fix all the issues they plan to, add maps, change mechanics, change CV’s, and exhaust everything they can ever imagine. Then maybe they will consider adding a sub class. Or you know maybe a battlecruiser or other types... 

Maybe like 4+ years down the road. 

Also, if your last thread was making progress, why start another instead of using that one?

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Could someone link to the original thread(s) about subs?  It would be nice to look at the arguments that have come before - if we're going to have debate, @GreyFox78659, we might as well make it productive.

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