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evilleMonkeigh

Sims vs Kidd

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I now have Kidd, and after playing a handful of games I was startled at the massive performance spike between the T7 and T8.

My question is: Has Kidd rendered Simms irrelevant as a US DD premium?

Yes, I know I am comparing a T7 and a T8.

But the difference is just startling in two ships that share a similar role (cap contester/US DDcrew trainer)

Torpedoes: Both are meh.

Guns: Kidd has about 30% more dpm

Concealment: Kidd 5.8 vs Simms 6.6 (admittedly typical T7 vs T8)

Health: Kidd has double the EHP ~30k including heals, Simms has 16.5 (assuming SE/SI)

Speed/Agility: Similar at 39-40kts. Agility-wise, Simms is outstanding, Kidd is merely excellent

AA: Both have DFAA - Kidd is 2x better in theory (and much better in practice; annihilating planes rather than driving them off)
As a Premium/trainer: Obviously as T8 Kidd earns more silver, but it also costs more $$$.  Both are pretty flexible with captains

Other thoughts:

The huge HP boost + conceal means Kidd uptiers MUCH better.  A Sims in T8 struggles, a Kidd in T9 doesn't care. 

It also helps vs radar spam; a Kidd can take a few unlucky hits early when exploring caps, heal up, and play on undeterred whereas a Sims would be crippled/forced to play conservatively with the same damage.  Finally having AA means another source of DD frustration is gone, as the USS Chemo Kidd doesn't suffer from planes hovering above for long...

....For ships that share a similar role (cap contesting DD with poor torps and DFAA; good at cap control/support and weak in damage) having double the HP, .8 better conceal, double the AA, and ~30% better guns is just a massive spike in power between tiers.

Honestly, the unpleasantness of T8 MM/dislike of higher tier play, or the $ cost, is probably the only reason you would even consider the Simms. 

Don't get me wrong; I enjoy the Simms, it is FUN - which is important - but it is simply outclassed as a T7 DD by the Leningrad (by miles), Blys and Gadjah, and massively outclassed as a US DD trainer by the Kidd... ....which is equally fun....

 

 

 

So... would you ever recommend the Simms, when the Kidd is just so much better?

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I thought you were comparing the Sims game to actually having children.

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I thought you were comparing the Sims game to actually having children.

In that case I could heartily recommend the Sims.

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Sims vs kids. I also recommend Sims

Sims vs Kidd. I have both and for whatever reason I do well in Sims and not that great in Kidd (I do better in Akizuki).

Granted, I have played Sims much more than Kidd. Both are very good at what they do.

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Sims seems to be a Battleship harasser and a mine layer....

In close ok vs other dds. 

 

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I have both ships and although I only have a handful of games in the Sims (just got her a couple days ago in a container mission) and 100+ in the Kidd, here are my thoughts: 

The Sims benefits massively from the MM she gets at T7. You don't see T9 often at all, whereas in Kidd you see T10 a majority of the time. (Roughly 60% by my unscientific estimation and for stretches it seems like much more.)

The Kidd uptiers pretty well thanks to her concealment, which matches Fletcher, and her heal which is more forgiving of mistakes, and allows you to stay in the fight much longer. 

I have yet to take the Sims into a T9 game, but I shudder to think how it would fare against the German Z boat and Fletcher with its 6.6km concealment. 

The Sims has the advantage of being able to play as a (albeit very bad) torp boat with its 49 knot War Pillows that do tiddlywinks for damage. 

The Kidd has the advantage of survivability, AA, and gun DPM. But with the single torp launcher and a 2 minute reload you are very limited in what you can do with it. 

 

Overall, it really comes down to play style.

The Sims offers a much more traditional USN DD playstyle, with favorable matchmaking, so-so AA, and decent firepower in guns and torps. 

The Kidd offers a very unique USN DD experience where you have to be extremely crafty with your guns, selective with your torps, and know when to press your advantage and when to hang back and spot. 

 

They're both extremely fun, and honestly, captains translate pretty well between the two. Having just got the Sims, I enjoy dumping my Kidd Captain in her with a max Manual AA build just as much as I like putting my SE/Torp Reload Gearing Captain in her. 

Sims won't break the bank. But it will break with impunity T5 DDs. 

Kidd might break your soul if you rely on torps. But it is a champion knife fighter in the right hands. 

@evilleMonkeigh I have a long-running thread with my initial review and periodic updates on the Kidd. Give it a read and ask any questions you like. I monitor it daily.

Edited by Falls_USMC

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Iirc the Sims has a boost to exp built into it so in practice it might just be the better trainer.

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While I like the Kidd alot, I like Sims MM better.

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I like Sims better.  She truly is the King of Knife Fighting.

I'd love to see a T10 version of the Sims, ok fire power and concealment combined with a small profile and best in class rudder shift and turning circle.

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On 6/23/2018 at 12:16 AM, Kurok1972 said:

Iirc the Sims has a boost to exp built into it so in practice it might just be the better trainer.

Bingo we have a winner!

You need all the good stuff for Kidd because of Tier 8 matchmaking.  

After the smoke firing nerf, I stopped taking Superintendent on DDs. However, SI is a really good idea on Kidd both for an extra heal and another Defensive AA. 

Also, adding AFT or Manual AA makes the Kidd really nasty for CVs. Again, not skills I’d normally run on Benson, Fletcher or Gearing. 

All that said, I enjoy playing both ships but seem to do better in the Kidd. 

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I would take Sims first, if I had to choose between them.   I get my a$$ kicked in the kidd and I am forced to use a heal or two the instant I am visible.   Sims, never seems to take as much focus as Kidd does, and it dodges incoming fire seemingly alot better.  Plus the xp bonus, and watermines.   If only sims could get a concealment buff.  Theres no way it should be on the same concealment as fatty mahan.  

I run the same full AA captain on both.  

Edited by AnimaL21

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Hey

I have both the Kidd and the Sims (just recently got the Sims) but I struggle figuring out the Kidd when there are no CV's in game, I just don't seem to do well.  The Sims is fun in it's own way, being a nuisance to the enemy; she would be great if we had better torps on board or even slightly better concealment which is very reasonable.  Given today's meta, radar ships and the like, I would take the Sims since T7 doesn't get up-tired quite so often, it has better maneuverability, and the the higher tiers see a lack of CV's.  The Kidd for me seems slow, sluggish, and is just a bigger target.  If there is a CV in game, the Kidd can shoot down planes like crazy.  There are other DD's at both tiers I would rather play.  

 

Pete

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but I struggle figuring out the Kidd when there are no CV's in game, I just don't seem to do well.  The Sims is fun in it's own way, being a nuisance to the enemy; she would be great if we had better torps on board or even slightly better concealment which is very reasonable. 

Don't Simms and Kidd share a similar role? Contest caps and harass?  With the Kidd having much better stealth, firepower and double HP and AA at merely a tier higher?  I mean, it's a tier 8 Fletcher, with heals (more HP) and better AA.     

Yes, torpedoes are bad, but Sims torps are also irrelevant and don't really figure in the conversation either. 

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it has better maneuverability, and the the higher tiers see a lack of CV's.  The Kidd for me seems slow, sluggish, and is just a bigger target. 

Really? Sims does have best-in-game rudder shift but Kidd's 3.9 seconds is by no means bad and is better than the Mahan, Akatsuki, Minsk, Shiratsuyu etc... i.e. pretty much every DD that is not a Sims. Sims may also be .5kt faster.... but that's not exactly a huge discrepancy.  Not sure about size, but no one complains about Fletcher....

I'm just not sure if some minor agility benefits stacks up against double HP and 5.8 vs 6.6 stealth.  Aside from 30% dpm, that''s a huge spike in power.  I mean, a Sims in T8 is going to struggle, but a Kidd IS a T9 Fletcher with 10k more HP in exchange for torps.  In addition, AA renders CV's - primary DD bugbear -  irrelevant.

Edited by evilleMonkeigh

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On 6/26/2018 at 10:01 AM, AnimaL21 said:

 If only sims could get a concealment buff. 

I have the sims, leningrad, and blyska, and I'm always a little surprised that the sims has pretty equivalent concealment. I think sims should be 6.4 or 6.3

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It depends what exactly we're comparing between the two.

 

The Sims is good at specific things. It's the most agile ship in the game and properly dressed can get a lot of DOT damage going. The defensive AA can have some bite on same tier and lower planes. I can't say much about the Kidd since I don't have one. As far as the Sims goes I think ships like the Maass are an overall better ship especially since CV are as rare as they are. 

Edited by Vekta408

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It depends what exactly we're comparing between the two.

Pretty sure I compared quite a lot of things, and quite specifically. I think the comparison is relevant as they have the same role. Crew trainer, and cap-contester-with-meh-torpedoes.

Sims has outstanding handling, but Kidd is also excellent - better than every other T7 bar the Sims, for example, and only .5 knot slower. Probably the only thing going for Sims is it's MM. Less radar, tends to be top not bottom tier. That's not insignificant. Otherwise there's just a huge power spike (which, admittedly) in HP (double) and AA (double) and the usual vast stealth spike (5.8 vs 6.6) which admittedly is typical of T7 vs T8 DDs, on top of a 30% increase in dpm (which also means better DoT from fires etc of course).

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As far as the Sims goes I think ships like the Maass are an overall better ship especially since CV are as rare as they are. 

Agree. I ENJOY Sims, it's FUN - but feel it is very overrated. It has the carrying ability of a soggy paper bag. Leningrad, Blyskawica, Maass are all better.  I think it's baked-in XP modifier makes people think they are doing better in it than they actually are. Haida-with-5.7km-detect, better HP and HE dpm makes Sims even more irrelevant at this role.

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2 minutes ago, evilleMonkeigh said:

Agree. I ENJOY Sims, it's FUN - but feel it is very overrated. It has the carrying ability of a soggy paper bag. Leningrad, Blyskawica, Maass are all better.  I think it's baked-in XP modifier makes people think they are doing better in it than they actually are. Haida-with-5.7km-detect, better HP and HE dpm makes Sims even more irrelevant at this role.

100% agreed. The Sims has been in the game for so long and is badly outdated. When it was released the only DDs in the game were IJN, which gave it an obvious advantage. 

In the current meta, with the additional DDs, it is badly outmatched. Expert players can do well with it, but it desperately needs a concealment buff and more viable torpedo options. 

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I do well in the Kidd. I even have a USS Kidd coffee cup from it's gift shop that a clan mate got for me when he visited it.

Edited by marine3567
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Not winning a lot in Kidd, not yet. 44% WR after a dozen games or so. I keep trying to do "team mate" stuff - spot, scout, cap, set fire to BBs, that sort of thing - and while damage is ok, it isn't great. After 100 games in Sims, 64% WR. No idea why.

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On 7/7/2018 at 3:18 PM, Thornir said:

Not winning a lot in Kidd, not yet. 44% WR after a dozen games or so. I keep trying to do "team mate" stuff - spot, scout, cap, set fire to BBs, that sort of thing - and while damage is ok, it isn't great. After 100 games in Sims, 64% WR. No idea why.

Be sure to attack AND disengage to heal THEN reengage.  Nothing special about the Kidd if you just keep pushing.

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The Kidd fits really well as a T8 premium with her layout, and being able to disengage and survive is a big plus.

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On 7/1/2018 at 10:40 PM, Falls_USMC said:

100% agreed. The Sims has been in the game for so long and is badly outdated. When it was released the only DDs in the game were IJN, which gave it an obvious advantage. 

In the current meta, with the additional DDs, it is badly outmatched. Expert players can do well with it, but it desperately needs a concealment buff and more viable torpedo options. 

Hey

I completely agree; the Sims is worth getting a buff to it's concealment and for goodness sake, some better torpedo's.  At least put more punch and faster speed into the torps she has to make them comparable to her enemies.  But DO NOT nerf her rudder shift/handling otherwise you would ruin her uniqueness.

 

Pete 

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29 minutes ago, sasquatch_research said:

the Sims is worth getting a buff to it's concealment and for goodness sake, some better torpedo's.  At least put more punch and faster speed into the torps she has to make them comparable to her enemies.  But DO NOT nerf her rudder shift/handling otherwise you would ruin her uniqueness.

Honestly, if they just gave her access to the T8 upgrade slot to mount concealment, that alone would instantly make her much more competitive. 

Then, Buff the damage on the 9.2km sea mines to like 10k, and up the speed to 55 knots. They'd basically be weak Benson torps at that point. 

Done. The Sims would be [more] fun again. 

 

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4 hours ago, Falls_USMC said:

Honestly, if they just gave her access to the T8 upgrade slot to mount concealment, that alone would instantly make her much more competitive. 

Then, Buff the damage on the 9.2km sea mines to like 10k, and up the speed to 55 knots. They'd basically be weak Benson torps at that point. 

Done. The Sims would be [more] fun again. 

 

Hey

I would have to agree.  A much needed buff to a very fun boat, updated 2.0

 

Pete

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On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 11:09 AM, Falls_USMC said:

Honestly, if they just gave her access to the T8 upgrade slot to mount concealment, that alone would instantly make her much more competitive. 

Then, Buff the damage on the 9.2km sea mines to like 10k, and up the speed to 55 knots. They'd basically be weak Benson torps at that point. 

Done. The Sims would be [more] fun again. 

 

I couldn't agree more. My only complaint about Sims is her very weak torpedo armament for her tier, both types. IMHO, that's what keeps Sims from being a excellent bote.

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