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Why hiding in a cloud of smoke is generally a bad idea for destroyers

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  Maybe I shouldn't have rushed cap lol maybe I shouldn't have hid in smoke to try and cap.  OPPS.

 

 

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gwoYVAp.jpg

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I think it was just a bad decision on my own part.  I should have known those torps were gonna come for the cloud of smoke lol.  Oh well live and learn.  I'm also giving a try doing some You Tube videos lol.  So I'm also experimenting with different things.

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You should've held your smoke. You don't want to be broadside in the smoke either or that happens. :Smile_teethhappy:

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11 minutes ago, jager_geist said:

You should've held your smoke. You don't want to be broadside in the smoke either or that happens. :Smile_teethhappy:

Its just one of those OPPS moments.  

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5 minutes ago, torpsRus said:

Its just one of those OPPS moments.  

Oops. OPPS is Operational Player Paralysis Syndrome

Edited by Sovereigndawg
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Smoke is so fun... It was probably an honest mistake. 

 

 

Edited by Huanghe

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Would have been nice if you cropped the first 2:30 0ff the video.

Also you set yourself up for failure. You only have a small smoke cloud and you stopped broadside to the enemy.  If I smoke in a cap I always wiggle my butt to face the enemy so I can speed out away if trouble starts.

Edited by Prothall

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Never stop in smoke, you can slow down but never stop. Then again my smoke is either for supporting my team with a nice wall or for running away. I generally like to pop a wall of smoke then do a u-turn back into the smoke and go dead slow while raining HE from it until the smoke is gone or the enemy spots me.

__________________________________Wall of Smoke 

vs

oooo Smoke

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27 minutes ago, MajorRenegade said:

gwoYVAp.jpg

Yeah, that has always seemed stupid. If you are not spotted save it for when you really need it.

5 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

I love it when I radar and the DD pops smoke in response.

It is likely that they see they are detected and didn't notice the radar/hydro indication.

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6 minutes ago, Prothall said:

Would have been nice if you cropped the first 2:30 0ff the video.

Also you set yourself up for failure. You only have a small smoke cloud and you stopped broadside to the enemy.  If I smoke in a cap I always wiggle my butt to face the enemy so I can speed out away if trouble starts.

I don't really know how to crop for videos just yet.  I'm still learning how to do this with editing and what not.

 

13 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

I love it when I radar and the DD pops smoke in response.

Even as a DD player I find that funny as all He double L

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6 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Yeah, that has always seemed stupid. If you are not spotted save it for when you really need it.

It is likely that they see they are detected and didn't notice the radar/hydro indication.

I will pop smoke if I am close to my allies and I see them getting attacked.

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Still new to destroyers, but this is why I like the German destroyers. When contesting caps early, and forced to pop smoke, I can then pop hydro as well. I don't know if it's the smartest thing to do, but so far it's been allowing me to out last my counterpart. Could just be getting lucky though.

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Russian DDs I think after tier 5 should have gotten Hydro.  But they didn't.  My only thought was the Hydro because the torpedoes are so weak forcing the player to use his or her guns.  Even at tier 8 the torpedoes fully upgraded are very weak.

Edited by torpsRus

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5 minutes ago, Vangm94 said:

I will pop smoke if I am close to my allies and I see them getting attacked.

That makes sense but remember that unless the cruisers/BB's are far back you smoke may not help them and may hinder them instead.

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2 minutes ago, cometguy said:

Still new to destroyers, but this is why I like the German destroyers. When contesting caps early, and forced to pop smoke, I can then pop hydro as well. I don't know if it's the smartest thing to do, but so far it's been allowing me to out last my counterpart. Could just be getting lucky though.

I learned by playing "weak" and applying that to the "strong". Though this mostly only applies to ships that have similar concealment. IJN DDs have the best stealth but are otherwise weak due to their low HP and slow guns. So I am willing to only get close to a cap until enemy contact has been made. Depending on that, I will either cap or runaway. With that concealment, I like to stay with my support and support them with my smoke. You can see a Battleship but you won't see the DD in front of it about to pop smoke for that Battleship.

 

Fubuki, HSF Harekaze, Asashio, Shimakaze, Fletcher, I use that tactic along with being a decoy or distraction.

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12 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

That makes sense but remember that unless the cruisers/BB's are far back you smoke may not help them and may hinder them instead.

I am not great yet with the timing but generally the idea is to be slightly in front of them before going full speed and engine boost then popping smoke and making it a huge wall. Depending on the situation, I will then go back around in front of my smoke and either attempt a torpedo attack or just spot the enemy for my support. I will also tell my team to "DON'T STOP IN THE SMOKE"

Edited by Vangm94
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When you pop smoke, back up and point your stern to the enemy direction.

Not only will this make you a smaller target for torps, it will also point you away from the enemy when you have to run.

Firing from smoke isn't an issue, being broadside to the enemy is.

Edited by Wulfgarn
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I do not play destroyers but I have noticed that a lot of cruiser players seem much more proficient at firing into smoke and hitting Destroyers consistently. Sitting in smoke seems to be a death sentence more often then not.

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12 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

I do not play destroyers but I have noticed that a lot of cruiser players seem much more proficient at firing into smoke and hitting Destroyers consistently. Sitting in smoke seems to be a death sentence more often then not.

Depends on if the DD has moved from their last spotted position while laying smoke since that spot will be fire on. Also depends on if Radar or Hydro gets used as well again the smoke. My favorite trick while in IJN DD is to send Torps into enemy smoke to find the enemy DDs or sometimes multiple enemy ships in the smoke lol.

Now a smoked Akizuki or a smoked cruiser that can spam HE like a machine gun, but weakly armored can be great asset for the team and do so safely. But typically you need somebody like an allied DD patrolling put in from of the smoke to spot the targets and to spit and incoming threats. Did this with Farragut in tier 8 match and nothing I could really do on that particular map I was on. So told couple of our CLs that would lay smoke and I layer it in great position to fire onnendmy team then I moved ahead about 2-4 KM and paced back and forth for 2 minutes to ensure both their safety and that enemy would stay spotted. Then few minutes later we repeated  this trick and enemy team was destroyed lol.

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Yeap.

 

Smoking for no reason inside objective is bad. There's zero reason to smoke into the objective in random battle. Also zero reason to sit in the smoke as a DD. If you have not the camo values to remain undetected in cap, simply retreat.

 

 

Edited by NeutralState

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Kiev (Russian DDs in general) rushing cap (or trying to cap at all in a Russian DD at match start), smoking and stopping when not detected (in a contested cap no less), and firing from that smoke when there's most definitely other DDs around.  Yup the trifecta. Saw it coming a mile away. Especially when a you had a few BBs detected. Where were their friends? BBs at that tier don't just move up without some sort of "support" (Meatshield). One was confirmed to be in the cap(he was undetected, and the cap was turning red before you got there).

 A case of wrong tool for the wrong job. Use German DDs for the kind of work you were trying to do. Having said that, the video looks familiar, I'm sure I have more than a few replays of me doing stuff like that too. As you say, Live and Learn. It's easy to armchair quarterback, hindsight is always 20/20 and all that. It's a bit different in the moment, as long as you learn from it. BTW, Kiev is a beast if used right. A mini Khab is a good analogy. Start fires from a distance, use speed and maneuverability to stay alive, and absolutely destroy almost any other DDs you come across.

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To be honest @torpsRus?  That's exactly what I hope an enemy DD player does when I'm playing in a gunboat DD, when I'm in the German DD's, especially with the Hydro.  Not knocking you or anything but just saying, that's prime example of what I hope happens.  If I may, I'll run you through what would be going through my mind as an enemy player, maybe it'll give you some tips and tricks/insight for you on the next sortie out of port.

First, When I'm contesting a cap in a DD that may not have the best concealment but is efficient at hunting, I tend to skirt the edges of a cap circle without actively capping.  If some time passes, no cap, then I'll move in.  But if the capture timer starts, well I know someone is in the circle and it narrows down their location.  I can use the spotting circle of my ship (If I'm undetected I know where the enemy DD isn't currently) and even the capture circle itself and get a general idea of where the enemy is, even without the RPF skill.  When I start to move in I keep an eye on the map and as soon as I'm detected it'll give me some further information on where the enemy is likely to be just by using the circles. 

Second.  If I see the cap starting to be captured and then a random smoke cloud appears?  Well I know smoke blocks line of sight and all that but man, in the circumstances like that it's just a giant, flashing, neon, "SHOOT HERE" symbol lol.  If I'm in a German DD, I know exactly where to start pushing towards to get the best use of my Hydro search. 

Now, with that said, it's not foolproof.  You can do a few things that can really screw with someone who's playing the way I play mentioned above.  First, instead of slowing down, keep that line of smoke going until the generator stops, then circle back around into the smoke.  A long line of smoke offers a much bigger target to guess at where the enemy DD hiding in it is.  Granted with the Shima torps he has enough to saturate the area but a single launcher like on the Kidd or Akizuki will have trouble saturating the area.  If the Akizuki tries it well you just helped out your team by making him shoot his torps AND probably wasting his torp reload booster. 

Laying the long line of smoke will help your team move up a little as well, get some cruisers more comfortable to push and support when a DD eventually appears, will also offer some cover for further away ships when th ey open fire, even if they're not sitting inside the smoke screen.  Finally, broadside offers the best target.  Gives you the least amount of reaction time (especially if slowing, speeding up, or stopping).  Always try to be angled or ideall bow or stern on.  Especially at the higher tiers I recommend stern into the cap, back into the circle.  Not only does this give you the best acceleration to get up to speed and get out of the torps way, it will give you the best chance to run from the radar should it come to play as well. 

Added bonus, if I was an enemy DD and dropped torps into the smoke like that?  Missed the target?  Well now I've got some doubt in my mind.  Did he lay the smoke for the team and motored his way to another part of the cap circle?  Now I can't tell if you dodged and are sitting in the smoke, or have gone to another position and might catch me off guard, will make my playstyle a little more passive, and in some of the DD's that uncertainty might let you get the jump on them which would be all you might need to win the gun battle. 

But again, just my line of though and opinions, take them with how much you paid for it :cap_like:

 

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