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Is Moskva worth it?

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  After playing my Kiev for a while seeing how much fun the Russian line actually is, I said what the heck and bought my Donskoi back.  How ever I'm not a cruiser player normally.  I'm a DD and BB main.  But I tried US cruisers didn't like them because of the short ranged guns.  How ever I worked up the Russian line until Donskoi and went ADHD and sold the ship.  Fortunately I had yet to grind out the B and C hulls and the GFC upgrade.  So like I said already I bought it back.  But myself not being a cruiser player is it going to be worth it in my long run to just finish it out as well and get the Moskva?

 

I've seen Moskva being played in game many many times.  It looks like a fun ship to play but as I said I'm not the best cruiser player usually I will get deleted instantly because I did something stupid or was not paying attention.  I do know not to show full broadside in them.  I at least know that.  I also know that I cant really stay back and snipe in them either.  So I'm not exactly sure what I should do on this one.

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Well I am on the Chapayev but I love it so far. The line seems to be more sitting back and providing long range fire. I love being able to reliably hit DD’s from distance and the radar. I think the line is worth it. You just have to not lead the push and know when to kite. Most games I play about 12km from the enemy angled away kiting. Just whatever you do, don’t show your broadside.

As a DD main, you might not like it becuase it isn’t much of in the action up front gameplay but the ship is worth it if you want to branch out.

Edited by Belyy_Klyk
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The Moskva is my favorite ship in the game. You guys have inspired me to do a set of videos on it, how to ideally build it and the 3 base methods to use it in fighting. 

 

I will mention this though, it has the best range for a cruiser (22.5km), can citadel ships at 20+ km, has a soft arc on the guns (making them more accurate), and is the only cruiser that I have been able to citadel every BB type in the game.

 

I will put the videos up here when I get them made.

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she will get a buff to her bow armor,50mm of armor i think.

 

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It has great guns. And is one of my Fav tier 10s!!! ( I have all tier tens except CV's) 

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It's a powerful Cruiser but you have to be careful.  Sh*t concealment, strong on the bow, especially after they buff the lower belt of the bow to 50mm (only the top of the bow is 25mm and the deck behind is 50mm).  The sides are amazingly squishy which is scary when you consider how large she is.  Position is everything with Moskva, because if caught on the sides, she dies just as quickly as Minotaur.  The guns are like lasers.  After playing other ships and going to Moskva, I have to keep reminding myself to cut the amount of lead in my aim, otherwise I'll miss badly because the shells fly so fast.

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It does not play the same as the rest of the line so you basically have to take everything you learned and throw it out the window.  It's tanky, but as everyone else has said, the positioning is important and you *will* get focused a lot because people want to get rid of your radar (and you end up being a relatively stationary target that's spotted from everywhere, so it's not that hard to hit you if you make the mistake of getting too close too soon).  Also for all the Battleship Moskva memes, it is most definitely a cruiser.  If you try to nose tank anything with bigger than 381mm guns, you will eat a lot of damage through the nose from overmatching.  You have to get your angling right and hope they're bad at aiming or hope you can bait them into shooting the belt.

A well-played Moskva can be a nightmare for the enemy team though, so if you get it right it's quite strong.

Edited by Deviathan

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After doing so well with the Chappy and Donskoi, I was very disappointed with how awful I am with the Moskva.

YMMV, but it's definitely not the same experience as the previous ships in the line.

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1 minute ago, Deviathan said:

It does not play the same as the rest of the line so you basically have to take everything you learned and throw it out the window.  It's tanky, but as everyone else has said, the positioning is important and you *will* get focused a lot because people want to get rid of your radar.  Also for all the Battleship Moskva memes, it is most definitely a cruiser.  If you try to nose tank anything with bigger than 381mm guns, you will eat a lot of damage through the nose from overmatching.  You have to get your angling right and hope they're bad at aiming or hope you can bait them into shooting the belt.

25mm plating is overmatched by 380 guns: every +t8bb. With Moskva you have to bait bbs into shooting your 50mm mid plate; which is precarious because if they undershoot they will hit the 25mm bow and right into the flat side of the triangular ~170mm citadel bulkhead.

Moskva is a great ship with great capabilities. However, shes a cruiser and can and will be deleted like a cruiser from any range if you dont take the time and give the enemy mind.

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I'm a terrible cruiser player in general.  But I at least try to play them.  

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I have the Moskva, it is a very powerful and nice ship if played properly, especially with its laser railguns and tough armor if angled correctly. However, if you don’t play it correctly it can melt easily. It’s not the easiest ship to play but it is very good once you get the hang of it

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Also use your AP as much as you can, you can easily citadel battleships at the right ranges, and can delete cruisers from across the map effortlessly

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6 minutes ago, Crokodone said:

25mm plating is overmatched by 380 guns: every +t8bb. With Moskva you have to bait bbs into shooting your 50mm mid plate; which is precarious because if they undershoot they will hit the 25mm bow and right into the flat side of the triangular ~170mm citadel bulkhead.

Moskva is a great ship with great capabilities. However, shes a cruiser and can and will be deleted like a cruiser from any range if you dont take the time and give the enemy mind.

Thanks for the math help, I just remembered that the only things I didn't have to worry about overmatching my nose were the Richelieu, Alsace, Bismarck and Tirpitz.  I was playing a while back and got stuck having to fight over a cap in a 1 on 1 situation with a really good Montana player at the end of a game, and there was not a lot of tanking I was able to do.  Most players are not going to take or make the shots that he was, but even with a solid angle there wasn't much I could do.

Edited by Deviathan

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Yes because you play this song while driving the boat which boosts its awesomeness factor to over 9000!!!!

 

 

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Just now, RipNuN2 said:

Yes because you play this song while driving the boat which boosts its awesomeness factor to over 9000!!!!

 

 

Some late 70s early 80s Retro lol.

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2 minutes ago, Deviathan said:

Thanks for the math help, I just remembered that the only things I didn't have to worry about overmatching my nose were the Richelieu, Alsace, Bismarck and Tirpitz.  I was playing a while back and got stuck having to fight over a cap in a 1 on 1 situation with a really good Montana player at the end of a game, and there was not a lot of tanking I was able to do.  Most players are not going to take or make the shots that he was, but even with a solid angle there wasn't much I could do.

I use the propulsion mod on my Moskva for this very reason. Reverse and stopping and advancing throws off allot of peoples aim. But getting bbs to hit that 50mm mid belt is either the pain or gain. 

I try to keep a 12km buffer between my Moskva and BBs. 12km feels like were dispersion and shell velocity starts to take effect.

 

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2 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Yes because you play this song while driving the boat which boosts its awesomeness factor to over 9000!!!!

 

 

Yuro made that famous.

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41 minutes ago, Crokodone said:

25mm plating is overmatched by 380 guns: every +t8bb. With Moskva you have to bait bbs into shooting your 50mm mid plate; which is precarious because if they undershoot they will hit the 25mm bow and right into the flat side of the triangular ~170mm citadel bulkhead.

Moskva is a great ship with great capabilities. However, shes a cruiser and can and will be deleted like a cruiser from any range if you dont take the time and give the enemy mind.

 

34 minutes ago, Deviathan said:

Thanks for the math help, I just remembered that the only things I didn't have to worry about overmatching my nose were the Richelieu, Alsace, Bismarck and Tirpitz.  I was playing a while back and got stuck having to fight over a cap in a 1 on 1 situation with a really good Montana player at the end of a game, and there was not a lot of tanking I was able to do.  Most players are not going to take or make the shots that he was, but even with a solid angle there wasn't much I could do.

One of the recent ST blogs said that Moskava was getting 50mm bow and stern armor buff.

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1 minute ago, Kizarvexis said:

 

One of the recent ST blogs said that Moskava was getting 50mm bow and stern armor buff.

Il believe it when it goes live. Until then its baiting shots with propulsion mod till i die..

When wg gives moskva 50mm for/aft belt plating, il switch to stearing gears to jibe.

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1 minute ago, Crokodone said:

Il believe it when it goes live. Until then its baiting shots with propulsion mod till i die..

When wg gives moskva 50mm for/aft belt plating, il switch to stearing gears to jibe.

 

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Not a big fan of the Russian CL's outside of the Premiums but Moskva is great. Whole different playstyle. What kind of sucks is you build a Capt as you climb the line and when you get to Moskva you can throw the build out the window as it no longer fits. I had a 19pt Capt on Donskoi that I now just use on Kutuzov, Molotov, etc... as it isn't suited to Moskva but if I respec it then it is no longer optimal for the Premiums. :Smile_sceptic: So I did a separate Capt for Moskva and use that on Kronshtadt too.

Moskva is a lot tougher than the CL's when you angle properly and go bow on but don't get cocky in it as the sides are just as squishy and as already has been stated it can get roflstomped right through the bow. It at least has a little room for error unlike the others however.

Concealment stinks and it is a bit sluggish turning but the guns are lolpentastic and the AA is good. The AP is truly devastating and with MBM3 the guns fire fast enough that you can put a big hurt on the enemy in a short period of time. That includes BB's. I had a 4 citadel salvo vs a Yamato and have had some 2-3 cit salvos vs US BB's.

Good ship and I like it a lot. WAY more than the CL's. Didn't keep 1 of them.

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If you're looking for a dynamic moving, open water fighting ship, Moskva isn't that kind of ship.  In fact, despite the low shell arcs and super-fast flying shells, long range, she is closer to Des Moines in that she's more "static."  If Moskva is trying to be sailed in open water turning, weaving, speeding around, she is huge and clumsy with very lazy turns, and hits to the sides devastate her.  If things are collapsing around Moskva, she's in big trouble.  Does she keep reversing and eat shots?  That's a slow guaranteed death.  But then again, if forced to turn, the MASSIVE SIDES of the ship invite disaster.

 

But like Des Moines, if she uses terrain to protect her or simply find ways to limit what is shooting at her, she will shine.  The difference is where DM looks to fire over islands, Moskva uses islands to mask their sides.  If Moskva gets to camp at 17km or so with islands covering her sides, providing gun support for her team, she is absolutely annoying a.f. that way.

 

It has to stressed again, that if she is forced to try to dodge and weave in open water, flashing her sides even occasionally, disaster is bound to happen.  I cannot overemphasize how big she is.

 

Someone in this thread mentioned how different she is from the other RU Cruisers.  This is 100% true.  If you were expecting Budyonny, Chapayev but with Big Russian Railguns, Moskva is nothing at all like that.  She is a bigger, clumsier, but stronger version of Dmitri Donskoi, and kind of like Kronshtadt, than the likes of Budyonny, Chapayev, Molotov, Schors.

 

A capacity where Moskva is very deadly in, is finding a cozy flank camping spot and punishing ships from there.  If she has enough range to still be laser accurate but hard for BBs to hit, as well as having islands covering her sides, Moskva is hard to root out.

 

Personally, my big mistake when first getting Moskva was trying to play her like a "normal" Cruiser speeding, maneuvering in open water.  I was getting rekt like that and had to change accordingly.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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2 hours ago, torpsRus said:

  After playing my Kiev for a while seeing how much fun the Russian line actually is, I said what the heck and bought my Donskoi back.  How ever I'm not a cruiser player normally.  I'm a DD and BB main.  But I tried US cruisers didn't like them because of the short ranged guns.  How ever I worked up the Russian line until Donskoi and went ADHD and sold the ship.  Fortunately I had yet to grind out the B and C hulls and the GFC upgrade.  So like I said already I bought it back.  But myself not being a cruiser player is it going to be worth it in my long run to just finish it out as well and get the Moskva?

 

I've seen Moskva being played in game many many times.  It looks like a fun ship to play but as I said I'm not the best cruiser player usually I will get deleted instantly because I did something stupid or was not paying attention.  I do know not to show full broadside in them.  I at least know that.  I also know that I cant really stay back and snipe in them either.  So I'm not exactly sure what I should do on this one.

I made a big mistake with Donskoi and respecced out of IFHE 1 ship too early. The 180s are not big enough against BBs without IFHE and most of your shells shatter. I just got the Moskva and so far like it much better. Hard to say how much of this is due to not having the right captain skills with the Donskoi but the Moskva AP is way better.

Also Moskva doesn't have a ton of armor but it has enough if you choose your engagements wisely. It doesn't seem to be good at kiting so it's bad concealment is a problem when dealing with flank collapse which is at epidemic levels now.

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

If you're looking for a dynamic moving, open water fighting ship, Moskva isn't that kind of ship.  In fact, despite the low shell arcs and super-fast flying shells, long range, she is closer to Des Moines in that she's more "static."  If Moskva is trying to be sailed in open water turning, weaving, speeding around, she is huge and clumsy with very lazy turns, and hits to the sides devastate her.  If things are collapsing around Moskva, she's in big trouble.  Does she keep reversing and eat shots?  That's a slow guaranteed death.  But then again, if forced to turn, the MASSIVE SIDES of the ship invite disaster.

 

But like Des Moines, if she uses terrain to protect her or simply find ways to limit what is shooting at her, she will shine.  The difference is where DM looks to fire over islands, Moskva uses islands to mask their sides.  If Moskva gets to camp at 17km or so with islands covering her sides, providing gun support for her team, she is absolutely annoying a.f. that way.

 

It has to stressed again, that if she is forced to try to dodge and weave in open water, flashing her sides even occasionally, disaster is bound to happen.  I cannot overemphasize how big she is.

 

Someone in this thread mentioned how different she is from the other RU Cruisers.  This is 100% true.  If you were expecting Budyonny, Chapayev but with Big Russian Railguns, Moskva is nothing at all like that.  She is a bigger, clumsier, but stronger version of Dmitri Donskoi, and kind of like Kronshtadt, than the likes of Budyonny, Chapayev, Molotov, Schors.

 

A capacity where Moskva is very deadly in, is finding a cozy flank camping spot and punishing ships from there.  If she has enough range to still be laser accurate but hard for BBs to hit, as well as having islands covering her sides, Moskva is hard to root out.

 

Personally, my big mistake when first getting Moskva was trying to play her like a "normal" Cruiser speeding, maneuvering in open water.  I was getting rekt like that and had to change accordingly.

This guy basically said everything I wanted to. 

The Moskva is an amazing ship with a unique and rewarding playstlye. The trick is managing the middle distance between Des Moines rock hugging and Hindenburg open water shelling. Stay nearish the rocks, but don't hug them. The rocks are Moskva side plating that allow you the window to swap from angling in aggressively when times are good, to angling out when times are bad and you need to create that 13km buffer to play vision games with the ship. Don't expect to shoot over those islands. They also let you close into radar distance. This is your game plan for the first 7ish minutes of play generally.

Other tricks: do the third gun jiggle when you have to combat a BB. When they shoot try for a 20ish degree angle on their shots, then move back to your third gun if you can while they reload. Moving down to half speed or sometimes a quarter speed is best here. You want to be able to turn, but you also don't want to close that distance.

Take as many broadside AP cruiser volleys as you can. This is your main job. Don't do this to a Zao who knows you are shooting them. They will dodge and while your guns are accurate, they have trouble getting accurate enough to actually citadel this ship at the distances you normally encounter it.

Des Moines is a nose fight. Don't angle, just shoot nose on and hope you can disengage soon.

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