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Re Spec Captain with AFT WOW these shells are FLOATY!

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  So I posted earlier that I wanted to respect my Kiev captain.  I did add AFT to him.  Which brings the main battery firing range out to a grand whopping total of 14.7KM.  The shells seem incredibly floaty.  I know it's a bad comparison using the Atlanta, but my Atlanta captain is built for AA and has AFT.  Which the main bat firing range is only 13.1 after all is said.  I'm trying to figure out how my Kiev even though it's only a tier 8 vs a 7 has a farther range than even some cruisers do.  Well in the end I'm liking in the re speced captain.  Thanks for all the input forum groupies.  With AFT here are some crazy images.  It was a win and did I by no means carry the team but I still had fun trying to figure out how to aim with the increased range of Kiev.

 

shot-18.06.19_13.23.46-0769.jpg

shot-18.06.19_13.33.43-0879.jpg

shot-18.06.19_13.34.53-0253.jpg

Edited by SuperSpud1

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I would have buffed the rof instead of extra smoke. Only disadvantage of bft is now youre seen across the map. But when you open up that’s not to be avoided. Concealment is also essential for these since your base rate is so bad.

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3 minutes ago, monpetitloup said:

I would have buffed the rof instead of extra smoke. Only disadvantage of bft is now youre seen across the map. But when you open up that’s not to be avoided. Concealment is also essential for these since your base rate is so bad.

Win rate has nothing to do with the topic.  Win rate may have some part in it but I really don't care about it.  So please leave it out when commenting thank you.

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As far as concealment rate.  I'm not worried about it.  The next 4 points I get goes into concealment, sorry I miss read or miss understood what he was saying.  How ever I tend to use my guns quite a bit.  Its just the basics of being able to dodge shells which is pretty easily managed.  Unless there happens to be a crap ton of radar.

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I use my Mahan captain in my Atlanta with AFT and the guns go out to 13.3.

But if I put him in my Sims the guns go out to 15.2 then if I put him in my Kidd the guns only go out 14.4. They all have the same 127mm guns.

 

Smaller caliber guns will always be floaty you just have to learn to zoom out and lead by a two football fields to hit anything.

Edited by CorradoG60

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2 minutes ago, CorradoG60 said:

I use my Mahan captain in my Atlanta with AFT and the guns go out to 13.3.

But if I put him in my Sims the guns go out to 15.2 then if I put him in my Kidd the guns only go out 14.4. They all have the same 127mm guns.

 

Smaller caliber guns will always be floaty you just have to learn to zoom out and lead by a two football fields to hit anything.

That's what Ive been working on is learning to adjust my aim to the travel distance. Just a challenge to hit the target sometimes.  But it's manageable.  I had one guy already in a game go wth Kiev l m f a o.

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Just now, SuperSpud1 said:

That's what Ive been working on is learning to adjust my aim to the travel distance. Just a challenge to hit the target sometimes.  But it's manageable.  I had one guy already in a game go wth Kiev l m f a o.

You'll get there with practice. The Atlanta taught me a lot about the lead time of small caliber guns and now I can sit back and rain shells on them poor suckers.

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21 minutes ago, SuperSpud1 said:

Win rate has nothing to do with the topic.  Win rate may have some part in it but I really don't care about it.  So please leave it out when commenting thank you.

I never mentioned win rate. Nor have i ever.

rof= rate of fire = bft = tier 3 captain skill. I said i would have taken that skill (and i have) over The one you chose as first tier 3 skill.

base rate i meant stock concealment rate of kiev, which like all soviet dds is abhorrently high. Thus i would have taken concealment expert first.

Edited by monpetitloup

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10 minutes ago, monpetitloup said:

I never mentioned win rate. Nor have i ever.

rof= rate of fire = bft = tier 3 captain skill. I said i would have taken that skill (and i have) over The one you chose as first tier 3 skill.

base rate i meant stock concealment rate of kiev, which like all soviet dds is abhorrently high. Thus i would have taken concealment expert first.

Like I said I did apologize for that I miss read.  I'm actually okay with stock concealment, I've actually been staying alive more with it amazingly enough.  I could have done better with my choices but its okay live and learn.  How ever I still have a ways to go to get this guy up to 19 points. On destroyers I've never taken BFT.  I've always seem to do semi okay on them.  But even now with out the concealment on Kiev I use my guns more than I have my torps.  So the concealment unless I'm hiding in smoke for some reason hasn't been that big of a deal to me.  Its not hard to dodge shells unless they are up close and personal.

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10 second shell flight time at a range of 14.63km?  That's freaking great.  You tried firing Cleveland shells out to 15km?

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I don't own Cleveland lol I don't play cruisers.

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There is a very good reason NOT to use AFT on the Atlanta, but to use it on the Kiev, that tied to the shell velocity and gun bloom detection ranges of the ships.  Atlanta has 5"/38 guns, notorious for extremely slow shell velocity leading to super floaty shells.  There is no way to consistently hit a fast and maneuverable ship at 13km with the Atlanta's guns, so while you are gaining range, you aren't gaining usable range.  the Atlanta without AFT functions much better in the DD assassin role, simply waiting until a DD comes within your gun and radar range and killing it as quickly as possible, this also works on lightly armored cruisers.  The upside of this, is that you will be invisible to ships past your 11km gun range the second that DD is dead.  The Atlanta is fairly large and is one giant citadel with no discernible armor, being able to go dark when needed is a critical skill, NOT using AFT helps with that.  Does it cut down your AA range, yes.  Does it make it any less terrifying to CV's, not really, your DEF AA consumable is what they fear, and with BFT employed, you are still a very powerful AA deterrent.

The Kiev is relatively small and very fast DD, it's harder to hit the further away it is, so using AFT to extend the gun range is actually a defensive upgrade for the ship.  The guns shells may seem floaty at that range, they still are laser like compared to US DD guns, allowing accurate fire to rain down on BB's.  I would still keep the concealment module for it, because the torps on it are very useful and can be fired from concealment.

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That's actually one thing I more appreciate with the Kiev over the Atlanta, at full range I can actually hit a target while it's moving and cause a significant amount of damage just by spamming shells.  Just wish I had a faster reload lol.

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Have you ever tried Aigle with AFT?

Slinging 139mm (the absolute upper limit caliber) from 15km away is lulz.

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You'll have to get used to the leads and angles at that range, but if you got good with the Gnevny and Minsk then it's basically more of the same.  Also I highly recommend PT over PM and SE over SI, and you'll want Last Stand instead of SSE.  These are big deals because people will hate you and try to get rid of you to stop you from pecking them to death, so the extra health and the knowledge of "hey I should stop shooting for a minute now" is important.  Smoking up to shoot is a luxury, if you're doing it right then you'll mostly be spotted and firing.  If you're eventually grinding up to the Tashkent and Khaba, this is a style that you'll have to get used to.  Your best tactic is to get people to chase you.  Angle away from your target and fire over your shoulder, try to wiggle and not spend too much time broadside, and be aware of the angle you're giving to the enemy team.

Edited by Deviathan

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1 minute ago, Deviathan said:

You'll have to get used to the leads and angles at that range, but if you got good with the Gnevny and Minsk then it's basically more of the same.  Also I highly recommend PT over PM and SE over SI, and you'll want Last Stand instead of SSE.  These are big deals because people will hate you and try to get rid of you to stop you from pecking them to death, so the extra health and the knowledge of "hey I should stop shooting for a minute now" is important.  Smoking up to shoot is a luxury, if you're doing it right then you'll mostly be spotted and firing.  If you're eventually grinding up to the Tashkent and Khaba, this is a style that you'll have to get used to.  Your best tactic is to get people to chase you.  Angle away from your target and fire over your shoulder, try to wiggle and not spend too much time broadside, and be aware of the angle you're giving to the enemy team.

Lol speaking of Minsk I actually respect that captain as well because eventually I'll work up to Grozovoi so I started training the captain for Minsk for Grozovoi and put AFT on him as well.  So I basically killed two birds with one stone fortunately I re speced both of them early on instead of at 19 points.

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Just now, SuperSpud1 said:

Lol speaking of Minsk I actually respect that captain as well because eventually I'll work up to Grozovoi so I started training the captain for Minsk for Grozovoi and put AFT on him as well.  So I basically killed two birds with one stone fortunately I re speced both of them early on instead of at 19 points.

You might want CE first if you are below 14 points for that line. Ognevoi is very stealthy (6.1km at full spec) for a Russian DD and I've heard that Grozovoi is pretty stealthy too. Keep in mind that the secondary line isn't the speed demon like the mainline that can afford to speed boost and spam away at max range...

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I'm not going for Grozovoi right away,  I've gotta get through the main line and get Khab first.

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14 minutes ago, SuperSpud1 said:

Lol speaking of Minsk I actually respect that captain as well because eventually I'll work up to Grozovoi so I started training the captain for Minsk for Grozovoi and put AFT on him as well.  So I basically killed two birds with one stone fortunately I re speced both of them early on instead of at 19 points.

The Grozovoi line, I spec'd and run more like I did with the Kiev/Ognevoi and all the RU DDs leading up to them, a hybrid of open water gunboat build and classical stealth DD build (ie, CE and concealment mod along with PT/AFT/BFT).  The Tashkent and Khaba are special beasts and I ended up dropping any sort of concealment for both of them in favor of going all in on guns and maneuverability.  Also after the Kiev/Ognevoi, the turrets no longer need Expert Marksman so that's 2 points you can squirrel into something else.

Edited by Deviathan

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29 minutes ago, Deviathan said:

The Grozovoi line, I spec'd and run more like I did with the Kiev/Ognevoi and all the RU DDs leading up to them, a hybrid of open water gunboat build and classical stealth DD build (ie, CE and concealment mod along with PT/AFT/BFT).  The Tashkent and Khaba are special beasts and I ended up dropping any sort of concealment for both of them in favor of going all in on guns and maneuverability.  Also after the Kiev/Ognevoi, the turrets no longer need Expert Marksman so that's 2 points you can squirrel into something else.

If you are mainly using your guns with floppy short ranged torpedoes.  I use my guns more than torpedoes I'm finding.  So I decided to actually drop the conceal meant and just start building my captain for the way I want it since it will be the same captain that I use for the Khab.  Having the increased ranged is great  Using torpedoes for me is basically a defensive statue.  With the gun fire though since invisifire is LONG gone, when guns fire even with concealment expert you light up on the mini map and are visible. So with a gun boat there really is no point in it.  How ever IJN is a bit different and I would actually have concealment.  But for RU dds I don't really see the point.

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51 minutes ago, SuperSpud1 said:

If you are mainly using your guns with floppy short ranged torpedoes.  I use my guns more than torpedoes I'm finding.  So I decided to actually drop the conceal meant and just start building my captain for the way I want it since it will be the same captain that I use for the Khab.  Having the increased ranged is great  Using torpedoes for me is basically a defensive statue.  With the gun fire though since invisifire is LONG gone, when guns fire even with concealment expert you light up on the mini map and are visible. So with a gun boat there really is no point in it.  How ever IJN is a bit different and I would actually have concealment.  But for RU dds I don't really see the point.

I understand the line of thought, it makes sense if you're building the captain in preparation for the Khab and a lot of people roll with all of them on that philosophy.  I'll outline the reasoning behind the skill decisions I made, and hopefully they'll make sense.

The captain skill changes for me came from 8-->9 instead of 7-->8.  I used AFT and BFT on all of them, but I only really dropped CE and the concealment module when it came to the Tashkent and Khab.  The Kiev (and the DDs leading up to it) can certainly function on the same captain build as the Khab and Tashkent with no concealment, but you do get usable torps on the Kiev/Ognevoi/Udaloi/Grozovoi, and being able to break detection when you're getting nailed is a big help since none of them have access to a heal like the Tash and Khab do**, and concealment build Kiev has ok-ish concealment at 7.1km (not great, but you can sorta do *some* DD things, the others are more stealthy than it with concealment builds and can actually do cap contesting fairly well).  The rest also don't suffer from the maneuverability issues that the Tash and Khab have to deal with (3.8s rudder shift with just SGM2 on the Kiev), which is what forces them into the double rudder builds if they don't want to maneuver like a hippo.  So yeah, concealment building a DD isn't always about the torping, sometimes there's other reasons in play.

 

**Upcoming changes to the Grozovoi may change a couple of the skills I choose for it, but the overall aim of the build will be the same for me

Edited by Deviathan

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2 hours ago, monpetitloup said:

I never mentioned win rate. Nor have i ever.

rof= rate of fire = bft = tier 3 captain skill. I said i would have taken that skill (and i have) over The one you chose as first tier 3 skill.

base rate i meant stock concealment rate of kiev, which like all soviet dds is abhorrently high. Thus i would have taken concealment expert first.

Honestly, CE is not an  absolute requirement for all RU DDs.  For me, the primary factor for deciding whether to take CE or not is the DDs torpedoes.   If CE will let me stealth torp, then I'd probably take CE.  If not, I'd rather save it for either AFT or IFHE.  I don't run CE on my Khab, because I use those 4 points for more important things.

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