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NeutralState

BB Legendary Upgrades are Turds Compare to Cruiser's

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The DD and cruiser legendary upgrades are all beyond god like. In comparison, BB's upgrades are just suck. No BB in their right mind would take the new rudder shift and fire control buff to get in closer. Because that's not the main reason BBs die quickly. The improvements in rudder shift time is pointless, just... in what situation currently people playing BBs think to themselves "geeeez 1 sec faster rudder shift would've so carry the game there" - almost never.

WG should stop inflating T10 performances with "upgrade" modules. People don't like to play T8 or above because the economy suck, not because they don't like powerful ships.

Edited by NeutralState
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Not necessarily. Example, Henri IV.

  • –12% to main battery loading time
  • +8% to main battery maximum firing range
  • +10% to detectability

The first 2 are fine but the +10% to detectability? Hell, Henri can already be seen from the adjoining time zone. The pros in no way compensate for the con. I'll pass.

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12 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

WG should stop inflating T10 performances with "upgrade" modules. People don't like to play T8 or above because the economy suck, not because they don't like powerful ships.

Not going to argue with the first part because I’m not a fan of some of the modules but I will say what could you improve on BB’s since they are already able to punish pretty heavily. I think it’s an interesting idea but could use more work.

The second part though... people don’t like playing tier 8 or above? A select group I guess but to me nothing about the economy sucks. I guess if you decide to not run flags or camo or don’t have premium time I could be tough but plenty of camos and flags are given out to keep you up there. If anything I would say the tier 9 and 10 eco needs to be worse to keep people playing tier 8 and lower to earn silver and that would help with the uptiering a lot.

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4 minutes ago, ReddNekk said:

Not necessarily. Example, Henri IV.

  • –12% to main battery loading time
  • +8% to main battery maximum firing range
  • +10% to detectability

The first 2 are fine but the +10% to detectability? Hell, Henri can already be seen from the adjoining time zone. The pros in no way compensate for the con. I'll pass.

I would argue opposite... the pros outweigh the cons because you already don’t have good concealment. Just like the Russian DD’s if you accept your concealment sucks and play to your advantages and don’t bother with concealment then does it really matter?

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Yeah B.B. are over represented in the meta and WoWS has stated they want that changed.

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36 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

The DD and cruiser legendary upgrades are all beyond god like. In comparison, BB's upgrades are just suck.

Actually I thought the DD/Cruiser upgrades had more suckage then the BB ones.

Conq one is amazing, SGM3 should just be a thing :v
Montana one is pretty good too if you play it right, Kurfurst one doest really have downsides imo.
Yamato is a straight buff, Republiques one I don't like. The reload boost just doest seem enough for what you lose compared to normal reload mod.

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Few of them seem wildly out of whack, cruiser, destroyer or battleship. There are a few to keep a close eye on.

What they may well do however is increase yet again games played at T10 as people grind for them specifically by playing those T10's.

 

So enjoy yourself at T8 while you can, because you're going to get bottom-tiered even more.

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I could agrue Moskva's legendary mod is simply a worse version of the range mod.

Cruisers already have good dispersion so this part of the legendary mod doesn't do much, Range mod gives more range than legendary mod, range mod doesnt reduce turret rotation rate. So not all cruisers got amazing mods.

If Moskva got Henri's legendary mod though I'd use it in a heartbeat. On that mod I do feel the benefits way outweigh the small con.

Edited by Phaere

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idk why but I am looking forward to the kurfurst changes as I tend to use that boat as a close range brawler vs sitting in the far back all day long.

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I know that Yamato module is gonna suck. The problem is its gonna suck for everyone being shot at by the Yammy. Because, you know, the most accurate BB in the game, with the biggest guns, absolutely needed its accuracy buffed.

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1 hour ago, NeutralState said:

The DD and cruiser legendary upgrades are all beyond god like. In comparison, BB's upgrades are just suck. No BB in their right mind would take the new rudder shift and fire control buff to get in closer. Because that's not the main reason BBs die quickly. The improvements in rudder shift time is pointless, just... in what situation currently people playing BBs think to themselves "geeeez 1 sec faster rudder shift would've so carry the game there" - almost never.

WG should stop inflating T10 performances with "upgrade" modules. People don't like to play T8 or above because the economy suck, not because they don't like powerful ships.

I don't know about that.

GK's looks good.

Montana's might actually make me pull her out of mothballs.

. . . and you're wrong on the high tier play issue.  I couldn't care less about the economy.  I have $140M credits piled up and it grows daily.  A lot of people have a lot more than that.

I don't play high tier games because they are often boring camp fests.  Anything that enables ships to better challenge that meta is a good thing in my book.

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1 hour ago, ReddNekk said:

Not necessarily. Example, Henri IV.

  • –12% to main battery loading time
  • +8% to main battery maximum firing range
  • +10% to detectability

The first 2 are fine but the +10% to detectability? Hell, Henri can already be seen from the adjoining time zone. The pros in no way compensate for the con. I'll pass.

To be fair, if you're using that max range, you can go dark anyway.

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2 hours ago, ReddNekk said:

Not necessarily. Example, Henri IV.

  • –12% to main battery loading time
  • +8% to main battery maximum firing range
  • +10% to detectability

The first 2 are fine but the +10% to detectability? Hell, Henri can already be seen from the adjoining time zone. The pros in no way compensate for the con. I'll pass.

I'll agree on this.  But to add, most the USN Upgrades are terrible.  Worcester has some merit.

Spoiler

 

But since the OP is on a "BB upgrades < Cruisers" tangent, let's look at Des Memes'.

–50% to time taken to reach full power when accelerating (improved acceleration)
–20% to rudder shift time
–10% to duration of the Surveillance Radar

This is garbage a.f.  Not only are the benefits poor, you're nerfing DM's Radar time also?  Especially when WG is going to nerf Radar Upgrade time on top of this even without the upgrade?  I'd have to be stupid to slot this.

 

Hindenburg, Slot 5 replaces the valuable CSM1 upgrade.  While funny on the notion that Fires become a non-issue, it's pointless to me.  Fires are not a concern to me in a Cruiser like it is on a Battleship.  I can already easily deal with Fires on a Cruiser, so throwing out my Stealth Build on Hindy for the sake of a threat I already easily manage, is pointless to me.

I have very mixed feelings on the Minotaur one, especially since it affects concealment, which is a major point for her.

Worcester's has merit but it has serious concessions because it replaces CSM1, and stealth is of big importance to Radar Cruisers to do their job and for survival.  But longer Radar, Hydro, DF active time can be amazing.

Moskva's looks pretty respectable.

On initial viewing, Zao's looks like a sure winner as there are no immediate, glaring con's to it.  Until I note that it cuts the possible range compared to taking +16% range with APRM1 in the same slot.  The Legendary cuts the extra range to +8% while providing benefits that aren't really that important to Zao.  Zao is already super accurate, her stealth and positioning don't make Rudder Shifting as big a deal as it is on German and French Cruisers fighting in open water.  Maybe if the upgrade buffed turret traverse with the +8% range increase, I'd bite, but not now.

 

 

So, in my eyes, of the 7 Tier X Cruiser Upgrades, 1 look great to me, 2 are questionable, and the other 4 are garbage.  So what about Battleship Upgrades?

 

Spoiler

 

Republique's is good to go.  The nerf reduces gun range to about 19.8km but your guns pump faster.  Turret traverse should still be doable.

GK's upgrade lessens her max range to just shy of 19km, so it's not too big a hit.  It still buffs both Main & Secondary Reloads, so this looks good.  Her stock gun range wasn't that great to begin with at 20.61km anyways, so the hit isn't much.  More importantly to me, this is a Slot 6 item so CSM1 isn't touched at all.

Yamatoooo?  The upgrade is okay, mostly because you can buff her accuracy with both ASM1 and Legendary, and still buff reload, but not to the same extent as MBM3.  The red flag is the even worse turrret traverse.  Still, this has good merit.

Montana's upgrade is straight up garbage.  Concealment is a key part of Monty's game and the upgrade sh*ts on that.  The comedic part is the "Survival" bonus of the upgrade is worse than CRUISER Hindenburg's.  This is one of the most laughable Legendary Upgrades possible.

One of the key things that make Conqueror what she is, is her amazing concealment.  Her Legendary would sh*t on that for benefits of meaningless use.  Conq's Full Stealth Build has bailed me out of so much trouble, especially when her Repair Party is on that abnormally long cooldown.  Her stealth is vital, and this upgrade does nothing useful while giving that up.

 

The BB upgrades overall are decent and worthwhile.  There are 5 Tier X BB Legendary Upgrades, and of those 5, 3 of them are good to go.  1 is bad, 1 is an insult.

 

Of 7 Cruiser Legendaries, 1 looks great.

Of the 5 BB Legendaries, 3 look great.

 

I don't know about you guys, but the BB Legendaries look better in general.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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1 hour ago, Ares1967 said:

I know that Yamato module is gonna suck. The problem is its gonna suck for everyone being shot at by the Yammy. Because, you know, the most accurate BB in the game, with the biggest guns, absolutely needed its accuracy buffed.

ASM1 + Legendary Yamato Dispersion Buff Stacking.  The turret traverse will really suck if you get out-positioned by someone, but yes, whoever is on the receiving end of those mighty 460s, are not going to like it.  This will be a major advantage Yamato will have over IX Musashi.  If you were one of those players that said, "Why would I get Musashi when I can have Yamato which does everything better?"  Well, you all got more ammunition to use for sticking to that decision.  There are zero possible builds that Musashi can do to come anywhere close to replicate sister Yamato's accuracy now.  With ASM1, Yamato was still a bit more accurate than Musashi, but Musashi was no slouch.  Combine this with the Legendary...

sweet_jesus.gif

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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14 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

ASM1 + Legendary Yamato Dispersion Buff Stacking.  The turret traverse will really suck if you get out-positioned by someone, but yes, whoever is on the receiving end of those mighty 460s, are not going to like it.  This will be a major advantage Yamato will have over IX Musashi.  If you were one of those players that said, "Why would I get Musashi when I can have Yamato which does everything better?"  Well, you all got more ammunition to use for sticking to that decision.  There are zero possible builds that Musashi can do to come anywhere close to replicate sister Yamato's accuracy now.  With ASM1, Yamato was still a bit more accurate than Musashi, but Musashi was no slouch.  Combine this with the Legendary...

sweet_jesus.gif

I'd wish the legendary mod help bring back some of the legendary healing magic back.  The current mod will only make the Yamato a better back line sniper, but that doesn't win battles, especially in ones where the team can't even get a single cap.  She'd just become an AP Conqueror.  And people are sick of that ship.

Edited by Sventex

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19 hours ago, GreyFox78659 said:

Yeah B.B. are over represented in the meta and WoWS has stated they want that changed.

They always say that. Then they nerf DDs. 

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4 hours ago, ReddNekk said:

Not necessarily. Example, Henri IV.

  • –12% to main battery loading time
  • +8% to main battery maximum firing range
  • +10% to detectability

The first 2 are fine but the +10% to detectability? Hell, Henri can already be seen from the adjoining time zone. The pros in no way compensate for the con. I'll pass.

but you said it- the Henri is already detected far away anyway. Definitely worth the trade in my opinion. Not like you're gonna be sneaking up on anybody to begin with.

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1 hour ago, Ju87s said:

but you said it- the Henri is already detected far away anyway. Definitely worth the trade in my opinion. Not like you're gonna be sneaking up on anybody to begin with.

This upgrade is just good for spam HE from border of map, Henri 4 need concealment  or agility to survive  in middle range or short range fight.

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Yamato gets an upgrade that completely eclipses the accuracy of every other T10 battleship while the Montana gets absolute garbage. Typical.

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4 hours ago, Sventex said:

I'd wish the legendary mod help bring back some of the legendary healing magic back.  The current mod will only make the Yamato a better back line sniper, but that doesn't win battles, especially in ones where the team can't even get a single cap.  She'd just become an AP Conqueror.  And people are sick of that ship.

The Mega Repair Party on old Yamato was hilarious.  Especially when you consider how bad Montana was back in those days.  I still remember when people got mad at you if you dared to bring Montana into PVP.  I have never seen that kind of derision of a ship on that same level or worse since that version of Montana was around.

 

We make fun of Emerald, Pensacola, NOLA, etc. for being super squishy, but nobody got mad at a player for bringing such ships into a PVP match.  Indianapolis is a bad Cruiser, Lexington & Ranger are bad Carriers, but nobody gets mad at the user for bringing them into a game.  But Montana?  Booooyyyyy, you were going to hear it!

"Why the f--k did you bring that POS ship into the match?"

"WTH are you thinking using that ship?"

"Thanks for bringing a Tier IX BB into a Tier X BB slot."

Etc, etc.

Those were interesting days.  And old Mega Healing Yamato was spanking that sh*t like it was cool.  As far as we were concerned, Yamato was the only true Tier X BB at the time.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Shimakaze uppgrade just sucks. It make the ship even more passive than she already is. -80% tube traverse ? Really ? This is garbage.

 

Henri module is just...bad. Sure having slightly more range and better reload is good but +10% detectability is just bad. If it was on the 6 slot, it could have been a good uppgrade since you can slot double rudder and dodge some shells but 15.x km detection with a garbage ruddershift ? No thanks. Also this upgrade turn the ship into a long range HE spam. If it had Moksva railgun it could work but the slow and lazy shell Henri has doesn't help at shooting target 19km away. 

 

 

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i like camping yamatos,easier to farm dmg with cvs.

YEAR OF CV, AND IT'S RIGHT HERE.

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