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DDs and Radar – Stats Tell The Tale

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I’m waiting for a software system to finish backing itself up, so I suspect that this will be a bit more brief than the topic actually deserves. I won't have time to proof this either, so my apologies in advance for typos and nonsense. I'll try to edit later if needed. And if the bar is open, grab a beer before going any further.

There’s been a fair amount of talk scattered around the web about the state of DD play relative to the overabundance of radar now in WOWS. I thought I’d take a look at the actual statistics, and see what information that may give. It was, I admit, quite a surprise.

A little background: I’m a DD main, and my focus is IJN. My favorite ships, and the ships I do best with, are the Kagero and Yugumo. But I own just about all of the IJN DDs, and do pretty well with all of them; to me, they're fun. But since the advent of the USN CA changes, my performance in-game has suffered a great deal. My win rate with my favorite ships is down 4 points and 3 points respectively, damage is down 9%, kill rate is down 12%, and XP per game is down 8%. My personal experience since the last update has been pretty grim, and I know others are experiencing similar results.

But what are the overall stats on these things since the update?

All of this comes from the maplesyrup.coocan.jp site. I compared May 5 stats to June 16. There were some other dates compared as well, but for this post, these are the two dates we’re concerned with. Suffice to say that these were not taken in a vacuum. All are from the NA server. Everything here is tier 6 and above.

First I looked at all DDs on these two dates. Number of players actually increased 2%, as did number of games. From what I’ve seen in-game myself, it looks like there are a lot fewer DD players since the update. But that isn’t borne out by the numbers. Also interesting is the fact that the win/loss rates are almost exactly the same between the pre-update week and the post-update week. Average XP earned and average damage were both down, but only by 1%. Average kills per game was exactly the same.

So I have to admit, I started thinking there was something wrong with the stats recorded on this site. I decided to look at the USN CA rates for the same period, with the idea of trying to validate the paragraph above.

USN CAs saw a 247% increase in players between these two different weeks, and a 249% increase in games played. The win rate of these ships was up by 11%, the draw rate was up by 33% (interesting), and the loss rate was up by 14%. Average XP earned was up 9%. The Cleveland saw the biggest jump in usage. Average overall damage was up 18%. Average kills per game was up 12%. So this confirms the increase in the number of players and games played. And it indicates that the USN CAs are winning, losing and drawing more often than before. So this piece of it confirms what I’ve seen firsthand, and more or less validates the above, I think.

Next I decided to breakout the IJN DDs and have a look at those. The number of IJN DD players was down 2%, and the number of games was down 4%. But the win/loss rates remained almost exactly the same before and after the update. Where the IJN DD players have suffered is in average XP (down 4%), average damage (down 6%), and average kills per game (down 4%). I didn’t do an in-depth look at other nations DDs for this, but I did spot check a few. The Gearing, Fletcher and Fushun are almost exactly the same statistically between the two different weeks, as was the Z-46. The Khabarovsk actually increased its statistical performance (the Khaba remains an enigma wrapped in a mystery). The Gadjah Mada suffered even more than the overall IJN ships did.

Next, just to see if I could validate some of this in another way, I decided to look at ships that rely largely on smoke as part of their fighting style. For this, I looked at the Akizuki and the entire RN CL line. The Akizuki’s stats fell in about the same way the overall IJN stats did. I initially assumed this would be worse for the Akizuki  - it’s amazing slowness and sluggishness would seem to cost it in a radar filled world, but she seems to have fared rather well given the overall fall of IJN DDs. The RN CL line was down  significantly in number of games and players (about 12% each). But the win rate for RN CLs was actually up 2.3%. Average XP earned was down, but only by 1.6%. Average damage was down by 3%. And average kills was up by 2.4%. So there are fewer players and games, and their results are down in every category except win rate and kills. Go figure.

I think what this is saying is that the average DD players are playing just as badly now as they were before the USN CA change. So the top of the bell curve really hasn’t changed a great deal. In this case, the changes in radar haven’t changed the average players’ style of play or capabilities. And all this seems to be ok with them, as it was ok before the changes. They sail into battle, largely oblivious to their surroundings, and move on to the next game when that one’s over. "When ignorance is bliss, then tis folly to be wise."

There are, however, a certain number of players that haven’t adapted, or are sailing ships that aren’t so easy to play in this phase of the meta. This is where the IJN DDs are, and guys like me in particular. I personally had a way of playing (Ninja) - prior to the changes - that is somehow incompatible with the current meta. And I play the one line of DDs that has been statistically most impacted by the changes in a negative way. IJN DDs were already the line with the highest skill floor, and that floor seems to have been raised even more.

So it seems to me that the question needs to be rephrased a bit. It’s not an issue of radar having wrecked DD play in general terms; the stats do not bear that out in any meaningful way. The question is more akin to:

Has the abundance of radar wrecked IJN DD play?

And as a corollary, has the abundance of radar wrecked a particular style of play, and if so, how do people that played that style regain their mojo?

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I'm not reading this hole statement.  Too painful to the eyes.  How ever I will agree with one statement.  Before there was radar Destroyers were much easier to play.  With the advantage of Radar being in play.  Destroyers are even more challenging to play.  I've seen more lost matches regardless of how well people play due to the un balanced teams with radar.  Either one team has more radar on one side than the other.  The team with the most radar usually wins.   A fix is definitely needed.  No I'm not against Radar in the game it just needs to be balanced.  Or the fact that it would be used less frequently by making the radar consumable reload say every 6 minutes.


Those of us who have played WITH OUT RADAR can probably agree on this.

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247% increase in US cruiser play .... that is the only stat you need to know.  Since the bulk of the re-shuffled cruiser lines have radar - you are going to be seeing a large increase in the amount of radars in game.  Radar play hasn't changed, nor the methods to avoid it, just the total amount of people playing radar ships, both on the new line and also trying to stack xp for the tier 9 in the upcoming US CL line.  The same number of US cruisers had radar before the the 7.5 update, the only ship increase is the T8 Cleveland.  Since people are attracted to the new and shiny thing, they are all playing US cruiser line, hoping to find the next OP ship.  Most of them are playing them poorly, because they play all ships poorly anyway, but that doesn't stop them from pushing the Radar button from behind an island every two to three minutes and throwing off the game balance - temporarily.

US cruiser line was always a challenge to play for the average player, and nigh impossible for bad players, the line re-shuffle does not change that fact.  Once the CL line arrives and goes through it's own "must play" phase, the game will return to normal concerning the amount of radar cruisers in a match.  Until then DD's will have to play more cautiously  and attempt to snooker cruisers into chasing them into the open and blowing their radar at near max range. 

Everything changes.

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48 minutes ago, SuperSpud1 said:

I'm not reading this hole statement.  Too painful to the eyes.  How ever I will agree with one statement.  Before there was radar Destroyers were much easier to play.  With the advantage of Radar being in play.  Destroyers are even more challenging to play.  I've seen more lost matches regardless of how well people play due to the un balanced teams with radar.  Either one team has more radar on one side than the other.  The team with the most radar usually wins.   A fix is definitely needed.  No I'm not against Radar in the game it just needs to be balanced.  Or the fact that it would be used less frequently by making the radar consumable reload say every 6 minutes.


Those of us who have played WITH OUT RADAR can probably agree on this.

This is certainly an issue. The worst I've seen personally was 6:0, with 4:2 or 4:1 being pretty common.

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Interesting, my play, wr, and damage have all gone up since the change. Perhaps that's because I'm competent, and don't have to compete with all the other DDs usually in matches. If a player has issues being one of two, or the only DD, then yes, the extra radar is going to be an issue. I don't have a problem with it, nor with radar in general. I realize there are players that do have issues, we aren't all the same, we don't play the same. This is just how it is for me.

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As a battleship player, I'm trying not to look at this from a, "Let's punish DD players!" perspective, because that doesn't help the game.  What I do see though at the higher tiers is this; because so few CVs are to be found once you hit T8+, many games lack the scouting necessary that CVs provide to kinda "mesh" the game balance together.  And for that, many high tier DDs players have been able to sail around with impunity knowing that all they have to do is keep their detection radius from touching other ships.  And I can say for certain that when players just die out of nowhere to a massive torpedo volley and are unable to fight back on a consistent basis or "respond to a threat", it's not good for game balance. 

  • At the low and mid tiers, there is either completely none or very little radar, but a lot more CV play.
  • At the high tiers, there is much more radar, but very little CV play.

In addition, because the threat from being torpedoed is so great at the higher tiers, it creates a more stagnant game. 

Now, the issue I see is this though.  If Wargaming ever fixes CVs and make them more fun to play, then high tier DDs will have considerable issues because of amount of scouting available to see them.  Without CVs at the higher tiers though, I see the addition of extra radar as a great way to help balance the battlefield a little bit.

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This is why i don't do the just use cover until the radar is gone because its too easy for them to do this, its not fun and engaging and i did this to prove a point, Because that's what i hear from the team to much at the start of the battle its ok there are rocks to hide behind.

 

20180619_203933_PJSD012-Shimakaze-1943_47_Sleeping_Giant.wowsreplay

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Good analysis OP. Personal experience was the numbers of DDs per match dropped significantly. They are rebounding slightly as I don't see as many zero or 1 DD games at higher tiers. Wondering how the stats don't bear that out. Obviously a little observer bias and small sample pool.

By the way, the Khab is not an enigma, it is a cruiser in DD clothing.

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On 2018-06-19 at 9:30 AM, Grflrgl said:

I think what this is saying is that the average DD players are playing just as badly now as they were before the USN CA change.

The problem with radar started far earlier than the USN cruiser line split... That's only a recent event mere weeks old.

The reason why the stats haven't changed much is simple. The USN line had radar before and after the split. Just because the overall pool of radar cruisers available total in the entire game, spanning all lines  has increased... The average amount of radar cruisers in a match has not. Most games have... 1 to 4 radar cruisers per team?

The nationality of the cruisers matters little. The USN split changes nothing about how MM matches games, therefore those stats are debateable.

The problem here is that giving people an "I win" button that has no counter and can see through solid rock is just a broken mechanic in premise. It defies logic and common sense. And when used with voice chat (such as clan battles) radar can be "daisy chained" between several cruisers to ensure prolonged and near  constant coverage at a capture point.

Random battles are a cake walk with radar compared to ranked or clan battles.

A DesMoine humping islands spamming radar is incredibly difficult to counter for any BB, let alone a destroyer...

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First and foremost: those of you who are still experiencing unbalanced teams in terms of radar are seeing the opposite of what I have.  As a DD main the first thing I do when the team list comes up is scan for radar on both teams (even when I'm not in a DD--old habits), and since the USCA split the teams I've seen have been remarkably well balanced.  It could be a coincidence, but I play pretty frequently (generally at least 2-3 hours per day) and that seems unlikely.  Counting only the "obvious" radar ships (Missouri, US & Soviet cruisers T8+, Atlanta, Indy & Chappy) I have not seen a single battle where either team had a radar advantage higher than one.  Of course you can throw in the odd "not so obvious" ship using radar, such as a Yueyang or Minotaur, but those builds are rare in randoms & I can only recall one instance of running into a radar Yueyang.  Before the patch which introduced the line split it was extremely common for me to see one team or the other hold a radar advantage of 2, 3, or even 4.  So I'm not sure exactly what's going on here, but my hunch is that a few people are exaggerating/misremembering (or just flat out don't know which ships have radar).

As for play style, mine hasn't really changed & my results haven't, either (my DD win rate has actually been 7% higher in 93 battles since the split).  Even before the glut of Clevelands it was rare to see a high tier battle without multiple radar ships on each side, and any competent cruiser captain will position his ship so that he has radar coverage over the areas where DDs typically like to go.  Since the split, there's more radar...but the majority of those Cleveland players are not competent cruiser captains.  They aren't accustomed to playing a radar ship & don't know how best to make use of it, they don't position their ships very well, and they definitely don't communicate with the rest of their team to ensure they aren't overlapping their radars.  When I do get lit up by one of these players, it's usually an instance where they popped the radar too soon & from too far away, so I'm only lit for a few seconds.  Even when I get caught well inside their radar range, more often than not they've "caught" me at a point where few (if any) ships on their team actually have shots on my DD.  It has still presented more of a challenge, but for incidental reasons rather than being sent to port in the first 4 minutes of the battle--torpedo salvos tend to be most effective when launched from an unexpected angle & being spotted by a random radar ruins that, for example.

The only IJN destroyer which I regularly play these days is Shimakaze (well, okay--and Fujin), and again I've found that I'm typically doing better since the split.  Part of that is obviously the buff to Shima's concealment, but I think it's also directly attributable to the increase in radar: radar cruisers tend to go for the same spots on each map and then tend to mill around there for some time, so dumping torpedoes toward those locations tends to score a fair number of hits.  It also doesn't hurt that most destroyer players are overreacting to the increase in radar, meaning that opposing DDs don't tend to screen for their teammates as well as they could.  At any rate, in 10 Shima battles over the last 3 weeks I've won 7, and both my average damage and PR have been significantly higher than my overall numbers.

Edited by Harv72b

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Just to add a bit of context, some of the stats like win rate probably wouldn't change much regardless of the impact of radar. Matchmaking try's to even out DDs per side. If you have an even number of DDs, then win rate would remain the same. 2 DDs won, 2 DDs lost, for example. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought they also tried adding ship nationality to the mix. So the issue with looking at win rate shouldn't even cross different DDs of the same tier as much. 1 Shima wins, 1 Shima loses.

So a better stat would be damage or XP earned. What also would be helpful would be a filter based on past player performance so that we could filter out where specifically any effect is taking place. Is it just DD play is on average so abysmal that it can't get much worse? Is there a skill gap that explains how seemingly some posters here (usually with significantly better than average stats) have NO complaints, where others have felt a large hit in performance? That's what I would like to know. What level of play DOES it take to not feel a difference.

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14 hours ago, Sou1forge said:

What also would be helpful would be a filter based on past player performance so that we could filter out where specifically any effect is taking place.

This. If you look at the stats class-by-class you encounter what’s called “survivorship bias” which basically means the unicum DD’s are still playing but other people switched out of DD. The result is that the stats for DD stay the same (or even go up) even though the class gets harder to play.

If you want to compare how DD’s score now vs how they scored before radar madness, you could maybe compare player-by-player over time: look at each player’s win rate ratio for BB/CA/DD then see if it changed with the intro of radar.  But then you still have to account for players quitting DD out of frustration. It’s not easy and I think WG has no clue when it comes to doing stats analysis. 

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On 6/19/2018 at 1:22 PM, Ranari said:

As a battleship player, I'm trying not to look at this from a, "Let's punish DD players!" perspective, because that doesn't help the game.  What I do see though at the higher tiers is this; because so few CVs are to be found once you hit T8+, many games lack the scouting necessary that CVs provide to kinda "mesh" the game balance together.  And for that, many high tier DDs players have been able to sail around with impunity knowing that all they have to do is keep their detection radius from touching other ships.  And I can say for certain that when players just die out of nowhere to a massive torpedo volley and are unable to fight back on a consistent basis or "respond to a threat", it's not good for game balance. 

  • At the low and mid tiers, there is either completely none or very little radar, but a lot more CV play.
  • At the high tiers, there is much more radar, but very little CV play.

In addition, because the threat from being torpedoed is so great at the higher tiers, it creates a more stagnant game. 

Now, the issue I see is this though.  If Wargaming ever fixes CVs and make them more fun to play, then high tier DDs will have considerable issues because of amount of scouting available to see them.  Without CVs at the higher tiers though, I see the addition of extra radar as a great way to help balance the battlefield a little bit.

This is pretty much true. Today however, there seemed to be a massive influx of CV play with the mission to shoot down 30 planes.  I was playing games with 5 radar CA and 2 CV per team. I was perma spoted by everything. Not only am I constantly exposed to over half the red team to shoot at but both sides will almost exclusively try for the other team's DD(s) once its revealed and fighters normally prefer to guard larger ships so I don't even have any support. Only option is to run out of radar range, but wait, they have planes. Those hover over me so I can't flee (or even shoot down enough) planes and I can't smoke radar and the radar sees my torps so in the end I get focus fired and die while dealing no damage. Please WG, I'm not asking for you to get rid of planes or radar, just give me a counter for this (like no radar through Islands or the option to equip both engine boost to out run radar and defensive AA fire at the same time) and  or make it so maybe only half the enemy team can reveal my location at will. As a DD I shouldn't have to shoot down 20+ planes while avoiding being anywhere inside of 11km of the enemy otherwise known as my effective gun and torp range. At least give me some credit or an award for dodging enough fire  to sink a BB while only having a fraction of their HP. 

 

Edited by Florendo19

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OP, I think that your analysis boils down to the fact that the IJN line relies on their Torpedo's more than the other lines. Most Z-23-46-52 players relied on fast torp reload with decent range. But with all the Radar we just switch a module respec a skill or 2 and bam we're Gunboats. IJN can't do that. Even with modules and skills the IJN line is not a gunboat line. The fact that the Shimi is the only one of the line that can torp outside the Radar has a lot to do with it. I believe the the additional radar ships have caused DD's to be more cautious but IJN DD's usually have to close within radar range to do anything. Where the other DD lines do not have that limitation.

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1 hour ago, BarronRichthofen said:

OP, I think that your analysis boils down to the fact that the IJN line relies on their Torpedo's more than the other lines. Most Z-23-46-52 players relied on fast torp reload with decent range. But with all the Radar we just switch a module respec a skill or 2 and bam we're Gunboats. IJN can't do that. Even with modules and skills the IJN line is not a gunboat line. The fact that the Shimi is the only one of the line that can torp outside the Radar has a lot to do with it. I believe the the additional radar ships have caused DD's to be more cautious but IJN DD's usually have to close within radar range to do anything. Where the other DD lines do not have that limitation.

This is a sound analysis.  The goal of WOW is to keep BBs happy.  They are the WOW Golden Goose.  Thus, radar has most significantly impacted the class of DD that was the greatest threat to BBs: IJN.  Every nerf to DDs is calculated to benefit BBs so they stay happy, keep playing and spend money in the game.

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I thoroughly enjoyed your narrative, although I would also add that the baseline is a little muddy, all the same, good reading.

My own experience with roles, specifically Destroyers and Cruisers, repetition makes perfect - does not correlate to statistics.  One can argue from World of Tanks that early stats measure noob status, and at some point, finger-memory creates greater success at the helm.  

Spoiler

Honestly, I read the entire piece.  However, some folks here are TL-DR minded.  It would be nice to have a summary of your pieces in the future, so those easily-distracted viewers can decide whether to read the whole thing, instead of click-away to the next topic.  Just a suggestion.

 

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The thing about radar is that both teams get it, so I would not expect win rate to change. DDs on both teams are gonna get blapped. Subjectively, I have not noticed a drop in DD play. I've had several 5DD per side matches recently, which surprised me. As far as countering the radar, I've started playing all dd's like my khab--staying back from caps until later in the game, then grabbing them when its safe. Given, my only sneaky "true" dd is Grozzo, so I'm not a good test subject, because I can still be effective outside of radar range with my guns, but for me, the tactic has been yielding wins.  Interestingly, there is less complaining about DDs who dont rush into caps. I think everyone is adapting to the new idea that CAs and not DDs are the new cap controllers. 

Personally, I don't mind the US cruiser invasion. US CAs can't hit anything past 10km unless your are a fantastic shot, so I'll just keep spamming them with HE from 12km and laugh as the world burns.

 

edit to add: 

I do see how the radar saturation is very frustrating to DDs whose whole playstyle is centered around cap control and close-in fighting. I have a lot of respect for players that can still make that work.

Edited by mrieder79
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Let me preface my remarks by saying that I think the current increase in radar is temporary as people try out the new ships, and after everyone has ground through the new lines in a few months, we will return to stability where people return to playing whatever style they like best.

I run primarily IJN, usually Tiers 8-10.  What I've found over the past 3 weeks is that my Akizuki has suffered the most from the increase in radar and decrease in DD population.  A dependable 55% WR has dropped to 45%.   The Aki's poor maneuverability means that it relies more heavily on smoke to break contact, which is defeated with radar.   While I still have a few 5v5 DD games, mostly I see 1v1 or 2v2 and my DD-hunter build is moot... before, "contesting a cap" meant entering the cap with the purpose of murdering other DDs... can't do that against CA/CL.   The other playstyle for the Akizuki of shooting from smoke is also broken, since its best to start smoke-firing from ~8-10 km away (before the target escapes gun range).  The Harugumo will somewhat fix the latter, with its longer gun range.  

On the other hand, my WR in Yugumo and Shima are now >60%.  I run the Yugumo as a TRB, no smoke, and thus my primary defense is WASD, and both ships have the agility to dodge incoming fire.  Games with 1M potential damage are common.  I run 12km torps on both so I can torp from outside radar range, although this isn't my playstyle -- rather, my playstyle is generally to charge the cap, torp where the reds typically camp, then enter when safe.  I always challenge a cap when I have support, carefully leveraging the superior spotting range of the IJN line and calling out focus fire.  Very effective and very deadly, at least until the RN DDs arrive.

Aside: I used to prefer Yugumo over Shima, but after ranking out in nothing-but-Shima, I've really come to enjoy playing it.  I like the speed and third launcher.  I've had a lot of CV games recently, and the smoke is useful for hiding from the planes.  

YMMV, just giving my experience.

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3 hours ago, robotdaddy said:

Let me preface my remarks by saying that I think the current increase in radar is temporary as people try out the new ships, and after everyone has ground through the new lines in a few months, we will return to stability where people return to playing whatever style they like best.

I run primarily IJN, usually Tiers 8-10.  What I've found over the past 3 weeks is that my Akizuki has suffered the most from the increase in radar and decrease in DD population.  A dependable 55% WR has dropped to 45%.   The Aki's poor maneuverability means that it relies more heavily on smoke to break contact, which is defeated with radar.   While I still have a few 5v5 DD games, mostly I see 1v1 or 2v2 and my DD-hunter build is moot... before, "contesting a cap" meant entering the cap with the purpose of murdering other DDs... can't do that against CA/CL.   The other playstyle for the Akizuki of shooting from smoke is also broken, since its best to start smoke-firing from ~8-10 km away (before the target escapes gun range).  The Harugumo will somewhat fix the latter, with its longer gun range.  

On the other hand, my WR in Yugumo and Shima are now >60%.  I run the Yugumo as a TRB, no smoke, and thus my primary defense is WASD, and both ships have the agility to dodge incoming fire.  Games with 1M potential damage are common.  I run 12km torps on both so I can torp from outside radar range, although this isn't my playstyle -- rather, my playstyle is generally to charge the cap, torp where the reds typically camp, then enter when safe.  I always challenge a cap when I have support, carefully leveraging the superior spotting range of the IJN line and calling out focus fire.  Very effective and very deadly, at least until the RN DDs arrive.

Aside: I used to prefer Yugumo over Shima, but after ranking out in nothing-but-Shima, I've really come to enjoy playing it.  I like the speed and third launcher.  I've had a lot of CV games recently, and the smoke is useful for hiding from the planes.  

YMMV, just giving my experience.

I have noticed that with all the radar the new gunboat IJN DDs in testing are not that impressive  as they are slow and big and rely on smoke.

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Short range destroyers such as Haida are virtually unplayable in this radar-heavy meta - unless they're lucky to be top tiered.

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2 hours ago, HMS_Formidable said:

Short range destroyers such as Haida are virtually unplayable in this radar-heavy meta

I STRONGLY disagree.  I'm having a blast in mine, BUT you have to have an aggressive and rather high skilled play style and accept a high risk - high reward game.  Check out Little White Mouse's analysis or Jingle's review at   

 

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On 6/19/2018 at 11:30 AM, Grflrgl said:

Has the abundance of radar wrecked IJN DD play?

No, it hasn't wrecked it, but it's changed it.  You can't play them the same way as you're used to.  I am a dd main myself, but I've been playing the USN cruisers lately to know what I'm up against.  Some of them are true dd shredders but they can be beat.  You have to combine some of your USN dd tactics in your IJN ships.  For example, IJN dds have been able to get away with slinking around without worrying too much about hard cover because of their superior detection ranges.  With the plethora of radar out there, you will get detected, but you must make sure that when you are, you have hard cover to get behind.  Also, your map awareness becomes even more important.  Get in the heads of the red captains and anticipate where they will push.  Use your torps more as area denial weapons.  No, you don't wrack up as many points, but you help your team win.  Finally, unlike the Haida above, you have to have your "spider sense" on high alert and play a bit more cautious.  Don't rush into anywhere.  The longer that you can last in the game the more dangerous you become.  My team last night was up 2 ships and we had two out of the 3 caps and we lost the game because of a very talented Shimikaze.

It hasn't wrecked IJN dd play, but it's changed it.  Personally, I find it mentally challenging now.  If I've had a tough day, I don't tend to reach for my IJN dds these days because I just want to shoot something.  The Monaghan, the Benson, or the Haida works well for that.  If I'm up for a game of chess, however, I reach for my Kagero.  I've been given the Shimikazi for Clan play and I am drooling at the chance to play her.   

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1 hour ago, AMajor said:

I STRONGLY disagree.  I'm having a blast in mine, BUT you have to have an aggressive and rather high skilled play style and accept a high risk - high reward game.  Check out Little White Mouse's analysis or Jingle's review at   

 

I disagree. 

It's more of a passive-aggressive ship.

You have to be aggressive to get points. You have to be passive to survive against radar.

Radar is everywhere. Get detected by radar, Haida's dead.

But you have to be within or at the edge of radar range to be effectively aggressive with her short range weaponry.

And her single-purpose gimmick is pretty pointless - hydro detecting incoming torps - as torps aren't really a significant threat anyway. Because that's pretty much the point of creeping smoke ... move out of the line of blind-fire torps as you prepare your escape route.

I'm no longer looking forward to the RN DD line.

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Nice analysis.

If Ca explosion/radar has affected IJN DD play, imagine the life on a Soviet DD, with worse concealment and 4km torps. Or in a Haida

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