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renegadestatuz

Dev Blog - ST Stalingrad changes

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Apologies if it’s been posted already

ST. Balance changes. Soviet cruiser Stalingrad, tier X.

Part of Stalingrad's casemate with 180 mm armor belt is recategorized as citadel, effectively making the citadel bigger. Currently the cruiser is showing higher than average effectiveness and such change should promote a more careful and diligent playstyle among Stalingrad's captains.

3BC427E1-5DB7-43DA-9CA0-0FB7C8E4B61D.jpeg

Edited by renegadestatuz

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One day they'll ban using the words 'efficiency' or 'effectiveness' from  these and have no idea how to justify balance tweaks ;)

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Just now, mofton said:

One day they'll ban using the words 'efficiency' or 'effectiveness' from  these and have no idea how to justify balance tweaks ;)

Lol

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Raising the citadel is simply going to make more Stalingrad's play even further back so they can angle against all the flanks... which will result in good survivability... and good numbers... and a ship with a massive citadel that's spotted from space... good guns won't be enough at that point to make it good enough for competitive.

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9 minutes ago, Spartias said:

Raising the citadel is simply going to make more Stalingrad's play even further back so they can angle against all the flanks... which will result in good survivability... and good numbers... and a ship with a massive citadel that's spotted from space... good guns won't be enough at that point to make it good enough for competitive.

so basically a normal tier X ship?snipe at long range?

or maybe it's a russian yamato,big citadel,that's why they "snipe"?

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13 minutes ago, Spartias said:

Raising the citadel is simply going to make more Stalingrad's play even further back so they can angle against all the flanks... which will result in good survivability... and good numbers... and a ship with a massive citadel that's spotted from space... good guns won't be enough at that point to make it good enough for competitive.

The question should be however, is Stalingrad itself meant to be used in competitive? There is a possibility that if the ship is very good in competitive, it will provide most top tier clans with an advantage over the rest that don't have access to the ship. This could be disappointing to many.

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This change might make her too squishy for her tier though.  I look forward to all the CC videos after this change.

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This is still lower than Moskva's citadel.

Somehow, so many of you consider Moskva tanky while this ship is all of a sudden too squishy? Does not make any sense to me.

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17 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

so basically a normal tier X ship?snipe at long range?

or maybe it's a russian yamato,big citadel,that's why they "snipe"?

Stalingrad players with this new change will have no strategic alternative but to play super far back. The farther back they play, the more flanks they can simultaneously angle to. By doing this, they all survive long enough to use their guns. The stats won't change much, and wargaming will think it's now balanced. Then they'll never see it in competitive because it will have two massive weaknesses that cannot be overcome. Or well... they can... it's called take any other t10 cruiser that doesn't have those weaknesses... aka... DM Zao and Hindenburg... the three cruisers that are already the mainstays.

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I'd rather see them nerf the accuracy than do this. Krons is fine, punishable and fun. But not this. No, this is going to be the old Iowa with more accurate guns and no overmatch. Turn? Dead. Push? Dead. Camp in back and plink? Alive, putting up good numbers, but not influencing the battle at all. Kinda like Moskva... It can only influence battles in certain ways and certain times because its so massive and fragile.

Good to know I've wasted a whole bunch of time in CBs the past two seasons for yet another boring sniper. 

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5 minutes ago, Exciton8964 said:

This is still lower than Moskva's citadel.

Somehow, so many of you consider Moskva tanky while this ship is all of a sudden too squishy? Does not make any sense to me.

Because Moskva is a rowboat compared to this thing. It's seriously huge. 

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4 minutes ago, Show_Me_Your_Cits said:

I'd rather see them nerf the accuracy than do this. Krons is fine, punishable and fun. But not this. No, this is going to be the old Iowa with more accurate guns and no overmatch. Turn? Dead. Push? Dead. Camp in back and plink? Alive, putting up good numbers, but not influencing the battle at all. Kinda like Moskva... It can only influence battles in certain ways and certain times because its so massive and fragile.

Good to know I've wasted a whole bunch of time in CBs the past two seasons for yet another boring sniper. 

Such a common misconception that a ship can't be effective just because he is further away.

BBs can already punish cruisers hard from 20km away. If you ever watched recent KotS, you see Hindenburgs easily focusing down a BB from 17km+ away.

This ship is no exception. She is more than capable of making huge impact from 20km away. All you need is to form a cross fire with friendly BBs.

Edited by Exciton8964

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40 minutes ago, mofton said:

One day they'll ban using the words 'efficiency' or 'effectiveness' from  these and have no idea how to justify balance tweaks ;)

I would bet this was written in Russian and translated; translations are almost always poor as few words translate literally. WoW needs to invest in some English speaking writers.

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7 minutes ago, Show_Me_Your_Cits said:

Because Moskva is a rowboat compared to this thing. It's seriously huge. 

Sure. Stalingrad is huge but Moskva is not a rowboat either.

 

7c4SGBP.png

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2 minutes ago, Exciton8964 said:

Sure. Stalingrad is huge but Moskva is not a rowboat either.

 

7c4SGBP.png

Both have more freeboard than Alaska. And both are longer. I loom forward to Alaska even more than before...

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Just now, Exciton8964 said:

Such a common misconception that a ship can't be effective just because he is further away.

BBs can already punish cruisers hard from 20km away. If you ever watched recent KotS, you see Hindenburgs easily focusing down a BB from 17km+ away.

This ship is no exception. She is more than capable of making huge impact from 20km away.

Battles often come down to having to make a push at the right time in the right place to win them. 

Hindenburgs burning BBs down from 17km away is a thing, but doesn't really do much overall for the game. You can have all your cruisers sniping and burning stuff only to have a DD sneak in, take three caps that your sniping cruisers are now too far away to take back in time, and lose the game. BBs can punish stuff from 20km away, but they're better and more deadly up close. Hindenburg is also the worst example you could've used to make your point, since with its armor scheme, armament and durability, it's one of the best cruisers in the game if it's time to switch from kite and shoot to bring me closer so I may hit them with my sword gameplay

It's not a misconception, it's a truth. Sniping ships are damage farmers. You can use them to draw an enemy away, or try to win a war of attrition. When push comes to shove, damage farming doesn't win games. Example: Moskva is a terrible ship to have to carry in. It can't take sustained fire, and it has to hard commit to doing something if it wants to do anything but park on a rock and be a radar artillery barge. If you're put in a position where you HAVE to cap, you're screwed unless the direction you're going is bow on to the enemy. Anything with even a little bit of your flank is going to punish you hard and make you almost completely ineffective. Then you lose. 

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17 minutes ago, Show_Me_Your_Cits said:

I'd rather see them nerf the accuracy than do this. Krons is fine, punishable and fun. But not this. No, this is going to be the old Iowa with more accurate guns and no overmatch. Turn? Dead. Push? Dead. Camp in back and plink? Alive, putting up good numbers, but not influencing the battle at all. Kinda like Moskva... It can only influence battles in certain ways and certain times because its so massive and fragile.

Good to know I've wasted a whole bunch of time in CBs the past two seasons for yet another boring sniper. 

See, here's an example of a player that's able to think.

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38 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

so basically a normal tier X ship?snipe at long range?

or maybe it's a russian yamato,big citadel,that's why they "snipe"?

Yamato can lolpen everyone and everything from every angle from annother map. Only thing this ship will lolpen is british cruisers and destroyers; from within firing range of contemporary BBs.

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Stalingrad V1 pre-citadel raising was perfect. Super strong and worth seeking, while also having its glaring concealment issue. It could easily farm... or be farmed...

 

That type of ship promoted intelligent choices and punished poor ones. That's balanced.

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1 minute ago, Spartias said:

Stalingrad V1 pre-citadel raising was perfect. Super strong and worth seeking, while also having its glaring concealment issue. It could easily farm... or be farmed...

 

That type of ship promoted intelligent choices and punished poor ones. That's balanced.

See, I would have preferred V2. You can tank, yet will still be punished for mistakes. You can push, but not too hard. You can switch ammo if you have to, and you're on the BB dispersion curve, so you're not just straight deleting the unfortunate DM from across the map that didn't even know you were there. That ship would have been a lot of fun. 

V1 seemed too RNG dependent to me. Dev strike or a bunch of bounces, no real inbetween.

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6 minutes ago, Show_Me_Your_Cits said:

Battles often come down to having to make a push at the right time in the right place to win them. 

Hindenburgs burning BBs down from 17km away is a thing, but doesn't really do much overall for the game. You can have all your cruisers sniping and burning stuff only to have a DD sneak in, take three caps that your sniping cruisers are now too far away to take back in time, and lose the game. BBs can punish stuff from 20km away, but they're better and more deadly up close. Hindenburg is also the worst example you could've used to make your point, since with its armor scheme, armament and durability, it's one of the best cruisers in the game if it's time to switch from kite and shoot to bring me closer so I may hit them with my sword gameplay

It's not a misconception, it's a truth. Sniping ships are damage farmers. You can use them to draw an enemy away, or try to win a war of attrition. When push comes to shove, damage farming doesn't win games. Example: Moskva is a terrible ship to have to carry in. It can't take sustained fire, and it has to hard commit to doing something if it wants to do anything but park on a rock and be a radar artillery barge. If you're put in a position where you HAVE to cap, you're screwed unless the direction you're going is bow on to the enemy. Anything with even a little bit of your flank is going to punish you hard and make you almost completely ineffective. Then you lose. 

This is exactly why we are not as good as SEA teams here on NA

I have recently just listened to SEA KotS interviews. They stated clearly their strategy revolves around taking advantage of Hindenburgs consistent firepower from even 20km. Their goal is to have Hindenburgs shooting for as long as possible from max range. 

BBs are NOT better off by being closer. They will die. If you ever watched VOR vs OPG, you will know even being within 20km of enemy ship in early game is a misplay already. Tanking is not a viable strategy for any ship, including BBs.

On NA, ppl keep emphasizing things on capture contesting, getting closer to caps etc. However, SEA teams have a completely different mindset. They focus on best HP trading, doing max damage while taking minimal damage in return. They give up caps early game, instead, they focus on getting ship and HP advantage. From results of the battles, it seems to me SEA philosophy is the better one.

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13 minutes ago, Show_Me_Your_Cits said:

See, I would have preferred V2. You can tank, yet will still be punished for mistakes. You can push, but not too hard. You can switch ammo if you have to, and you're on the BB dispersion curve, so you're not just straight deleting the unfortunate DM from across the map that didn't even know you were there. That ship would have been a lot of fun. 

V1 seemed too RNG dependent to me. Dev strike or a bunch of bounces, no real inbetween.

I can see that, and it's rational which I like.

 

But it's boring, and not worth the investment of time and effort in my opinion. Version 1 was very interesting. With the improved american autobounce angles, the AP only still sort of worked against bow in targets.

 

Version 1 guns are brutally effective. Borderline too effective. But that was gloriously well complimented with a detection greater than the GK when fully stealthed out. If your timing was good you could push at just the right time and break the red's back. If that DM didnt know you were there... they weren't paying attention... you'll be spotted. You won't have a choice.

 

But this new raised citadel removes tactical close in options. You now absolutely must remain angled. You can take no chances with rng. 

 

Sit far far back and farm damage. It'll look good on paper to scrub players, but it'll be completely worthless in consistent competitive.

 

 

Edited by Spartias

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2 minutes ago, Exciton8964 said:

This is exactly why we are not as good as SEA teams here on NA

I have recently just listened to SEA KotS interviews. They stated clearly their strategy revolves around taking advantage of Hindenburgs consistent firepower from even 20km. Their goal is to have Hindenburgs shooting for as long as possible from max range. 

BBs are NOT better off by being closer. They will die. If you ever watched VOR vs OPG, you will know even being within 20km of enemy ship in early game is a misplay already. Tanking is not a viable strategy for any ship, including BBs.

On NA, ppl keep emphasizing things on capture contesting, getting closer to caps etc. However, SEA teams have a completely different mindset. They focus on best HP trading, doing max damage while taking minimal damage in return. They give up caps early game, instead, they focus on getting ship and HP advantage. From results of the battles, it seems to me SEA philosophy is the better one.

You're comparing KotS to CB and randoms... They may as well be different games entirely. I'd agree with you... If all this ship was meant for was KotS. But it's not. I don't care about a region with a different meta doing better at a 4 or so week tournament.

I'm talking about how the ship is going to be played by 99% of the player base in 99% of the battles it sees. 

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44 minutes ago, Show_Me_Your_Cits said:

You're comparing KotS to CB and randoms... They may as well be different games entirely. I'd agree with you... If all this ship was meant for was KotS. But it's not. I don't care about a region with a different meta doing better at a 4 or so week tournament.

I'm talking about how the ship is going to be played by 99% of the player base in 99% of the battles it sees. 

I was specifically talking about competitive since that was what your original post commented on.

As for random, she would be even more effective. It is much much easier to find broadside w/o a lot of effort, especially considering you have good accuracy to land shells from long distance.

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2 hours ago, Crokodone said:

Both have more freeboard than Alaska. And both are longer. I loom forward to Alaska even more than before...

 

Comrade, Comrade... Alaska will not be Balans.  It is real ship so must be weak.

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