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Destroyer_KuroshioKai

How to Grozovoy

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In this thread I will be showing some of the different ways to play the boat.  She is very under appreciated and very versatile in my opinion.  I have 3-4 different viable builds for her making her one of the most flexible DDs in T10 even giving Gearing a run for the money.  Most have around 2 different viable builds.  This thread will go a while as I try different builds.  I just speced out of my KOTS build and into a general gun build.  Play style wise I often play her as a destroyer escort, providing fire power and AA to allied DDs.  Here's an example:

This ship is going to be strong with a heal.  As it is most DDs do not want to pick a fight with her.

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Is the Heal going to get its own consumable slot?

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10 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Is the Heal going to get its own consumable slot?

I think it's likely. Radar was going to be in a new slot, and when the change from radar to heal was posted on the devblog, there was no indication that heal would occupy one of the existing slots. It read more like heal was going in the same slot radar was initially planned to be in.

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It's a good boat as is  But once it gets its heal it'll be a go to ships at tier 10 for me, looking forward to  it

 

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7 minutes ago, GhostSwordsman said:

I think it's likely. Radar was going to be in a new slot, and when the change from radar to heal was posted on the devblog, there was no indication that heal would occupy one of the existing slots. It read more like heal was going in the same slot radar was initially planned to be in.

Hope so.

I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that Speed Boost often really isn't all that necessary when your DD is already fairly fast, when compared to the other consumable choice in that same slot (for many DDs that have an option in that slot).  

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

Hope so.

I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that Speed Boost often really isn't all that necessary when your DD is already fairly fast, when compared to the other consumable choice in that same slot (for many DDs that have an option in that slot).  

It is my understanding its getting its own slot. 

The large advantage of speed boost isnt the top speed in most cases, but the faster changes in speed.  It is very nice to have to deal with incoming fire, but admittedly is not critical as smoke/radar/TRB.

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Speed boost is good for throwing off the aim of ships who have gotten a bead on you, as well. Once the shells start hitting, pop the speed boost and they have to adjust again. 

 

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Looking at the current list of changes I like it.  It loses a smoke, speed boost, and the heal is set a 1.  With premium consumables she tops out at 2 a piece, so SI is going to be very important.  DF fire is not included in this so that number does not change.  The max gun range gets buffed to 12.3km.

All in all a pretty reasonable re-balance.  This should be strong, but not completely eclipse other DDs completely.

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2 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

Looking at the current list of changes I like it.  It loses a smoke, speed boost, and the heal is set a 1.  With premium consumables she tops out at 2 a piece, so SI is going to be very important.  DF fire is not included in this so that number does not change.  The max gun range gets buffed to 12.3km.

All in all a pretty reasonable re-balance.  This should be strong, but not completely eclipse other DDs completely.

One Heal, 2 with the premium version (3 with super).  Seems a bit weak.  I kind of wish that the heal (and the one on the Khab) were a little stronger (i.e. healed more HP per heal charge).

Buffing the max gun range would be nice.  When playing a Russian gunboat, gun range is life.  The greater the range, the better your chances of avoiding incoming shells.  I haven't seen the Groz as a gunboat on the same level as the Khab, in large part because it's larger and easier to hit.  The Groz is more of a hybrid than a hardcore gunboat, IMO.  Hey, when you have a concealment of 6 km and a torp range of 10 km, as well as good guns, you're a hybrid!  Also, because it's easier to hit, the Groz seems like it's well suited to playing the role of the smoke shooter, more than the Khab, which seems better suited to a run and gun style.

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Gonna have to really check it out before I sink money on the permacamo, though. I don't like the idea of having 1 smoke base. 

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2 hours ago, Crucis said:

One Heal, 2 with the premium version (3 with super).  Seems a bit weak.  I kind of wish that the heal (and the one on the Khab) were a little stronger (i.e. healed more HP per heal charge).

Buffing the max gun range would be nice.  When playing a Russian gunboat, gun range is life.  The greater the range, the better your chances of avoiding incoming shells.  I haven't seen the Groz as a gunboat on the same level as the Khab, in large part because it's larger and easier to hit.  The Groz is more of a hybrid than a hardcore gunboat, IMO.  Hey, when you have a concealment of 6 km and a torp range of 10 km, as well as good guns, you're a hybrid!  Also, because it's easier to hit, the Groz seems like it's well suited to playing the role of the smoke shooter, more than the Khab, which seems better suited to a run and gun style.

I personally thought buff the gun range and you'd be good.  I think she didnt get much attention because her bread and butter at her release was her AA.  With no serious CV threat she really wasnt needed.  People looking for a more gun focused DD just played Khaba.  People just looked at the time and expense of the grind and said why?

I dont think shes going to be over powered.  I think the loss of a smoke will hurt her over all damage farming and survival potential.  Other than the gun range buff its just window dressing.

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13 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

I personally thought buff the gun range and you'd be good.  I think she didnt get much attention because her bread and butter at her release was her AA.  With no serious CV threat she really wasnt needed.  People looking for a more gun focused DD just played Khaba.  People just looked at the time and expense of the grind and said why?

I dont think shes going to be over powered.  I think the loss of a smoke will hurt her over all damage farming and survival potential.  Other than the gun range buff its just window dressing.

From what has been announced, the Grozovoi isn't losing smoke. So far it seems heal and smoke will have their own slots, unlike the Khabarovsk.

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14 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

I personally thought buff the gun range and you'd be good.  I think she didnt get much attention because her bread and butter at her release was her AA.  With no serious CV threat she really wasnt needed.  People looking for a more gun focused DD just played Khaba.  People just looked at the time and expense of the grind and said why?

I dont think shes going to be over powered.  I think the loss of a smoke will hurt her over all damage farming and survival potential.  Other than the gun range buff its just window dressing.

I think that AA as a selling point on any ship is very weak, because no matter how good that AA is, the CV player decides whether or not he will come into range of your AA.  And if he won't do so, then the value of that great AA is far less.  Is it nice to play a ship whose AA is so feared that you rarely have to worry about CV planes coming near you?  To a degree yes.  OTOH, it kinda stinks to have to give up a lot of potential in other areas just to gain this "fear bubble".  You can have a Des Moines and not invest a bloody thing into your AA and still be feared on reputation alone.   Of course, it you're in a Grozovoi, you can build your ship without any serious AA intent and yet get the benefits anyways.  What I mean by that is that AFT is a good choice for the Groz since she had good guns for extended range fire.  And at the same time, you gain an AA benefit as a little side bonus.

Anyways,

I wouldn't call Heals "just window dressing", at least depending on how many and how potent they are.  Heals on a DD can extend its effectivity in battle, particularly for gunboats that are going to be having to expose themselves to return fire every time they use their guns.

 

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3 hours ago, Crucis said:

I think that AA as a selling point on any ship is very weak, because no matter how good that AA is, the CV player decides whether or not he will come into range of your AA.  And if he won't do so, then the value of that great AA is far less.  Is it nice to play a ship whose AA is so feared that you rarely have to worry about CV planes coming near you?  To a degree yes.  OTOH, it kinda stinks to have to give up a lot of potential in other areas just to gain this "fear bubble".  You can have a Des Moines and not invest a bloody thing into your AA and still be feared on reputation alone.   Of course, it you're in a Grozovoi, you can build your ship without any serious AA intent and yet get the benefits anyways.  What I mean by that is that AFT is a good choice for the Groz since she had good guns for extended range fire.  And at the same time, you gain an AA benefit as a little side bonus.

Anyways,

I wouldn't call Heals "just window dressing", at least depending on how many and how potent they are.  Heals on a DD can extend its effectivity in battle, particularly for gunboats that are going to be having to expose themselves to return fire every time they use their guns.

 

AA builds win games only where CVs are a thing.  I have tons of games where my SL, KOTS spec ships (pretty much max AA) won the game by significantly reducing the working area the enemy CV has.  The nasty thing with AA heavy DDs is you just "pop up" and they have lost whatever inside your range.  I might have brought my Grozovoy out in Ranked this season when I saw CVs in queue.  At the time I was running AAG3/AFT/MAA/SE/BFT-- giving up concealment for the better long range AA aura.

The game plan was team goes one way, I go the other.  The CV always tried to focus me, and I dont even need DF with that build to be strike proof, I just need to kite them.  I just kept DFing fighters to help my CV.  It took a health CA or BB to stop me, DDs just melted.

It is sort of window dressing currently.  Groz eats a ton of burst damage, either from its large size and clumsy handling, or BB AP.  A single heal basically offsets that to damage levels a normal DD would take, and the loss of a smoke means you are more prone to getting hit.  In a DD v DD fight I agree its a major buff, but that doesnt happen often, or shouldnt happen often.  DD fights should be like a gangbang, you bring all your friends.

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5 hours ago, Lightninger said:

From what has been announced, the Grozovoi isn't losing smoke. So far it seems heal and smoke will have their own slots, unlike the Khabarovsk.

Last dev update I read says she will lose -1 of all consumables other than DCP, and DF.  Everything else is maxed with premium consumables and SI at 3 total.  That's what I meant by the loss of a smoke.

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Thing is I'm not so worried about the loss of consumables. The gun range is changing quite a bit, likely making AFT much less necessary than it is now. Which means spending those points on Superintendent since it's getting a heal. And with Superintendent, it means these consumables have three charges, the same as the non-SI optimum build previously.

I'm curious to see these changes go live. I got Groz maybe a couple of weeks ago shortly before the buff announcement and I've only played a couple of games in her so far, but those guns are already very impressive.

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A throw away team in this video, but I wanted to illustrate some advantages Grozovoy and other Russian DDs are going to have over the new US CLs being released.  The magic occurs around 10km, at that range most US CL players are unable to hit you consistently.  Those ranges are still very easy for a Grozovoy to land hits.  Add in a heal and I think you are going to be able to make some crazy trades against these US CLs while kiting them.  The additional range is going to make it even safer for you too.

I thought Grozovoy was in a good place already, but I'm looking forward to these buffs.  I suspect you are going to be able to troll CAs with slow shell travel times pretty well.

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Post buff Grozovoy is strong, honestly I think a little too strong.  Did this game being down 33% of my gun DPM most of the game, and she still felt strong. 

 

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Having just read this, and being one of the dd players for clan battles (in a rental dd), I really like the groz. What DD Kuro said about kiting USN CL / CA at ~10km is on point.  Last night in a clan battle loss, my flank was wiped and I was left alone vs. a worchester so I decided to do some open water gun boating.  I pretty much took him from 100-0 at around 8km by kiting, wiggling, slowing and speeding up.  The fact that he was bow on chasing me made it even easier to dodge since he couldnt only shoot 2 guns at a time.

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Does BFT makes sense for a Groz or is that better spent on other 3pt skills; thinking something like BFT & SI for 3 pt skills.

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I run:

PT

LS,AR

SE,SI

CE,AFT

 

This makes for a pretty versatile ship. You can do long range sniping, still have gunpower for knife fighting, and have lots of charges of your many consumables. I've found this pretty successful.

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Thanks - I can see that.

The guns already have plenty fast RoF and with that many shells DE is not needed for the long haul.

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On 8/24/2018 at 4:31 PM, mrieder79 said:

I run:

PT

LS,AR

SE,SI

CE,AFT

 

This makes for a pretty versatile ship. You can do long range sniping, still have gunpower for knife fighting, and have lots of charges of your many consumables. I've found this pretty successful.

I’m trying to decide if I want aft or are the 12km range good enough and add bft and de with only LS at skill level two?

 

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