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TL_Warlord_Roff

So why not make active sensors stuff work in both directions?

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We seem to be stuck with Radar and Sonar that work through islands.  If this is to difficult to fix, then how about this for a cure?

 if your ship uses RADAR or HYDRO your visible for the duration of it... to everyone.

Real World.. I can make a radar detector that can be set up with the proper kind of antenna to work as a direction finder.  And reasonably educated radio electronic technician can build one from spare parts.. or even fabricate the parts needed out right.  Doesn't have to be tidy, just has to work.  Its basic radio and electronics.  

if the radar or hydro ship has hard cover twixt you and it you can't get a shot on it, oh well.   Someone else however might have a shot from a range that normally would keep the ship unspotted. 

I never understood the radar and hydro working through islands because obviously Line Of Sight visual is affected by the presence of islands.  Just use the same rules.   I refuse to believe it's technically difficult.   .

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Radar and Hydro work through islands because it's a simple, streamlined piece of coding that goes "If Radar.active=1 then proxy spot range = radar max range". This keeps it fast to calculate and doesn't give the server additional overhead during use.

I'm not trying to defend the fact that radar sees through islands, just explaining how they coded it, and why.

As for your real life argument, this isn't a sim. Real ships didn't have hit points, magic 'make the flooding and fires stop now' buttons, omnidirectional AA bubbles, etc etc. Yet those breaks from reality are fine?

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24 minutes ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

 if your ship uses RADAR or HYDRO your visible for the duration of it... to everyone.

That's fine. And, to be fair, if you fire your guns inside a smoke screen you are also visible.

 

24 minutes ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

Real World.. I can make a radar detector that can be set up with the proper kind of antenna to work as a direction finder.  And reasonably educated radio electronic technician can build one from spare parts.. or even fabricate the parts needed out right.  Doesn't have to be tidy, just has to work.  Its basic radio and electronics.  

Right. And if you fire artillery out of a smoke screen (that you seem to be able to see through), the concussion of the blast and gunfire bloom makes you visible as well. 

I vote for both of these.

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Thanks to Flambass and his stupid anti radar garbage the Radar babies are just coming out of the woodwork like rats. Pathetic.

Edited by k9kid12
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I think this is a good idea quite honestly.  The current RADAR mechanic in game is fine but having a risk element to using the module could add some depth and tactics to an otherwise "press to win" button.  This would play into what seems to be WarGaming's game design around offensive tools, in that there is usually a risk or penalty to using such tool.  For example, firing guns incur a detection penalty and torps are usually closer range and have a long cool down and as such both require strategy to use effectively.  In that aspect, using a RADAR system causes you to be spotted or in other words applies a detection penalty for use.  This would require more thought to how and when you use it much like firing guns.

In addition to being in line with WG's design philosophy, it makes sense that blasting the EM spectrum with radio waves would make you easily detected such as in real life systems.  Seems like quite a good fit really.  We are not changing the power or how the mechanics works, just a gameplay element in doing so.

As for hydro, it depends on if you classify it as a defensive tool or an offensive tool.  Personally I would lean more to the former and leave it as is but an argument could be made for the latter as well.

In my opinion at least, lets not jump down the OP's throat about this suggestion as it has merit.  Not because of the current complaints of DD players but because it makes sense.

 

Edited by Snarky_Wombat

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This would make ships like Z-52 completely worthless. 

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4 hours ago, Lert said:

Radar and Hydro work through islands because it's a simple, streamlined piece of coding that goes "If Radar.active=1 then proxy spot range = radar max range". This keeps it fast to calculate and doesn't give the server additional overhead during use.

I'm not trying to defend the fact that radar sees through islands, just explaining how they coded it, and why.

As for your real life argument, this isn't a sim. Real ships didn't have hit points, magic 'make the flooding and fires stop now' buttons, omnidirectional AA bubbles, etc etc. Yet those breaks from reality are fine?

QFT, a more realistic radar/hydro would complicate the code and there would be a high probability that server lag would increase. This is not where more realistic game functions would really benefit the game.

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HydroACOUSTIC search is a passive sensor, not an active one. They only include the 'pings' associated with active sonar as an audio cue to indicate to the user that the consumable is active.

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21 minutes ago, Haifischkoeder said:

HydroACOUSTIC search is a passive sensor, not an active one. They only include the 'pings' associated with active sonar as an audio cue to indicate to the user that the consumable is active.

Hydro is very much an active sensor, it lights up any enemy ship in its range. Radio Position Finder (RPF) is passive and only gives a general direction of the closest enemy ship.

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5 hours ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

We seem to be stuck with Radar and Sonar that work through islands.  If this is to difficult to fix, then how about this for a cure?

 if your ship uses RADAR or HYDRO your visible for the duration of it... to everyone.

Real World.. I can make a radar detector that can be set up with the proper kind of antenna to work as a direction finder.  And reasonably educated radio electronic technician can build one from spare parts.. or even fabricate the parts needed out right.  Doesn't have to be tidy, just has to work.  Its basic radio and electronics.  

if the radar or hydro ship has hard cover twixt you and it you can't get a shot on it, oh well.   Someone else however might have a shot from a range that normally would keep the ship unspotted. 

I never understood the radar and hydro working through islands because obviously Line Of Sight visual is affected by the presence of islands.  Just use the same rules.   I refuse to believe it's technically difficult.   .

I like the idea .. make Radar only line of sight and make the ship using it visable for duration ...  that ell fix da buggers

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No.

Radar ships aside from Moskva are not well-armored to withstand repeated BB barrages. It is the job of your team to find a way in and overwhelm the enemy radar CRs.

Besides, a sudden nerf to concealment build defeats the point of running it on radar CRs. When the DDs have more impunity to operate, how will you fare if depending on  hydro and a torp screen to spot their stealth torps?

This is not a radar issue, merely player adaptability issue.

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Here is what I do not understand about all the Destroyer babies crying about radar. This is supposed to be a rock paper scissors game mechanic. Battleships counter cruisers, cruisers counter destroyers, destroyers counter battleships. Having players of equal skill the player in the destroyer in beat the Battleship player 99% of the time. The destroyers battleship counter mechanic works as intended. Before RADAR cruisers had no real way to counter destroyers. Destroyers are faster, have better concealment, there was no way for a cruiser to counter a Destroyer. Radar gives them short windows in which they can effectively counter a destroyer and doing the job that they were supposed to do in game. I feel like that Destroyer mains will always cry unless they can sail around the maps torpedoing ship with impunity because playing well requires hard work to develop the skills to be effective in games with a lot of radar and most people don't want to have to work, they just want everything handed to them.

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7 minutes ago, Reymu said:

No.

Radar ships aside from Moskva are not well-armored to withstand repeated BB barrages. It is the job of your team to find a way in and overwhelm the enemy radar CRs.

Besides, a sudden nerf to concealment build defeats the point of running it on radar CRs. When the DDs have more impunity to operate, how will you fare if depending on  hydro and a torp screen to spot their stealth torps?

This is not a radar issue, merely player adaptability issue.

The effect Radar has had on this game is dramatic rather than fix some game dynamics like they have done in the past, they have gone down the Radar road and now with more and more ships with Radar that see further it doesn’t take much with Divisions to do a play we’re your Radar ship can hide behind an Island fully protected while your all talking to each other on discord and have a big influence.. to much influence on the game 

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11 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

Here is what I do not understand about all the Destroyer babies crying about radar. This is supposed to be a rock paper scissors game mechanic. Battleships counter cruisers, cruisers counter destroyers, destroyers counter battleships. Having players of equal skill the player in the destroyer in beat the Battleship player 99% of the time. The destroyers battleship counter mechanic works as intended. Before RADAR cruisers had no real way to counter destroyers. Destroyers are faster, have better concealment, there was no way for a cruiser to counter a Destroyer. Radar gives them short windows in which they can effectively counter a destroyer and doing the job that they were supposed to do in game. I feel like that Destroyer mains will always cry unless they can sail around the maps torpedoing ship with impunity because playing well requires hard work to develop the skills to be effective in games with a lot of radar and most people don't want to have to work, they just want everything handed to them.

That would be because what DD players really want is to be both permanently invisible and functionally invincible. They demand to be the rock, paper, and scissors, and they have entire youtube channels devoted to playing their "arguments" up as if they actually had any validity.

Edited by Highlord
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5 minutes ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

The effect Radar has had on this game is dramatic rather than fix some game dynamics like they have done in the past, they have gone down the Radar road and now with more and more ships with Radar that see further it doesn’t take much with Divisions to do a play we’re your Radar ship can hide behind an Island fully protected while your all talking to each other on discord and have a big influence.. to much influence on the game 

And using all available assets to influence the game as you see fit is a problem? It's just a strategy game, after all, and a matter of who outsmarts the other first.

Some of my weekend matches, the radar CRs are already went from 4-6 per team to as few as 2. The DD population seems not to have recovered (or returned), as some matches we still get 5 per team and others just 2.

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7 minutes ago, Reymu said:

And using all available assets to influence the game as you see fit is a problem? It's just a strategy game, after all, and a matter of who outsmarts the other first.

Some of my weekend matches, the radar CRs are already went from 4-6 per team to as few as 2. The DD population seems not to have recovered (or returned), as some matches we still get 5 per team and others just 2.

Radar has limited the options, simplified game play, I believe it was Wows way of addressing some game issues... a cheap fix

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31 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

Here is what I do not understand about all the Destroyer babies crying about radar. This is supposed to be a rock paper scissors game mechanic. Battleships counter cruisers, cruisers counter destroyers, destroyers counter battleships. Having players of equal skill the player in the destroyer in beat the Battleship player 99% of the time. The destroyers battleship counter mechanic works as intended. Before RADAR cruisers had no real way to counter destroyers. Destroyers are faster, have better concealment, there was no way for a cruiser to counter a Destroyer. Radar gives them short windows in which they can effectively counter a destroyer and doing the job that they were supposed to do in game. I feel like that Destroyer mains will always cry unless they can sail around the maps torpedoing ship with impunity because playing well requires hard work to develop the skills to be effective in games with a lot of radar and most people don't want to have to work, they just want everything handed to them.

There is a reason why you are out of STW

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42 minutes ago, Reymu said:

No.

Radar ships aside from Moskva are not well-armored to withstand repeated BB barrages. It is the job of your team to find a way in and overwhelm the enemy radar CRs.

Besides, a sudden nerf to concealment build defeats the point of running it on radar CRs. When the DDs have more impunity to operate, how will you fare if depending on  hydro and a torp screen to spot their stealth torps?

This is not a radar issue, merely player adaptability issue.

How about ehhh DEAL WITH IT?

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Just now, HMCS_Devilfish said:

Radar has limited the options, simplified game play, I believe it was Wows way of addressing some game issues... a cheap fix

I have been playing with some high-level Destroyer players and Radar does not stop them from dominating a game and having a huge impact on how the game is played. All radar had done is increase the skill ceiling, good destroyers players are still going to be good. Average to poor Destroyer players are going to.....well......make posts on the forums on Nerfing RADAR.

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5 hours ago, k9kid12 said:

Thanks to Flambass and his stupid anti radar garbage the Radar babies are just coming out of the woodwork like rats. Pathetic.

It's been active all along. Radar is the problem, kid

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Just now, Belthorian said:

I have been playing with some high-level Destroyer players and Radar does not stop them from dominating a game and having a huge impact on how the game is played. All radar had done is increase the skill ceiling, good destroyers players are still going to be good. Average to poor Destroyer players are going to.....well......make posts on the forums on Nerfing RADAR.

@Kombat_W0MBAT is average

@Flambass is average

image.png.6b90e3ea870462445e3eafa510788cd9.pngThis is average

That's why we make posts on forums on nerfing RADAR.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious

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2 minutes ago, l1nv5 said:

@Kombat_W0MBAT is average

@Flambass is average

image.png.6b90e3ea870462445e3eafa510788cd9.pngThis is average

That's why we make posts on forums on nerfing RADAR.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious

I am looking at your destroyer stats and at high tier, they are pretty darn good. You don't seem to have an issue playing a high tier Destroyer effectively. 

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Just now, Belthorian said:

I am looking at your destroyer stats and at high tier, they are pretty darn good. You don't seem to have an issue playing a high tier Destroyer effectively. 

Yet, RADAR is a problem. Don't you see? Your argument is a typical "No true Scotsman"

If I am noob, you will say my argument is invalid, learn to play the game more

If I am good, you will say I don't have a problem with Radar, why complain?

I am good and have problem with Radar, can't it be true? I myself know as hell yes.

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1 minute ago, l1nv5 said:

Yet, RADAR is a problem. Don't you see? Your argument is a typical "No true Scotsman"

If I am noob, you will say my argument is invalid, learn to play the game more

If I am good, you will say I don't have a problem with Radar, why complain?

I am good and have problem with Radar, can't it be true? I myself know as hell yes.

If there was no radar in the game, you would be like Godzilla terrorizing the villagers EVERY game. There would be no way to stop you until you had destroyed more than half the city. Even with RADAR, the team with the better destroyer players are going to win the game 90% of the time. It is true they are the most difficult class to play and have a high skill set requirement, they can also totally dominate a game almost as much as a high-level CV player.

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