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Defiant_Act

Letter to Wargaming. The Problem with BB's

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Dear Wargaming,

Do you even play your own game? HE for battleships is better then AP. 32 hits with AP on broadsided ships...literally the worst team I have ever played and this happens? My buddy fires one salvo of AP for 20k (got a citadel), however, the other 80k damage he did was with HE. What is the point anymore in firing AP? The screenshots here are not of some tier 5 battleship ship and it is not like I don't know how to play the game. I am in an Iowa with a dispersion upgrade and an 11 point captain. I played with moderate aggression and pushed with my team. I played a BB like it should. I fired at broadsides, weak areas of the armor, and places I have gotten citadels before. Every single shot either missed entirely because it would straddle enemies I shot at from further away, or over pen in places where it really shouldn't. Again, I'll bring up the issue, why fire AP when I could have just fired HE the whole time and done 10x the damage I did? I don't have to worry about bouncing and over pens, the fire chance is really high, and I get rewarded for the 23 second wait between firing. Also raising the issue, what is the point in advancing...if every battleship is firing HE and doing well, why would I move up to make an easier target? This is why battleships stay in the back and don't move up. Sure there are a few that do and I applaud the ones that do, but most don't. Jingles even made a video about that or do you just not pay attention to his content since he left your community contributor program because of poor practices. Look, I love this game and I want it to do great, but stop throwing the mechanics down the crapper. This game had some kinks to work out sure, but its become a bit of a joke now. Congratulations, you're making money, but don't let this thing become like World of Tanks Console where the experienced players don't play nearly as much because all they do is re-skin things and call it new. Old map now has rain on it...calls it new map. HMH Tank has a different color then its normal tank...calls it entirely new tank. Think of the Black Edition tanks but year round...its a joke. Like I said, I love this game, just stop pissing the potential away.

Sincerely,

Defiant_Act

 

5 Questions to the community:

Do you think Battleship gameplay has gotten better, worse, or just different since launch?

Do you think that the overall gameplay has gotten better, worse, or just different since launch?

Do you agree with me in that Battleship HE has gotten out of hand? If not, why?

Do you think Battleships should even have HE? (I'm thinking for historical purposes here).

What are some good things that you like about this game? (I like being able to captain a ship I have been on)

What are some issues you have with this game and how do you think they can be fixed?

 

Thats it for my long rant. Answer the question down below if you'd like.

See you out there Captains.

 

IMG_6359.jpeg

IMG_6360.JPG

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1 minute ago, mrmariokartguy said:

This is a player skill issue, not a ship issue. 

If you're referring to the particular game I had: I will admit that I am by no means the best at this game, but I'm telling you, normally it would have been a field day. If I had replays enabled I would gladly show you lol.

If you're referring to the meta of BB sniping and HE firing: Well there is no motivation for them to get better. If they can do consistent damage without having to move up...whats the point in trying to get better? You know what I mean?

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Error 404 - Player Skill Not Found

You should know A) Where to aim and B) when to use AP vs HE

You should never only use one ammunition type.

Use the ammunition that's appropriate to the situation.

Broadside cruiser/battleship? Use AP

Heavily angled battleship showing bow?  Well, might be time to switch to HE unless you can land shells into deck/superstructure or alternatively, move to flank and get his side.

As the other player said, this is a skill issue, not a ship issue.

 

Edited by ElrabinC
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Just now, Defiant_Act said:

If you're referring to the particular game I had: I will admit that I am by no means the best at this game, but I'm telling you, normally it would have been a field day. If I had replays enabled I would gladly show you lol.

If you're referring to the meta of BB sniping and HE firing: Well there is no motivation for them to get better. If they can do consistent damage without having to move up...whats the point in trying to get better? You know what I mean?

AP does plenty of consistent damage as well. It requires a bit of positioning, aim, and target selection, but once you get that down you can consistently get boatloads of damage. 

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1 minute ago, Sandman1969 said:

You need to show how many hits were pens vs overpens.

It was about a pretty even distribution. I did fire at some cruisers and got one or two there (as expected sometimes) the bulk were over pens on middle of BB's and some bow pens from shots that went wide. The issue I have is that the immense inconsistency of AP vs the almost guaranteed damage of HE.

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1 minute ago, Defiant_Act said:

It was about a pretty even distribution. I did fire at some cruisers and got one or two there (as expected sometimes) the bulk were over pens on middle of BB's and some bow pens from shots that went wide. The issue I have is that the immense inconsistency of AP vs the almost guaranteed damage of HE.

HE is not almost guaranteed. I had the Molotov & could not for the life of me start many fires with it....

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Just now, Defiant_Act said:

If you're referring to the particular game I had: I will admit that I am by no means the best at this game, but I'm telling you, normally it would have been a field day. If I had replays enabled I would gladly show you lol.

If you're referring to the meta of BB sniping and HE firing: Well there is no motivation for them to get better. If they can do consistent damage without having to move up...whats the point in trying to get better? You know what I mean?

 

Perhaps it was just a bad RNG game.  The thing is, on average players will do much better firing primarily AP than HE.  Sometimes you won’t citadels you think you will but HE simply doesn’t do the things AP does.

Also, what were the attached pictures for?  They don’t really illustrate much given that you seemed to die really early in the first.

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Just now, mrmariokartguy said:

AP does plenty of consistent damage as well. It requires a bit of positioning, aim, and target selection, but once you get that down you can consistently get boatloads of damage. 

Thats how I got to tier 9 though. I was confident in my ability to use AP so much so to the point where I would feel comfortable aiming at Yamatos. I know I am not the best, but my stats I think can reflect that I am above average, if slightly. That being said, I will be more then happy to listen to any tips you might have.

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2 minutes ago, Kenjister said:

 

Perhaps it was just a bad RNG game.  The thing is, on average players will do much better firing primarily AP than HE.  Sometimes you won’t citadels you think you will but HE simply doesn’t do the things AP does.

Also, what were the attached pictures for?  They don’t really illustrate much given that you seemed to die really early in the first.

I lived through out the entire battle. The picture that doesn't have the alienware is my game, the other picture is the one of my friend in the division with me. He fired HE the whole game except for one salvo. I fired AP the whole game...that is how broadsided these guys were. Bad RNG, I can understand, this game was an anomaly compared to the about 10 others before it. The point I want to raise is that I encounter a lot more BB's sitting in the back firing HE then I do BB's who fire AP or switch types when situationally appropriate. 

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1 minute ago, Defiant_Act said:

Thats how I got to tier 9 though. I was confident in my ability to use AP so much so to the point where I would feel comfortable aiming at Yamatos. I know I am not the best, but my stats I think can reflect that I am above average, if slightly. That being said, I will be more then happy to listen to any tips you might have.

You are not "above average"

Your stats are very much below average with the exception of win rate.

That said, you've only got 425 battles under your belt, so you have a lot of room to grow and improve



 

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I wouldn't say AP was better "99% of the time" because you will not have broadside targets 99% of the time. AP requires several things. Luck and positioning being 2 of them. HE does damage from any angle at any range and has a stacking DOT attached to it. 

 

I'd say HE is better in the vast majority of situations, but if something is showing perfect broadside, AP is the ideal choice. Problem with a BB is it takes 30 seconds to swap ammo and by the time you swap ammo the conditions that were present 30 seconds ago probably won't exist anymore. 

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Above average with an average damage of 34k? Sorry no.

You have 425 battles & have a tier 9, slow the F down.

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56 minutes ago, Defiant_Act said:

Do you even play your own game?

Yes, some even play this more than I do.

56 minutes ago, Defiant_Act said:

HE for battleships is better then AP. 32 hits with AP on broadsided ships...literally the worst team I have ever played and this happens? My buddy fires one salvo of AP for 20k (got a citadel), however, the other 80k damage he did was with HE. What is the point anymore in firing AP?

HE is only a strong choice for certain BBs, others are better off never switching to HE. German Battleships and Japanese Battleships are better off firing AP exclusively. American Battleships fire AP most of the time, but if they have no other target but bow on Battleships they can also fling HE. UK BBs are kind of weird in that it depends which ship you want to use. French BBs I have not played yet except the Dunkerque, and she is also mostly AP.

56 minutes ago, Defiant_Act said:

Again, I'll bring up the issue, why fire AP when I could have just fired HE the whole time and done 10x the damage I did? I don't have to worry about bouncing and over pens, the fire chance is really high, and I get rewarded for the 23 second wait between firing.

The damage counter may tick, but the damage itself is near useless. The Repair party of a Battleship will heal 100% of the fire damage, while citadel damage can only get healed 10%. Not to mention, you can also fire at Cruisers and Destroyers where the damage is worth a crap load more due to the lower hitpool and they are less likely to bounce the shells.

56 minutes ago, Defiant_Act said:

Jingles even made a video about that or do you just not pay attention to his content since he left your community contributor program because of poor practices.

Jingles is giving away Codes for CC-crates, which he could only have by being a CC. He returned like two months ago.

56 minutes ago, Defiant_Act said:

5 Questions to the community:

Do you think Battleship gameplay has gotten better, worse, or just different since launch?

Do you think that the overall gameplay has gotten better, worse, or just different since launch?

Do you agree with me in that Battleship HE has gotten out of hand? If not, why?

Do you think Battleships should even have HE? (I'm thinking for historical purposes here).

What are some good things that you like about this game? (I like being able to captain a ship I have been on)

What are some issues you have with this game and how do you think they can be fixed?

1. It became passive, though for various reasons.

2. Well, I do not recall being annoyed by "weekend teams" a year ago (perhabs I was one if those weekend players myself, dun know :Smile_veryhappy:)

3. Eh no, I am playing Musashi occasionally, and BB HE is never really an issue for me, nor have I ever fired HE. AP is far more consistent, and that one Conqueror that is camping the back line thinking that he can farm me js just going to lose his Cruiser support as I push into a strong position.

4. For numerous BBs it would make no difference if they had HE or not, but I think overall they should keep HE due to the dev blog announcement which states that WG adressed the issue with Battleships shaving off 15k from a DD with one AP salvo. So HE might be needed at some point.

5. Playing with friends <3, and what I consider an issue is the way they seem to balance things. I can not quite understand why several ships, which are obviously bad, remain in their state and then I see the dev blog which wants to buff Moskva...

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AP is only useful and this supposedly miracle ammo so many talk about when it freaking hits. My aim is not the best, I admit that, but it’s such fun to get a perfect broadside situation, less than 10k, perhaps even the enemy is hard aground against an island, or stopped by a wreck...

...then watch as the salvo flies off into a Never-Never Land straddle of overs and unders, or does nothing but overpens.

Aiming is a skill, I don’t deny that, but much beyond brawling range ‘aiming’ is nothing more than a myth, where you line up the shot, hoping and praying the shells don’t decide to go visit Disneyland after you shoot.

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I use the Scharnhorst and have never had a problem with AP outperforming HE. Does fine.

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2 hours ago, Defiant_Act said:

The point I want to raise is that I encounter a lot more BB's sitting in the back firing HE then I do BB's who fire AP or switch types when situationally appropriate. 

Why care about how other people play their BBs? HE firing BB might have nicely padded numbers but UK BB stats shows that that damage doesn't necessarily translate into wins. Also you aren't as good as you think you are, I suggest you look to improve your own game  before worrying about how bad other people play. 

1) Do you think Battleship gameplay has gotten better, worse, or just different since launch?

Slightly worst in the sense that there are too many BBs with below waterline or difficult to pen citadels. Not game breaking but made the skill cap lower in order to accommodate the average player base.

2) Do you think that the overall gameplay has gotten better, worse, or just different since launch?

Better: people don't remember the days of ...

  • 5 tier commander skill tree that cost 10 pts just to get to last stand and 15 to get to concealment expert
  • Bare bones mini-map information (no last spotted marker, no range rings)
  • Lack of dynamic cross hairs
  • Seal clubbing CVs at tier 4/5 with manual drops
  • Pre-nerfed IJN DD torpedo soups
  • Getting rained on by ships you can't shoot back at because of open water stealth fire
  • Tech Tree limited to IJN and USN lines (lack variety of ship types and play styles) 
  • Line-riding ships didn't lose engine power and messes up the aim point with lock-on
  • game ending in a draw because you need to cap or kill all of the opponent's ship, which lead to people running to corners in order to turn a lost game into a draw
  • No Operations mode, no Ranked mode, no Clan Battles mode
  • I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other things i'm forgetting

3) Do you agree with me in that Battleship HE has gotten out of hand? If not, why?

No because the only problem is with UK BB HE, even then using them doesn't necessarily win you anymore games than it does with other BBs  that relies on AP more. The only thing this foster is more average players using HE in their BB, and that just honestly helps me pad more wins.

4) Do you think Battleships should even have HE? (I'm thinking for historical purposes here).

If you want to bring history into this, Ship vs ship combat used "HE" rounds , and "AP" rounds were used against things like concrete bunkers. Game-wise, there's a time and place for each ammo type and it would make the game far less interesting if every BB is limited to AP rounds.

5) What are some good things that you like about this game? (I like being able to captain a ship I have been on)

The game is more strategic than most people think, it's a shooter that does not rely on having good twitch reflex to be successful at. 

6) What are some issues you have with this game and how do you think they can be fixed?

CV needs to be reworked from the ground up, but the Devs are working on it  so i'm eagerly waiting on their rework. 

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2 hours ago, ElrabinC said:

You are not "above average"

Your stats are very much below average with the exception of win rate.

That said, you've only got 425 battles under your belt, so you have a lot of room to grow and improve



 

I wasnt going to look up his stats or call anybody out but it seems to me 461 battles is a little low to be zipping around in Iowa. Could be wrong.

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AP is fine, as long as you know when and where to use AP.

 

Play german cruiser, they will teach you how deadly AP is when you use it right . HE on BB is only used against other angled BB, when you know he will never expose his broadside and your AP can't do anything (bow tanking Kurfust for instance). Except RN BB which have great HE damage + 1/4 HE pen, HE on BB is meh. If you division with a CV, the only reason you would shoot HE at someone in a BB is to destroy AA modules (and potentially force him to use his damage con) to allow your friendly CV to wipe him. Otherwise AP is just too good to not use it.

shot-18.05.16_14.29.58-0077.jpg

shot-18.06.14_22.33.06-0720.jpg

Edited by AlcatrazNC

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4 hours ago, Defiant_Act said:

I lived through out the entire battle. The picture that doesn't have the alienware is my game, the other picture is the one of my friend in the division with me. He fired HE the whole game except for one salvo. I fired AP the whole game...that is how broadsided these guys were. Bad RNG, I can understand, this game was an anomaly compared to the about 10 others before it. The point I want to raise is that I encounter a lot more BB's sitting in the back firing HE then I do BB's who fire AP or switch types when situationally appropriate. 

 

In that case I think those pictures illustrate the superiority of AP.   The top picture has 12 hits, the bottom 48 + 3 cits.

If your friend only fired AP once, then that means he did ~38k damage in a single volley.  The remaining ~70k hp over 48 hits gives approximately 17500 damage per 12 hits.  Not much more than your 16133 damage over 12.

HE isn’t as reliable as people make it out to be.  It’s easy, sure, but the raw alpha of AP is what makes people fear BBs.

 

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