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Snargfargle

Let's Talk Gearing

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I currently have Last Stand and Adrenaline rush on my Gearing. I've noticed, however, that many are taking Suitability Expert. Do you think that 3500 hitpoints is worth it? I tend to like AR because I can reload torpedoes faster if I get 3/4 of my hitpoints knocked off as I usually do after I am spotted by radar when capping the first cap.

Speaking of being spotted right off. I know that this is really going to tick off teams who usually start the game by screaming at the DDs to cap but when there are five or more radar ships on the enemy team  it really is suicide to try to contest a cap in a DD. In the last several games I've escaped just barely by turning tail and wiggle-waggling when radared and targeted by multiple cruisers. Perhaps its time to reassess the role of the DD in today's radar-rich environment. 

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i agree, something needs to change.

Maybe more points for DD's who make the effort.

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I will try to cap but will run when first spotted, you know the radar is coming. Since they know when you are in the cap, I let them burn the radar while running away. Spot for the team from that point and try to keep pesky radar ships spotted, most of them are squishy so ask for the team to concentrate fire on them. Capping without team support is not a real good Idea.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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Just now I entered a cap in my Gearing only to be immediately radared and targeted by six ships. I didn't survive even the first three minutes of that game. I think I can see now why many better DD players are using RDF to see if there are ships in the area before they attempt to cap. With the radar range and duration nowadays a DD can be radared before itself can spot the radaring ship.  

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9 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

I currently have Last Stand and Adrenaline rush on my Gearing. I've noticed, however, that many are taking Suitability Expert. Do you think that 3500 hitpoints is worth it? I tend to like AR because I can reload torpedoes faster if I get 3/4 of my hitpoints knocked off as I usually do after I am spotted by radar when capping the first cap.

Speaking of being spotted right off. I know that this is really going to tick off teams who usually start the game by screaming at the DDs to cap but when there are five or more radar ships on the enemy team  it really is suicide to try to contest a cap in a DD. In the last several games I've escaped just barely by turning tail and wiggle-waggling when radared and targeted by multiple cruisers. Perhaps its time to reassess the role of the DD in today's radar-rich environment. 

I am not a big fan of AR in general. while it makes sense, when you take a hard look at it....what does it really provide... your gun reload is so fast, not much benefit there and your torp reload... while healthy it provides nothing. In the case of being at 25% health with AR you gain about a 15 second reduction in torp reload ..which is good, but rarely is the day that a dd gets to fire torps non stop as soon as they are ready, usually one is always postioning the ship and waiting for the optimal shot.

So, with AR, you gain nothing while healthy, must be close to dead to receive benefit and in that scenario it may come into play or use 50% of the time. what else to use the points on is a different question, just think AR is over hyped.

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Just now, Snargfargle said:

Just now I entered a cap in my Gearing only to be immediately radared and targeted by six ships. I didn't survive even the first three minutes of that game. I think I can see now why many better DD players are using RDF to see if there are ships in the area before they attempt to cap. With the radar range and duration nowadays a DD can be radared before itself can spot the radaring ship.  

high tier DD play has morphed into a game of baiting out radar ships and spotting. To attempt to cap within the first 7 minutes of the game is ludicrous. Why would you ever tell the reds you are in the cap. Skirt the sides, and stay alive. its the only way to play dd now, I say it almost every game: dds its better to stay alive and cap later than cap early and die.... yet they rush like fools into caps and get deleted....over and over.

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22 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

Just now I entered a cap in my Gearing only to be immediately radared and targeted by six ships. I didn't survive even the first three minutes of that game. I think I can see now why many better DD players are using RDF to see if there are ships in the area before they attempt to cap. With the radar range and duration nowadays a DD can be radared before itself can spot the radaring ship.  

Very few ships can radar past concealment. YY can. Not sure about others. Not something I worry about in cruiser, just assume every B.B. o map is targeting me all the time no matter what. Once Radar boats open fire bloom concealment is enourmous.

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22 minutes ago, Sweetsie said:

high tier DD play has morphed into a game of baiting out radar ships and spotting. To attempt to cap within the first 7 minutes of the game is ludicrous. Why would you ever tell the reds you are in the cap. Skirt the sides, and stay alive. its the only way to play dd now, I say it almost every game: dds its better to stay alive and cap later than cap early and die.... yet they rush like fools into caps and get deleted....over and over.

Exactly. It’s a two part problem. The temporary saturation due to cruiser overload in que. Also driver adaptation and new tactics due to increasing threat posed by radar at high tiers. 

Edited by thebigblue

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SE is pretty much essential on gunboat DDs. Personally, I consider it essential on all DDs in general. It's basically 15 to 20% extra health.

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I prefer SE on all my USN DDs, cap fighting is a dangerous business and that extra health has saved me many times

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42 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

SE is pretty much essential on gunboat DDs. Personally, I consider it essential on all DDs in general. It's basically 15 to 20% extra health.

This.  Except I'd go so far as to say it's a requirement on all destroyers at tier 7 & above.

1 hour ago, Gerbertz said:

Maybe more points for DD's who make the effort.

And this.  Despite what many people will tell you, it is still possible to cap in high tier DDs, even in the early game.  But given that the personal reward for doing that is so minuscule, it's not really worth the risk.

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If you're seeing 5 radar ships you're unlucky. I usually see 3 or sometimes 4. Instead of rushing onto the cap, wait until they are all spotted and you know where they are, and know their ranges. Build a mental picture of where they can safely go to radar you. If they can get to you, it isnt worth risking a largr chunk of hitpoints. Sometimes it's okay to contest if the cap has a lot of cover. You will be spotted but not shot, and can move around when radar ends. Remember that tier 8-10 pan asian DDs and british cruisers have radar if they don't smoke. If you take everything mentioned above into account you will find yourself doing well against many radar ships, even as bottom tier. 

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2 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

I currently have Last Stand and Adrenaline rush on my Gearing. I've noticed, however, that many are taking Suitability Expert. Do you think that 3500 hitpoints is worth it? I tend to like AR because I can reload torpedoes faster if I get 3/4 of my hitpoints knocked off as I usually do after I am spotted by radar when capping the first cap.

Speaking of being spotted right off. I know that this is really going to tick off teams who usually start the game by screaming at the DDs to cap but when there are five or more radar ships on the enemy team  it really is suicide to try to contest a cap in a DD. In the last several games I've escaped just barely by turning tail and wiggle-waggling when radared and targeted by multiple cruisers. Perhaps its time to reassess the role of the DD in today's radar-rich environment. 

Suitability Expert?  Suitable for what?  :Smile-_tongue:

Anyways, most DD players seem to believe that SE is a near must have skill for gunboat DDs.

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SE is pretty much compulsory for destroyers.  It'd be stupid not to have it, frankly.

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20 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Suitability Expert?  Suitable for what?  :Smile-_tongue:

Anyways, most DD players seem to believe that SE is a near must have skill for gunboat DDs.

LOL, the automatic spelling corrector's guessed wrong that time.

I used some doubloons I had to respec my commander to give the Gearing Survivability Expert.

Here's what I ended up with.

1 Priority Target

4 Adrenaline Rush, Last Stand

6 Survivability Expert, Torpedo Armament Expertise

8 Inertial Fuse for HE Shells, Concealment Expert

19 Total

Although my guns fire more slowly without Basic Firing Training, the additional hitpoints may come in handy. Time will tell. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

LOL, the automatic spelling corrector's guessed wrong that time.

I used some doubloons I had to respec my commander to give the Gearing Survivability Expert.

Here's what I ended up with.

1 Priority Target

4 Adrenaline Rush, Last Stand

6 Survivability Expert, Torpedo Armament Expertise

8 Inertial Fuse for HE Shells, Concealment Expert

19 Total

Although my guns fire more slowly without Basic Firing Training, the additional hitpoints may come in handy. Time will tell. 

 

I'm not sure if IFHE is worth the cost for the Gearing.  I'm sure that it can be useful.  I'm just not sure that it's worth giving up what else you might get for those 4 points.  Also, not entirely sure that AR is worth it, though it is good.

I'd be tempted to take Torp Accel for the Gearing, because 16 km torps are a bit excessive and losing a little range for 5 more kts of speed on her torps seems worth the cost.  

Regardless, after PT, LS, SE, and CE, it can be always be a tricky decision regarding what to pick with the remaining 9 points, particularly on a hybrid DD like the Gearing.  And I suppose it also depends on your personal playstyle with her.

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3 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

I've noticed, however, that many are taking Suitability Expert. Do you think that 3500 hitpoints is worth it?

Freudian slip?

It's not suitable for capping unless you take Survivability Expert.

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3 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

I currently have Last Stand and Adrenaline rush on my Gearing. I've noticed, however, that many are taking Suitability Expert. Do you think that 3500 hitpoints is worth it? I tend to like AR because I can reload torpedoes faster if I get 3/4 of my hitpoints knocked off as I usually do after I am spotted by radar when capping the first cap.

Speaking of being spotted right off. I know that this is really going to tick off teams who usually start the game by screaming at the DDs to cap but when there are five or more radar ships on the enemy team  it really is suicide to try to contest a cap in a DD. In the last several games I've escaped just barely by turning tail and wiggle-waggling when radared and targeted by multiple cruisers. Perhaps its time to reassess the role of the DD in today's radar-rich environment. 

SE is my first 3 point skill on US DDs, even ahead of SI.  It will have your rear if you eat a torp early on.  Must have.

Some discussion with Gearing in a radar heavy game:

 

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This is what I use. It's the exact same build I use on my IJN DDs (with a few exceptions that have specialized captains like Harekaze and Akizuki) but for slightly different reasons:

YaW7fYb.png

On my IJN DDs I use Radio Location to mostly for evasion. On the Gearing I use it more for hunting. At T10 you get maximum benefit from Survivability Expert and also since it's a DD percentage wise you get by far the greatest gains from it. Preventative Maintenance, Last Stand, Concealment Expert are required on all DDs as a base and everything else is on top of that (I don't have Russians to T10 that's the only one I don't have). You could switch torp reload for Basic Firing Training if you wanted more gun boat (10% faster gun reload on top of Adrenaline Rush vs torps). I play mine like IJN though (torpedo focus) so I don't. I like the stock 16.5 KM torps as they have better detection than anything IJN and therefore a better hit ratio (for me 2% better, which doesn't sound like much until you realize it's like 20%+ better).

 

EDIT: The smoke is amazing, but its efficacy is substantially reduced with so much radar at tier that I don't think the extra charge is worth it over the other 2 skills I have. I also run Engine Boost Modification 1 for an extra minute of speed boost making Superintendent even less desirable.

Edited by w4spl3g

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3 hours ago, Sweetsie said:

high tier DD play has morphed into a game of baiting out radar ships and spotting. To attempt to cap within the first 7 minutes of the game is ludicrous. Why would you ever tell the reds you are in the cap. Skirt the sides, and stay alive. its the only way to play dd now, I say it almost every game: dds its better to stay alive and cap later than cap early and die.... yet they rush like fools into caps and get deleted....over and over.

DD's have kind of a [edited] choice to make in the early game: you either try to cap taking a lot of risk for not much reward, or you play passively which risks your team losing before you get a chance to make a difference.

24 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

LOL, the automatic spelling corrector's guessed wrong that time.

I used some doubloons I had to respec my commander to give the Gearing Survivability Expert.

Here's what I ended up with.

1 Priority Target

4 Adrenaline Rush, Last Stand

6 Survivability Expert, Torpedo Armament Expertise

8 Inertial Fuse for HE Shells, Concealment Expert

19 Total

Although my guns fire more slowly without Basic Firing Training, the additional hitpoints may come in handy. Time will tell. 

 

If you need more points you could swap out TAE. At tier 10 torpedoes don't get the job done so investing resources into them is kind of a waste.

Has anyone else noticed that DD builds invest a ton of points into shoring up their weak survivability? If we consider SE to be mandatory, like some of the others here, the first 10 points a DD takes are going to be defensive. Shouldn't focusing on what a ship is good at be a viable option too?

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50 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

LOL, the automatic spelling corrector's guessed wrong that time.

I used some doubloons I had to respec my commander to give the Gearing Survivability Expert.

Here's what I ended up with.

1 Priority Target

4 Adrenaline Rush, Last Stand

6 Survivability Expert, Torpedo Armament Expertise

8 Inertial Fuse for HE Shells, Concealment Expert

19 Total

Although my guns fire more slowly without Basic Firing Training, the additional hitpoints may come in handy. Time will tell. 

 

I use the following

PM

Last Stand

Torp reload, vigilance, BFT and fire starter

Concealment

there is no need for priority target in dd, if you are detected, they will shoot at you. BFT helps with rapid fire, more fire chances and with AA. I'm not sure the gun caliber is the right size for IFHE.

 

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2 minutes ago, Kochira said:

DD's have kind of a [edited] choice to make in the early game: you either try to cap taking a lot of risk for not much reward, or you play passively which risks your team losing before you get a chance to make a difference.

If you need more points you could swap out TAE. At tier 10 torpedoes don't get the job done so investing resources into them is kind of a waste.

Has anyone else noticed that DD builds invest a ton of points into shoring up their weak survivability? If we consider SE to be mandatory, like some of the others here, the first 10 points a DD takes are going to be defensive. Shouldn't focusing on what a ship is good at be a viable option too?

The MMing sets how aggressive you can be on objectives in the early game.  If your team is able to keep the enemy from capping with radar, it opens up opportunities to spot ships that are supporting the enemy DDs, in particular the radar CAs camping behind islands.  Its not a crapchoice, just like the Gearing video I posted above.  If you are not useful on cap because of the radar threat, go be useful to the team elsewhere.  The best choice in my opinion is to scout the radar CAs that are keeping you from cap.  Getting them killed, or driving them off gives you the window you need to cap.  You just need to know where you are more useful to your team.

Regarding skills, you take what you NEED first.  The basic DD captain needs at least 10 points, for some specific DDs its 12.  The needs, last stand to give you a chance at escaping if your engine or rudder is knocked out is absolutely must have.  Survivability expert is needed because of your small HP pool.  That few thousand HP represents a good percentage boost to your HP.  I have lost count how many games I survived in by those few thousand hit points, its probably close to 2,000 games.  SE often times keeps you in the game if you catch a torp amidship, a situation where you would often be headed right back to port.  Concealment is your armor so CE I dont need to discuss aside to say its mission critical.

Once you get beyond the basic 10 points you can start specializing.  If you want better scouting information RPF is a good skill to take, that information can win you the game.  The combat buffs TAE, BFT, AR are always good to have, but not critical to winning the game because the buffs are pretty minor, a dozen seconds off your torps, .4 seconds quicker reload on your guns, it adds up, and potentially can make a difference, but not nearly as much as the critical skills.  SI is handy for that 4th consumable, but in my experience most games you dont have a chance to really use that 4th consumable, so its a gamble for the long game.

Bottom line, you need to have the mission critical stuff before you dip into the nice to have stuff.

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8 minutes ago, Sweetsie said:

I use the following

PM

Last Stand

Torp reload, vigilance, BFT and fire starter

Concealment

there is no need for priority target in dd, if you are detected, they will shoot at you. BFT helps with rapid fire, more fire chances and with AA. I'm not sure the gun caliber is the right size for IFHE.

 

Gun boats are often better served by PT.

The reason is the ability to farm while holding back important consumables like smoke.  That one point skill can often save you needing to invest in SI a 3 point skill and instead invest those points elsewhere.

In general PM s a good skill to have though.

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1 hour ago, Snargfargle said:

LOL, the automatic spelling corrector's guessed wrong that time.

I used some doubloons I had to respec my commander to give the Gearing Survivability Expert.

Here's what I ended up with.

1 Priority Target

4 Adrenaline Rush, Last Stand

6 Survivability Expert, Torpedo Armament Expertise

8 Inertial Fuse for HE Shells, Concealment Expert

19 Total

Although my guns fire more slowly without Basic Firing Training, the additional hitpoints may come in handy. Time will tell. 

 

Drop IFHE. It's not worth it.

You take SE over BFT because BFT gives you a 10% damage buff in a gunfight, whereas SE gives you > 10% more HP in that same gunfight, while still being useful against things like accidental torpedo hits or escaping Des Moines radar bubbles.

Pick up either BFT + a 1 point skill after dropping IFHE or grab RPF. If you plan on ever playing competitive go for RPF. Otherwise welcome to the great RPF vs other damage skills debate in the destroyer community. If you can use the skill it's priceless. If you can't it's worthless. If you think you're gods gift to DD players and can tell where all the ships are regardless, feel free to slot it out. It's my mandatory 5th skill, but others who play just as well sometimes disagree.

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1 hour ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

Gun boats are often better served by PT.

The reason is the ability to farm while holding back important consumables like smoke.  That one point skill can often save you needing to invest in SI a 3 point skill and instead invest those points elsewhere.

In general PM s a good skill to have though.

there is no such thing as Gun boats any more. besides the Khancer. you are in a knife fight or you aren't. You don't need PT to tell you that. You are in a protected space or you aren't. If you need PT to tell you if you are vulnerable you have bigger issues than worrying about that skill. 

you should know what dd you can kill or when to run...

With each high tier game having tons of radar & hydro, dd knifefights for a cap have gone away, sooner or later one gets trucked by a crusier...and its game over.

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