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KSN

Make Admiral Graf Spee Scary Again! Time for a Eugen/Hipper Iteration pass?

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I have had the Graf Spee since it was released; that was a long time ago. I admit I stopped playing it as its limitations balance wasn't as fun or unique to play (yes torp angles are cool) as something else like the Scharnhorst!

I took the Graf Spee out for a spin after more than a year or more, and I was left wanting. So is it time for a re-visit on this T6 Premium? I can see that she is an interesting specimine of a historic ship, and that there would be reasons why in game she is slow, lacks anything resembling agility, and may not be able to shoot far (because T6 ), but the issues I was left wondering about, is having 283mm but shorter range than Scharnhorst?

I'm far from knowledgable about balancing ships, but it seems that with a slight rudder tweak, and some engine power to keep her from slowing down to almost half speed for even 1/2 rudder turns, that something to make her "special" again would be to give her spotting aircraft and a hydro tweak.

While I''m still happy to have her in my inventory of ships, I won't be playing her for any type of competitive play. And there in lies the point, every premium should be something we want to play, and perhaps it's time to do an iteration pass on the Admiral Graf Spee?

5b2527acd9813_ALAdmiralGrafSpee.thumb.PNG.8f3343e7e4ab56e2e70b32e733f716f6.PNG

Scary Graf Spee is good...

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Normal Graf Spee has a 54.69% lifetime win rate on NA. HSF Graf Spee has a 52.66% lifetime win rate on NA.

Looks fine to me.

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6 minutes ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

Normal Graf Spee has a 54.69% lifetime win rate on NA. HSF Graf Spee has a 52.66% lifetime win rate on NA.

Looks fine to me.

Hence the question mark... But the one thing that did really bother me personally was how weak the propulsion is when you are turning, that was annoying, and makes open water game play very difficult.

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Just now, KSN said:

Hence the question mark...

Hence I am implying that it doesn't need a buff at this time..

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7 minutes ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

Hence I am implying that it doesn't need a buff at this time..

@Super_Dreadnought Sorry if that came across as smug or snotty, it wasn't intended. 

So does WGing only make iteration passes on ships 'if' the ships average W/R is low? or are Refreshes done as a matter of course every so often?

Again I don't understand balance, I just see the limitations I have while playing that make me not want to play: truncated gun range, power engine power while turning, no spotter plane. Perhaps I just don't know her well enough to play to her strong suits?

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19 minutes ago, KSN said:

@Super_Dreadnought Sorry if that came across as smug or snotty, it wasn't intended. 

So does WGing only make iteration passes on ships 'if' the ships average W/R is low? or are Refreshes done as a matter of course every so often?

Again I don't understand balance, I just see the limitations I have while playing that make me not want to play: truncated gun range, power engine power while turning, no spotter plane. Perhaps I just don't know her well enough to play to her strong suits?

Basically yes. While the Spee has limitations, it still remains strong enough to hold her statistics high enough. Given most people refuse to play her quickly once they realize it's a bit awkward to use, the only people left are those who play her well. As she's a premium, no one is forced to either. 
Hipper is a forced play if one wishes to advance up the German cruiser tree, and has always, always been weaker than her stable mates. WG has been steadily buffing her over time, and it's just never enough. Adjustments to HE damage, adjustments to other soft stats, they added the entire new C-hull with AA buff, the C-hull had issues with turrets getting blocked by AA mounts so they fixed that, they gave the Germans 1/4 HE pen, and they recently gave Hipper 11s reload because she still wasn't powerful enough. Eugen is basically a copy, and was actually slightly worse in everything but HP, she had a little bit better HP. When Hipper got a reload buff, Eugen's reload remained the same but she received a Heal. So they have a long history of mediocrity in WG's eyes. 
Spee is just trapped really. Her firepower is too much for lower tier but her design limitations make her terrible at uptiers. She had Diesel engines after all, not steam. You have to just fire largely AP and try to do what she was designed to do: Hunt anything her size and smaller, and run away from bigger cruisers and battleships. She just will never be an 'excellent' Tier 6 ship like Budyonny for example because her design is just bad, it would require a lot of soft stat buffs. 

Edited by Seniorious
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43 minutes ago, DarfTarts421 said:

In 97 battles in my Graf Spee, I've managed to keep a 61% win rate in her. She's fine.

Well I guess I'll co-op play her for a while to figure out how to use her well - the constructive feedback is appreciated!

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Graf Spee is a weird ship. She's less fast and agile than most cruisers, but she hits really really hard.

I happily hunt other cruisers and same-tier battleships. 16km is better range than many same-tier cruisers, so I engage those outside their gun range.
The heavy guns and the hydro-acoustic turn British cruisers into Scooby Snacks.
Battleships, well, I pop out from cover and give them "two in the hat" and fade away. If the battleship gets too close, I might bowtank it until close range coming up one side, drop torpedoes across its path, then cross in front while it's dodging my first torps and use my other-side torps to ruin its day.
In a few games, I've actually charged up between two battleships and while they're cranking their turrets, torped them both.

Graf Spee is a great ambush predator.

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