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crazyferret23777

Can't make the Roma work

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Only had it 2 weeks but I seem to be playing her as a brawler which is instinct because I play the germans so much! I need to change my play style will using her so is the key to being effective using concealment? Should I flank with her instead of brawling? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

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37 minutes ago, crazyferret23777 said:

Only had it 2 weeks but I seem to be playing her as a brawler which is instinct because I play the germans so much! I need to change my play style will using her so is the key to being effective using concealment? Should I flank with her instead of brawling? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

I cannot stress this enough: DO NOT BRAWL!!!!!

Sorry for being dramatic, but that is a quick trip back to port. While that fantastic turret rotation might make it easy to track targets at close range, nothing else about her wants to be that close.

Her secondarys are pathetic, the big ones shoot slowly, and shoot AP, and the small ones have bad fire chance, and are too small to damage anything other than some DDs.

In addition, the armor is great for bow tanking, but the above water citadel eats hits at close range if you show any of your sides.

She does excel at flanking, however. Her ideal situation is to sneak into a good position, where you can force the red team to choose to show broadside to your monster penetration AP, or the rest of your team. Preferably with an island blocking any shots at your sides.

That ain't easy to do though. She's not hard to play decently, but she is hard to play super well in, at least in my opinion.

And for a final Roma tip: pray to the random number generator before every trigger pull. Her accuracy is awful, and her smaller guns mean that you get more bounces if shells don't hit the right spot.

Hope this helps.

  • Cool 2

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1 hour ago, Baskerville77 said:

I cannot stress this enough: DO NOT BRAWL!!!!!

Sorry for being dramatic, but that is a quick trip back to port. While that fantastic turret rotation might make it easy to track targets at close range, nothing else about her wants to be that close.

Her secondarys are pathetic, the big ones shoot slowly, and shoot AP, and the small ones have bad fire chance, and are too small to damage anything other than some DDs.

In addition, the armor is great for bow tanking, but the above water citadel eats hits at close range if you show any of your sides.

She does excel at flanking, however. Her ideal situation is to sneak into a good position, where you can force the red team to choose to show broadside to your monster penetration AP, or the rest of your team. Preferably with an island blocking any shots at your sides.

That ain't easy to do though. She's not hard to play decently, but she is hard to play super well in, at least in my opinion.

And for a final Roma tip: pray to the random number generator before every trigger pull. Her accuracy is awful, and her smaller guns mean that you get more bounces if shells don't hit the right spot.

Hope this helps.

^

Pretty much.

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It's an odd ship

Your concealment says to get in close, but the guns misbehave at all ranges and will almost always 100% overpen cruisers inside of 15km.

If you shoot BBs, then getting in close allows for some big hits, but this is also rather bad, thanks to RNG

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She's an inaccurate ship. If you don't like inaccurate ships, she may not be the one for you. Gun accuracy matters a lot to me, a ship with inaccurate guns is pretty much an automatic pass for me unless it's a good brawler.

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2 hours ago, Baskerville77 said:

I cannot stress this enough: DO NOT BRAWL!!!!!

I disagree entirely. Roma's superb turret traverse means that if you brawl smart, you can keep broadsiding a foe at point-blank while he struggles to bring his guns to bear. A better rule of thumb would be "don't brawl if you're bad."

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1 minute ago, Battlecruiser_Goeben said:

I disagree entirely. Roma's superb turret traverse means that if you brawl smart, you can keep broadsiding a foe at point-blank while he struggles to bring his guns to bear. A better rule of thumb would be "don't brawl if you're bad."

And now the question is, how often does BB brawling occur past mid-tiers? When Roma sees Tier 9 and 10s, which is the norm for Tier 8s, she'll be chewed by battleships with more accurate guns at long range. Iowa / Missouri, Yamato, Montana, Musashi etc.

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Roma's three main assets are her speed, concealment, and gun penetration. I suppose the best way to play her would be like one of the USN fast BBs, as a flanker and mid-range ship.

Roma's guns are interesting, as you can cause severe damage should they hit, but they also tend to overpen frequently and are quite inaccurate. Unfortunately, that's just something you'll have to get used to.

Roma may have good bow armor, but her citadel is above the waterline, and thus she is quite easy to citadel should you show too much side.

Two things Roma does NOT have going for her are secondary guns and AA. Roma's secondaries are quite piddling, and you certainly won't be winning any fighters against Bismarck or Tirpitz anytime soon. Her AA is barely better than Tirpitz's or Amagi's, and the fact that she is vulnerable to AP bombs makes her a prime target for any tier 8+ USN CV or Graf Zeppelin.

You mention that you play the Germans a lot; I'm afraid you'll have to realize that different lines and nations require different playstyles. Playing a Yamato the same way you'd play a Grober Kurfurst, for instance, is a surefire way to get sent back to port early.

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38 minutes ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

And now the question is, how often does BB brawling occur past mid-tiers? When Roma sees Tier 9 and 10s, which is the norm for Tier 8s, she'll be chewed by battleships with more accurate guns at long range. Iowa / Missouri, Yamato, Montana, Musashi etc.

I don't know? Enough? Tier 8s are still seeing tier 6s a fair amount of the time, and you never know when you're going to catch an Iowa or whatever who has pushed up too far and exposes the broadside.

I didn't say "brawl exclusively." However, "don't brawl in her" seems like a bit of a disservice. She'd be a horrible knife fighter without that traverse, but to ignore its utility in situations where it can be put to use is stupid. "Never" is a very broad field indeed.

Edited by Battlecruiser_Goeben

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58 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_Goeben said:

I disagree entirely. Roma's superb turret traverse means that if you brawl smart, you can keep broadsiding a foe at point-blank while he struggles to bring his guns to bear. A better rule of thumb would be "don't brawl if you're bad."

Sorry, but to successful brawl in the Roma, you not only have to brawl super smart, but hope your opponent does something reckless and stupid.

Roma's smaller guns and overmatch problems means she has to rely on her terrible HE shells if the opponent is bow tanking, cause her secondarys sure won't help. Beating a Roma in a brawl is as simple as throwing your BB into reverse. That way, the Roma player has to either disengage by turning, showing her weak broadside to you, disengage by reversing, leaving her a sitting duck for torps or other ships, or just try to ram, and most likely forfeit a ship that only gets stronger as the game goes on. None of those are good options.

Not to mention her turret traverse, while absolutely wonderful, is of limited use in that situation. Roma is not so fast that she can reliably outrun the opponent's turrets in most situations, and if your turrets are using that awesome speed, your side is exposed. And if your side is exposed, you're eating lots of almost completely un-healable damage.

In my opinion, that giving up too much to gain something that's possible to get at long range with her ridiculous penetration in a much safer way.

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16 minutes ago, Baskerville77 said:

Sorry, but to successful brawl in the Roma, you not only have to brawl super smart, but hope your opponent does something reckless and stupid.

Roma's smaller guns and overmatch problems means she has to rely on her terrible HE shells if the opponent is bow tanking, cause her secondarys sure won't help. Beating a Roma in a brawl is as simple as throwing your BB into reverse. That way, the Roma player has to either disengage by turning, showing her weak broadside to you, disengage by reversing, leaving her a sitting duck for torps or other ships, or just try to ram, and most likely forfeit a ship that only gets stronger as the game goes on. None of those are good options.

Not to mention her turret traverse, while absolutely wonderful, is of limited use in that situation. Roma is not so fast that she can reliably outrun the opponent's turrets in most situations, and if your turrets are using that awesome speed, your side is exposed. And if your side is exposed, you're eating lots of almost completely un-healable damage.

In my opinion, that giving up too much to gain something that's possible to get at long range with her ridiculous penetration in a much safer way.

Except that a good brawler (Roma or not) isn't going to approach a battleship who is going in full reverse bow-on. Brawling isn't about just running out into the open and tackling a person - it's about utilizing terrain and distraction to give yourself an advantage, then pouncing. You're painting a single (bad) brawling scenario and then writing off Roma because she can't do the impossible - that's great, and all, but it's selling the ship short on something she can do, if played well... selective reasoning aside.

Edited by Battlecruiser_Goeben

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4 hours ago, Lert said:

^

Pretty much.

Except every time I try to do such in a supposedly awesome flanking battleship...

...most of the Reds seem to decide THAT is the best flank and I get screwed anyway.

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6 hours ago, Baskerville77 said:

I cannot stress this enough: DO NOT BRAWL!!!!!

Sorry for being dramatic, but that is a quick trip back to port. While that fantastic turret rotation might make it easy to track targets at close range, nothing else about her wants to be that close.

Her secondarys are pathetic, the big ones shoot slowly, and shoot AP, and the small ones have bad fire chance, and are too small to damage anything other than some DDs.

In addition, the armor is great for bow tanking, but the above water citadel eats hits at close range if you show any of your sides.

She does excel at flanking, however. Her ideal situation is to sneak into a good position, where you can force the red team to choose to show broadside to your monster penetration AP, or the rest of your team. Preferably with an island blocking any shots at your sides.

That ain't easy to do though. She's not hard to play decently, but she is hard to play super well in, at least in my opinion.

And for a final Roma tip: pray to the random number generator before every trigger pull. Her accuracy is awful, and her smaller guns mean that you get more bounces if shells don't hit the right spot.

Hope this helps.

Couldn't have said it better. Roma is NOT a brawler. She is one of the easiest BB's to 1 shot if you have any side available. Great at bow tanking however. The guns are also god awful wonky. Use concealment, go for broadside shots, and as said pray to RNG that you...

  1. actually hit the target
  2. do more than over pens and shatters

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Sorry man. it is a weak ship. High citadel don,t allow it to brawl. inaccurate guns don't allow it to snipe well

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Roma is a great ship, but hard to play, its very unforgiven. 

 

As it was pointed before, Roma is not a brawler (poor citadel and secundaries). Roma also isnt a sniper (poor dispersion and short range). I find geral to be at her best at middle ranges, around the edge of your concealment, where you can use you great armor to great effect and dispersion is not a big deal anymore. Also, go to the flanks, this way It makes much easier to bow on/angled. 

 

IMO, work in the flanks and stay at middle ranges, around the edge of your concealment. 

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Roma is garbage, mostly due to an armor flaw that makes it stupid easy to citadel her from ANY ship if she shows a glimpse of side. But she does have some strengths to her.

Her concealment is amazing. Like crazy good. Also, she has well distributed armor that makes her very tanky against HE spam. So two ways to play this ship:

- Concealment tease: Stay outside of concealment range and blink in and out of the fight. Open fire on targets that show broadside.
- Flank and go bow on, Yamato style (minus the amazing Yamato guns of course)

DO NOT brawl in this ship! Again, I can't stress enough how misleading her thick belt armor is. There's a gap between the belt and citadel that can be threaded by plunging shells hitting her 70mm upper belt. You WILL take devastating damage from everyone if you show sides in this ship.

I've personally given up on playing her as the combo of faulty armor, stupidly innaccurate guns, and miserably bad AA just makes for her a very unenjoyable ship. If they could fix her citadel so that it was flush against her main belt (or significantly receded like on Giulio), she might be more comfortable to play. Another option is to drop her citadel to the waterline so that her main belt actually has a purpose. As it is now, the only Romas I want to see are on the enemy team because it helps me get my damage numbers up.

Edited by KaptainKaybe
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Last time I tried to brawl in Roma I got deleted by a patient Missouri waiting for me to make the pass so he could blast my citadel to bits. Roma can take ungodly amounts of punishment at times, but a brawl is not one of those times. Roma also struggles to deal with cruisers and destroyers that close the distance for torpedo runs.

Generally speaking, I've found that Roma doesn't want to get in close to anything.

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The Roma has very good armor when pointed at the enemy. She has good speed and maneuverability. Her Turrets turn like a dream. 

What the Roma Doesn't have is reliable guns. The main guns are slow loading and inaccurate. They will troll you as much as they troll the enemy. I once took 16k out of a broad side Tirpitz at 16k, poor BB though I hit his citadel turned and ran away. But my next shot aimed at a stationary Broad Side cruiser at 8k was disappointing. What few shells hit the targets just over penned. 

I think they Should Buff the Roma's guns. They either need to load quicker or be more accurate. I don't mind having a Shot gun for a Battleship I just need a faster reload to staturate the target area. I would rather have a more accurate Battleship that way the targets I aim at take reliable damage. And if I can accurately hit things I wouldn't mind the slow reload.  

 

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9 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

Only had it 2 weeks but I seem to be playing her as a brawler which is instinct because I play the germans so much! I need to change my play style will using her so is the key to being effective using concealment? Should I flank with her instead of brawling? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

She's a flanker, and medium range specialist. Punish ships, from concealment with shells that travel faster than they can react. A little (and I do mean very little) predictive lead time, results in high dmg salvos, as people will only START to dodge when your shells are already going to impact the target. She is also great at drilling other bbs through their superstructure for 10k a pop when they go bow in. 

Play her more like a North Carolina. Fire, examine your situation, determine if you need to fire again, or re position.  She's behind the NC in overall power, but imo she's a comfortable 2nd place BB at T8 once you figure out how to best use her railgun speed bullets that don't allow for much reaction from red team before they impact, and use her stealth properly. (I have a 59% WR in her MBH is 32%)

Edited by Mavairo

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5 hours ago, Battlecruiser_Goeben said:

Except that a good brawler (Roma or not) isn't going to approach a battleship who is going in full reverse bow-on. Brawling isn't about just running out into the open and tackling a person - it's about utilizing terrain and distraction to give yourself an advantage, then pouncing. You're painting a single (bad) brawling scenario and then writing off Roma because she can't do the impossible - that's great, and all, but it's selling the ship short on something she can do, if played well... selective reasoning aside.

First, can I just say it's a treat to have an actual discussion on the internet where it dosn't devolve into name calling at the first, overall minor disagreement? I'd almost forgotten that was possible. While I may disagree with your opinion, I cannot fault the way you put them forwards. Thank you.

That said, on to my rebuttal:

Even in that specific, advantageous scenario where any battleship could do well in a brawl, I would still rather be in any other tier 8 BB than the Roma, and I like the Roma. 

  • The Alabama has a super tight turning circle letting her adopt the best angle quickly, on top of higher alpha strike and a submerged citadel. (The Massachusetts has all that, plus better secondaries from what I've heard.)
  • The Amagi has the heaviest broadside in the tier, more raw penetration at that range, and better secondaries, not to mention almost British HE.
  • The Bismark and Tirpitz... are the Bismark and Tirpitz. In my opinion, the two best brawlers tier for tier.
  • The Gascogne and Richelieu are both fast enough to reposition, both have better secondaries, and one can bring absurd amounts of firepower to play while bow tanking, and the other has a heal that's off cool-down more than it is on.
  • The Kii has everything the Amagi has, plus torpedoes.
  • The Monarch has a faster reload, letting her switch between AP and HE quicker as well as compensating for the 100 less damage on her AP, plus that absurd British HE. 
  • The North Carolina is, in my opinion, the second worst brawler at the tier, but she still has a better broadside and bigger shells than the Roma.

While the Roma can brawl, in the sense that every battleship can brawl, she is utterly unsuited to it. Almost all of her strengths- Such as amazing concealment, best penetration over range, and railgun muzzle velocity- fall away at brawling ranges, while many of her weaknesses- Like weak sides, horrible secondaries, and overmatch and HE problems- are the opposite of what I look for in a good brawling BB.

Honestly, I would gladly give up the turret rotation speed in exchange for more accuracy. The way she is now, almost everything is great for a sniping battleship, but she has the accuracy and rotation speed of a brawler, without any way to use them.

As she is right now, she's less than the sum of her parts.

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From a rabid fan boy PoV: If Stalingrad is getting all the accuracy in the world at 20+ km and improved autobounce in one of the test versions then Roma can have decent accuracy at sub 18km. Most of the rounds are going to invariably overpen. Especially since WG has already created an artificially large citadel compared to other ships that magically have theirs disappeared. As well as choosing the worst interpretation for the "HE" shell. :cap_like:

Conveniently Russia has already been conveniently decoupled from the high muzzle velocity/bad dispersion group of Germany/France/Italy. :cap_win:

One very subjective thing I can suggest is not using the aim module, I'm honestly not sure it makes a difference when averaged out.  You are so dependent on the RNG roll anyways. With the current odds of ending up on a team that wants to kite and burn trying to get stuck in will be a frustrating experience in the Roma. Best to hang back a bit and hope for a good salvo or two. Especially with the AP changes to benefit destroyers in the pipeline. On your results screen 5+ ships will all have 5-10k damage and one for 40k+. :cap_wander:

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3 hours ago, Sparviero said:

Conveniently Russia has already been conveniently decoupled from the high muzzle velocity/bad dispersion group of Germany/France/Italy. :cap_win:

Kronshtadt would like a word with you. It's guns mirror all the issues with Roma's. Horrible accuracy, over pen left and right, terrible HE, etc...It's like they swapped Roma's guns onto Kronshtadt and just called them something different and took a little damage away. I swear it feels like Roma when playing it from a gun perspective.

Can't hit anything at range and if close enough to actually hit = over pens. Good luck if you have to use HE for any reason and actually expect fires and damage = LOLOLOL.

Not sure what you are talking about with the French though? Their guns are fine. German guns just have bad accuracy but if you hit they do good damage at least. Roma and Kronshtadt are in a whole separate class of suck on their own.

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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7 hours ago, Mavairo said:

She's a flanker, and medium range specialist

Roma just isn't fast enough to flank these days...

Richelieu and Alsace do it way better.

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3 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

Roma just isn't fast enough to flank these days...

Richelieu and Alsace do it way better.

I play Roma regularly. She's just fine at it, especially with her sub 11.5km stealth. 

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