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Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu

US cruisers: What the numbers say after two weeks.

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I agree on Pensacola and Cleveland which I've played, there's no real incentive to play the CA changes otherwise so I've not done so.

Cleveland's too squishy and situational to be truly good. She is a lot more fun with the better traverse and less vulnerability to just getting facerolled by DD HE. Pensacola's just sad with poor traverse, not necessarily bad, just not a lot of fun.

 

Dallas looks pretty stupid as a core concept. Helena also looks pretty bad, not much of a firepower upgrade on T6 Cleveland and worse AA and IIRC HP a tier higher? Not a great combination.

9dJ looks great for beating up poor T5 DD with no idea what's going on, but otherwise has trash speed (30kt), trash range (13.6) and trash HP (33,300) as well as pretty underwhelming AA with the 5in/25. She also handles like a tank.

Seattle looks poor on paper, maybe ROF module and repair will be enough - but the T9's which are just 'T8+module' have tended to kinda suck - looking at you Ibuki in particular.

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all i want is my superior nueve de julio with radar.

  • Boring 1

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Kind of shocking the Graf Spee is outperforming the Pensacola. The weird dispersion and limited barrels prevent me from ever getting in a good groove with it. Neat ship to have in port though. 

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OP you are saying the Pensacola is one ship up from the worst ship at T6 and you are calling that middle of the pack? OK  That is bottom of the pack to me.

The NO was bottom of the pack at T8 and now it is a couple up form the bottom.  OK maybe some improvement but being better than Atlanta and Indy is not saying much. but again NOT middle of the pack.

Cleveland last week when I checked was averaging 67K damage.  Not you are saying 47K, let see where it end up in 2 months.

 

In all it is way to early to judge.  In my hands they all perform worse than tehy did at their previous tiers, especially the Cleveland which was give no buff to survivability.  It is way to easy to be deleted by a T10 BB from all the way across a map.

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Cleveland is not impressive at all at T8.  I've been slapping them around badly with my Nola.  Nola is fantastic, perhaps slightly OP.

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It's hard to play cruisers (or any class really) right now because of summer holiday+campaign. I've noticed battleships (and everyone) playing a lot more passively, and cruisers tend to get prioritized (that mission which requires you to get X number of citadel hits). I've just had the worst day in a while, out of 15 battles or so only 3 or 4 were satisfactory, meaning I did well enough+it was a win. Seeing lots of strange things. For example, lemming train on fault line straight to enemy base, ignoring the enemies as they pushed in. I held off half the enemy force and didn't last long. Eventually the enemy team fell apart and we won, but it was an extremely unsatisfying win because my team mates were so incompetent. Still, EVEN dying so early, I STILL ended up 2nd place with only 44k damage. It's so tough playing during holidays because you have to expect the unexpected, which I'm failing to do.

 

Come on kids! Go play some kazoos!

 

  Do you think we will see the cruiser population explode once more when 0.7.6 drops? 

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18 hours ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

Also the fact that her reload of 8.5 seconds isn't too bad considering she has 3 more guns than Cleveland and old Cleveland's reload was 7.5 seconds. I think I'm going to play the hell out of her, and I'll also pick up Boise if it stays as Boise.

The video stuntman did on Helena showed her at 7.5s reload and ~14.7km range. Makes sense because i thought WG rectified that usn cruisers were at a huge disadvantage to every cruiser line due to lack of range, torpedoes and lazy velocity. 

If helena has an 8.5s reload at 14km range as you say then she wont nearly be competitive against either t7 CLs and definitely not the CAs like Algerie and Myoko.

Schores with 12 guns and 7.5s reload not only vastly out ranges her, but has better velocity and torpedoes of her own. Fiji and Belfast not only have 7.5s reloads but smoke on top.

The only thinh helena appears to bring is an extra turret thats offset by the significantly slower reload and vastly shorter range.

Edited by Crokodone

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6 minutes ago, Crokodone said:

The video stuntman did on Helena showed her at 7.5s reload and ~14.7km range. Makes sense because i thought WG rectified that usn cruisers were at a huge disadvantage to every cruiser line due to lack of range, torpedoes and lazy velocity. 

If helena has an 8.5s reload at 14km range as you say then she wont nearly be competitive against either t7 CLs and definitely not the CAs like Algerie and Myoko.

Schores with 12 guns and 7.5s reload not only vastly out ranges her, but has better velocity and torpedoes of her own. Fiji and Belfast not only have 7.5s reloads but smoke on top.

The only thinh helena appears to bring is an extra turret thats offset by the significantly slower reload and vastly shorter range.

Do you expect Helena to have low stats? How is she in the armor department compared to Atlanta?

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Just now, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

Do you expect Helena to have low stats? How is she in the armor department compared to Atlanta?

I've had Clevelands struggle to hit my New Orleans at 10km.  Helena will struggle too.

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3 hours ago, Praxz said:

Kind of shocking the Graf Spee is outperforming the Pensacola. The weird dispersion and limited barrels prevent me from ever getting in a good groove with it. Neat ship to have in port though. 

Graf Spee has t8 levels of health with a heal and the best torpeco arcs on any cruiser in the game. 

In regards to Pensacola, the ruddershift hurts her the most but, sticking to AP yields some very amusing results on lower tier cruisers and satisfaction on broadside bbs. I know its not cola but i had a 94k game with my New Orleans using almost nothing but ap.

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3 hours ago, Praxz said:

Kind of shocking the Graf Spee is outperforming the Pensacola. The weird dispersion and limited barrels prevent me from ever getting in a good groove with it. Neat ship to have in port though. 

Graf spee is good.  Pensacola got nerfed to fight the same ships she was getting her teeth kicked in by before.  What's surprising about this?

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4 minutes ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

Do you expect Helena to have low stats? How is she in the armor department compared to Atlanta?

Helena has 127mm of armor with 16mm bows if memory serves. ATlanta gets 13mm bows if i remember correctly. That means Atlanta/Flint can get lol pennrmed by 203mm AP.

If what they say now that Helena has an 8.5s reload as apposed to everyones 7.5? Helena would just be a free kill in any form of competitive play.

Its sad because Helena was the ship i was lokming forward to the most. 

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1 minute ago, Crokodone said:

Helena has 127mm of armor with 16mm bows if memory serves. ATlanta gets 13mm bows if i remember correctly. That means Atlanta/Flint can get lol pennrmed by 203mm AP.

If what they say now that Helena has an 8.5s reload as apposed to everyones 7.5? Helena would just be a free kill in any form of competitive play.

Its sad because Helena was the ship i was lokming forward to the most. 

I am sorry. I watched the video again and Helena does have a 7.5 second reload. 

 

However, Boise will have a 10-second reload. Oh my gosh.

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1 minute ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

I am sorry. I watched the video again and Helena does have a 7.5 second reload. 

 

However, Boise will have a 10-second reload. Oh my gosh.

Boise will be the first Pan-American premium ship, one of tgd CCs i think stated wg made her American for tedting purposes. And yeah, 10s reload on 13.8km guns on a ship larger than a Cleveland is unfare by every stretch of the imagination. 

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Just now, Crokodone said:

Boise will be the first Pan-American premium ship, one of tgd CCs i think stated wg made her American for tedting purposes. And yeah, 10s reload on 13.8km guns on a ship larger than a Cleveland is unfare by every stretch of the imagination. 

Yeah it's the Nuevo de Julio I'm anxious about, because of that range and the reload. I'd say even the range might be a bit less of a problem, because I've had plenty of battles in the Atlanta with AFT. However, 10-second reload on 152mm guns is unacceptable. There are CAs that fire almost as fast.

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1 hour ago, Crokodone said:

Boise will be the first Pan-American premium ship, one of tgd CCs i think stated wg made her American for tedting purposes. And yeah, 10s reload on 13.8km guns on a ship larger than a Cleveland is unfare by every stretch of the imagination. 

Cleveland is larger.

 

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by displacement maybe. the Brooklyns and Clevelands used nearly identical hulls.

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Boise / NDJ and Helena will both have 16mm of frontal armor. What increase in survivability will 16mm have over Atlanta's 13mm, if it's an increase at all? Atlanta can be penetrated from the front by any 203mm gun CA and the Graf Spee. Any BB caliber gun can penetrate her at any angle. Will Boise / NDJ and Helena be any better?

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3 hours ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

Boise / NDJ and Helena will both have 16mm of frontal armor. What increase in survivability will 16mm have over Atlanta's 13mm, if it's an increase at all? Atlanta can be penetrated from the front by any 203mm gun CA and the Graf Spee. Any BB caliber gun can penetrate her at any angle. Will Boise / NDJ and Helena be any better?

13mm is the threshold for lolpen by 203mm ap. Mostly t4-5 cruisers have this problem but Helena and Boise with their 16mm plating wont have to worry unlesd giving broadside.

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This is a really interesting discussion !  I don't play US CA/CL's.....  What I've seen over the past few weeks is that the CA/CL split, HE spam and radar have changed game play....  Look at it this way, the Atlanta and Cleveland's are four to six ships a match on one side.....  That's almost or half of the force that is now "just hiding".....  DD's are nonexistent because of radar and can't even cap anymore.  BB's are hiding at distance and for those CPT's that want to maneuver and engage, all they get is destroyed.....

I am new to this but what I'm seeing is a mess because all of the traditional roles have been tinkered with to the point there are no traditional roles.......no roles, no logic for these historic ships, no need for team work because 1/2 of your force is too afraid to do anything in the open and, what I am seeing are massacres instead or competition with skill........

It's neat that the Cruiser lines are being expanded....!!!  But, at what cost?  For WG to make higher profits and at the same time, lose players???  Case in point:  I've retired my tier 9 and 10 IJN BB's, Cruisers and DD's.......they are "non value-added" anymore because I lose money every time I take them out !!!  They are obsolete now because of the OP/meta craze.....  T8's and below are the only way to produce income and that brings up the "what's the point" of this game if there is no real value in grinding for tier 9 through 10's???    It's why I joined WoWs: to work my way to T 9-10 and achieve a 19 pt CPT....  OK, I've the tier 9-10 ships that simply can't pay the bills........  Maybe, it's because I am new and this is "normal" game behaviors that I just don't see yet???  My clan has been around for a very long time and they are just as upset: and, truthfully, only three of us are actively playing anymore:  the rest have gone on to more interesting games.....  Is this what we want?

If I were to chose:  Belfast, Minotaur and DM.  The rest are less...........value added.

Edited by Asym_KS

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4 hours ago, Asym_KS said:

OK, I've the tier 9-10 ships that simply can't pay the bills........  Maybe, it's because I am new and this is "normal" game behaviors that I just don't see yet??? 

It's pretty much a WG standard.

T8 is where average skilled free players (that aren't using camo/flags) start feeling the pinch, and you have to play well to make credits at T9 & 10. (although you won't make much)

Basically, the premise behind it is that, when you want to amass credits, you'll play T5-7, which, when combined with the "full game at all tiers" approach, keeps the mid-tier population healthy.

With T4 protection, T9 premiums, and high-tier credit camo, they've undermined this principle, which had worked well in WoT, and here previously.

There certainly is that "cash grab" element though. They know that some people prioritise progression and playing the top ships over winning, or just enjoying the gameplay, and will pay to be able to progress without having to play mid-tier ships.

But they can't take your money if you don't want what they're selling.

Edited by Skpstr

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On 6/15/2018 at 2:28 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Cleveland is fine, she has tons of tools to help the team.  However, it requires a vastly different playstyle than what she easily got away with at Tier VI.

IMO, the playstyle of the USN Cruisers, both CL & CA, are pretty similar.  There's things the other is better at than the other, but in general, they're identical.  People either understand it and love it, or they complain about them on the boards.  Think back on all the USN Cruiser threads that existed before the USN CL split started to hit.  They were all pretty abysmal.  Sure, there were even USN CAs that were widely panned like NOLA, Pensacola, but even others at high tier, even DM, weren't seen as "the ideal"... Except by the guys that knew that they're not like other Cruiser Lines.

You got a Bismarck and you know there's a lone USN CL behind that island.  The answer is obvious.  Rush in and crush the ant.  Too small guns, no torps to scare your BB.

You got a Bismarck and you know there's a lone Prinz Eugen / Adm.Hipper behind that island.  Let's not be too hasty, they got a pair of torp launchers per side...

You got a Bismarck and you know there's a lone Des Moines behind that island.  Let's not be too hasty.  She doesn't have torps but at close range, DM can do things to pound your BB with HE or worse, get to your sides and rip you apart with SHS AP shells.  She also has a 27mm bow to bounce your AP 380mm AP.

One of my proudest moments as a Hipper Captain was double killing two BBs, one with each set of torps, when they rushed my little island.  Similar hilarity was once enjoyed by giving a smoke cloud both sets of my Myoko's torps.  A cruiser without torpedoes is a sad thing indeed ;-).  

The USN ships are beautiful.  I cannot say I ever really got on well with them, even if I did log a ton of games in Cleveland at Tier VI.  I've got Chap at Tier VIII to grind if I really want the pain, and that seems more worthwhile generally.

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