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SharkFujishiro

Nagara tier 5 Japanese premium?

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How about the Nagara as a tier 5 cruiser? I know she is almost identical to Kuma, which I love, but she could have better torps and a slightly better AA rating. Now that I said my piece, I am now ready to receive the usual forum criticism . 

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Nothing much to criticize here really.

Only real problem I see is the tier 5 placement.

Tier 5 is the poor relation these days because it sees tier 7 matchmaking about 75% of the time. (my personal experience, I don't know the exact numbers)

People don't play their tier 5s much now and I don't see a market for another one.

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6 minutes ago, Prothall said:

Nothing much to criticize here really.

Only real problem I see is the tier 5 placement.

Tier 5 is the poor relation these days because it sees tier 7 matchmaking about 75% of the time. (my personal experience, I don't know the exact numbers)

People don't play their tier 5s much now and I don't see a market for another one.

Concur, unless it is similar to GC and can upriver very well, tier Vs will continue to be a very hard sell.

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37 minutes ago, Prothall said:

Nothing much to criticize here really.

Only real problem I see is the tier 5 placement.

Tier 5 is the poor relation these days because it sees tier 7 matchmaking about 75% of the time. (my personal experience, I don't know the exact numbers)

People don't play their tier 5s much now and I don't see a market for another one.

I also agree with this conclusion; this ship would have had no issues at tier 5 under the conditions you mention when tier 5 saw early game MM, but with the MM tier 5 faces today she would struggle against tier 7.

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I dunno, I think I'd save the conventional (7x 14cm + 4x2 torpedoes) Nagara/Sendai for an IJN light cruiser branch, say Kuma -> Nagara/Sendai -> Agano -> Ooyodo, and then link back into the main line at Mogami.

Now, if you said Isuzu in her CLAA form (and we'll cheat a bit and let her keep her torpedoes)... add in a Dido-class at tier 6, and that would provide CLAA premiums from tier 4 through to tier 8...

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Nagara has been brought up as a candidate for a supposed IJN CL Line Split by some of us players, here:

It's a tricky thing coming up with an IJN CL Line as the Japanese did not put too much into them compared to their far mightier CAs that were bristling with weapons.  The CLs were poorly armed except for one thing... Torpedoes.

 

Far superior Cruiser stealth and long range torpedoes need to define IJN CLs past IV Kuma.  They *must* IMO because when you look at their main battery suites, they were all abysmal.  Omaha, Murmansk, Kirov, Konigsberg would eat Nagara alive, but if Nagara could be a DD-CL Hybrid in playstyle, then I can see her place in Tier V, because guns will not be her thing fighting against other Cruisers, much less a BB.  It will be torpedoes, and the guns should be dangerous to a DD they encounter.

 

I think it can work but IJN CLs need to be catered to a style of Cruiser play that really doesn't exist ATM.

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Nagara is too weak for T5

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This has already been proposed before as Sendai(or a premium Jintsu) with Type 93 torps and near-DD-level concealment.  Though now with deepwater torps in the game, that is also an option.  If you must have a Nagara-class, then Isuzu is the go-to option with her full-AA rebuild.

 

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How about adding Smoke and Hydro to higher tiers to these CLs.  IJN CLs were really DD leaders and play like large DDs.  The Kuma was a fun boat.  I agree that their guns don't compare to other nations.  Maybe CE, Torps, Hydro and Smoke could be their niche.  They could be cap contesters and DD hunters.

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On 6/14/2018 at 9:16 PM, SharkFujishiro said:

How about the Nagara as a tier 5 cruiser? I know she is almost identical to Kuma, which I love, but she could have better torps and a slightly better AA rating. Now that I said my piece, I am now ready to receive the usual forum criticism . 

Image result for nagara cruiser

Well they can create a torpedo class cruiser line. That image looks like the commissioned model built in 1919. It was sunk in 1944 by a submarine. 

Here are the specs on that cruiser. 

Displacement:    
5,570 long tons (5,659 t) [2]
Length:    
162.1 m (532 ft)[2]
Beam:    
14.2 m (47 ft)[2]
Draft:    
4.8 m (16 ft)[2]

Speed:    
36 kn (67 km/h)[2]

Armament:    
(as built 1922) 
7 × 14 cm/50 3rd Year Type naval guns
2 × 8 cm/40 3rd Year Type naval guns
8 × 61 cm torpedo tubes (12 x Type 91 torpedoes) (2x4)[2]
(final 1940's) 
5 × 14 cm/50 3rd Year Type naval guns
2 × 8 cm/40 3rd Year Type naval guns
22 Type 96 25-mm AA guns (2 triple + 6 twin + 14 single)
10 × Type 93 13.2 mm machine guns
8 × 61 cm torpedo tubes (8 x Type 93 torpedoes) (2 quad)

Armor:    
62 mm (belt)
30 mm (deck)[2]
Aircraft carried:    1 × floatplane
Aviation facilities:    1 aircraft catapult

   

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Still not sure how this ship would face down its fellow Tier 5s much less the Tier 7s it would now see. Its tier 4 counterpart gets protected MM. As a T5 it loses that.The (short range) AA would be OK but only a 5 (or 4 - Not sure which 2 gun mounts it loses) gun 5.5" broadside? Ouch!  Every cruiser at tier 4 and above would badly outgun it. It would be able (assuming 10K torps) to comfortably stealth torp but it does not have even a bad DDs level of concealment and it has a citadel. It might be the stealthiest T5 cruiser (if WG decrees it so), but every DD would out spot it. Many DDs would out gun it. It would be the Mutsuki of the T5 cruisers.  The ship would require a gimmick to be viable (smoke, Katori type gun accuracy, super effective camo ...)

 

On the plus side, the Emerald would no longer be the worst T5 cruiser.

Edited by Sabot_100

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