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Radar_X

Premium Ship Doubloon Compensation

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Commanders!

We would like to clarify the situation with premium ship doubloon compensation, as it has been causing some confusion among our community. It’s true that for a long period of time we have been offering full doubloon compensation for most cases where a player bought a package containing a ship they already owned on that account. This included packages which were discounted. However, we’ve recently noticed that a portion of our players have been using these mechanics to purchase discounted doubloons – a procedure we had not intended, but which we had tolerated until it reached a certain scale. Experience and data has shown that we cannot keep these mechanics, as well as keep offering packages with significant discounts to our audience without detrimental impact to the game as a whole. This prompted us to request changes from our Premium Shop team, which would alter the compensation for all ships to correspond to the actual cost of the content at the time of purchase (i.e. to compensate players who intentionally bought packages containing a ship they already owned with the discounted value of that ship). Unfortunately, while we had initially planned to implement these changes at a later date, they were applied to the shop in early May, catching everyone off guard.

We sincerely apologize for having failed to inform our players about this change ahead of time. We do understand that while compensation amounts are not directly regulated, when a system behaves a certain way for a long period of time it contributes to creating habits and informing purchase decisions.

To that end, we would like to inform players that shortly after the release of update 0.7.6 we will compensate all users who purchased discounted packages and received compensation for the ships therein, with the difference in doubloon value they missed out on. This will apply to all purchases made between May 1st and the release of update 0.7.6. At the same time, together with that update, these new compensation mechanics will be formalized and fully come into force, applying to all discounted packages going forward. This change will be stated in the update notes.

To prevent further confusion and remain transparent about the value players are getting, from that moment we will also list all compensation values for Premium Shop content in all package descriptions, regardless of whether they are discounted or not. We will also update our Terms of Service to make sure they are not ambiguous about which content is compensated, when that compensation applies and which currency will be transferred to players’ accounts.

We’re committed to improving communications and transparency towards our player base, as well as maintaining a level playing field between regional communities. This yet again shows us how far we still have to go, but we sincerely hope you’ll all stay with us and guide us along the way.

The World of Warships team

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I'm guessing this had something to do with players taking advantage of the drastically discounted Steam bundles from about a month ago.  It was an incredible value, especially if you already owned the ships.

Either way, thanks for the clarification @Radar_X 

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Here's the rub: I spent the $60 on the discounted packages to get doubloons.  If the sale didn't happen, I wouldn't have spend $60 on doubloons anyway, I would have just bought nothing.

Just something to consider.

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In all honesty, if making this change, and selling "all the things all the time" are required to prevent a "detrimental impact to the game as a whole", I would be seriously reviewing the business model and looking to cut production costs, rather than try to squeeze more from customers that have been quite generous in their support already.

I don't mean to come off as harsh, but I must speak up for myself and others that have spent freely on the game - up to this point, anyway.

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Yes, the Steam packages were the first thing I'd bought in a while, simply because they seemed reasonably priced, for once. It was money I wouldn't have spent otherwise.

As opposed to $50+ (the price of a full game) for a single ship model.

At the moment, given it's not worth paying for T5-6 or 8 MM, there's very few ships worth buying.

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I got 2 of the 3 packages for US$ 40. Got 10k doubloons, which I already spent. The Steam discount was ridiculous, and a bargain not seen that often.

The shop's prices are a little higher than average, so each discount goes a long way towards allowing purchases. This change, despite being fair, would not allow to rise sales, as some of the people that buy discounted ships back on sale already have the ships and are looking to get discounted doubloons.

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Count me in with those who only buy when there are discounts.  That’s not just with this game, it’s with everything in life.  No discount, no deal, no purchase.  I happily spend money when I feel I’m getting a deal.  Yesterday I bought a TV for $2,500.  Why?  It was a good deal.  Had it not been discounted, I’d not have bought it.

I’ve got plenty to spend on this game, but it has to happen in a way that I feel good about.

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38 minutes ago, hanesco said:

I got 2 of the 3 packages for US$ 40. Got 10k doubloons, which I already spent. The Steam discount was ridiculous, and a bargain not seen that often.

The shop's prices are a little higher than average, so each discount goes a long way towards allowing purchases. This change, despite being fair, would not allow to rise sales, as some of the people that buy discounted ships back on sale already have the ships and are looking to get discounted doubloons.

Its not clear to me that this change is fair.  It appears fair on the surface but not necessarily when you consider it in more detail.  People who don't own the ship get the ship at the discounted price.  People who do own the ship, get the discounted value of the ship.   This means that people who don't have the ship get more value out of the transaction that people who do.

Consider it this way, I get a $100 TV at a 10% discount for $90.  I received $100 of value for $90 (and could turn around and sell the TV for the $100 value).  However, WG is saying that if you already own the TV, we're only going to give you $90 of value while those who don't get $100 of value.  This strikes me as deceptive.

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I can also say that while I do spend quite a bit of money on this game, my purchases always take into consideration on if it is "worth it" to me.  Should the discounts get stingy, my wallet will too.

And that steam sale was found money for you.  I wouldn't have made a purchase that month or the next if it wasn't for that sale.

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1 hour ago, Weapon_of_Proliferation said:

I spent the $60 on the discounted packages to get doubloons.  If the sale didn't happen, I wouldn't have spend $60 on doubloons anyway, I would have just bought nothing.

Radar_X. sounds like your marketing team  had a successful campaign with unintended consequences.  I also believe your marketing team has implemented a short sited solution which does not account for "demand curve" mechanics. Keep in mind WG digital products have imaginary real world value. Getting anyone to spend $60 within a temporary sale available only to a limited audience probably did more good than harm.

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I had bought a couple Steam packages as well. Only reason is because of the discount, Can't say I've bought anything from the store in a year or more otherwise. 

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4 minutes ago, skillztowin said:

Radar_X. sounds like your marketing team  had a successful campaign with unintended consequences.  I also believe your marketing team has implemented a short sited solution which does not account for "demand curve" mechanics. Keep in mind WG digital products have imaginary real world value. Getting anyone to spend $60 within a temporary sale available only to a limited audience probably did more good than harm.

The goal of these packages was for newer players on Steam and most data within the industry shows a first purchase is a strong indicator of a second.  This was a loophole that folks had available for awhile and we don't begrudge those that took advantage of it, but if we wanted to offer incredibly discounted items we wouldn't obfuscate it in this way. 

The main goal of this message is the change came without notice and that's not something we wanted.  As a result we're trying to make that right. 

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7 minutes ago, Psicopro said:

I can also say that while I do spend quite a bit of money on this game, my purchases always take into consideration on if it is "worth it" to me.  Should the discounts get stingy, my wallet will too.

And that steam sale was found money for you.  I wouldn't have made a purchase that month or the next if it wasn't for that sale.

+1

I think it'd be interesting to see how much people continue to spend. This feels like a classic penny wise, pound foolish approach to me.

I don't spend money on this game except when I feel like it's a good deal. Take a way the good deal feeling? I will stop spending.

It's not zero sum, either. WG doesn't lose money by offering bundles like that. They can offer things which get people buying things they would otherwise not have purchased.

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This looks very 'bait and switch'y in terms of the clearly stated discounts that under the current terms actually exist in that if a $50 ship is on sale for a discounted $40 (i.e. 20% off) and I buy that package even though I have that ship, I'll receive $50 worth of doubloons. If I have that ship in my port then WG already has my money for that ship (outside of the absolutely minuscule chance of winning it in a supercontainer OR it's one of the very few premiums earned from an in game campaign). Now, however, if WG offers a 20% discount on that $50 ship I ALREADY PAID FOR, I instead receive ABSOLUTELY NO DISCOUNT and only get $40 worth of doubloons.

This absolutely murders whale packages like the Armada deal where WG is going for your big chunk of change and understandably made the offer really tempting in paying $500/$600 for all the ships or their full doubloon equivalent. But if you already have all the ships, you're either so lucky you can actually make a living off of buying winning lottery tickets OR you already  paid WG another $500/$600 for the ships beforehand. Now what do you get with the bundle? You get the ships to fill in your collection at 'half off', but then you get completely undiscounted doubloons so the supposed 50% discount is actually less than 50%, and if you already had all the ships in the bundle your $500 / $600 is no different from buying $500 / $600 of 'any doubloons' WITHOUT ANY DISCOUNT AT ALL.

You've just gone full Captain Ahab here WG. And FWIW I plowed the doubloons I got from the Steam Sale (and then some) into Space Camos for ships I already had the Permaflages for.

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16 hours ago, Radar_X said:

The goal of these packages was for newer players on Steam and most data within the industry shows a first purchase is a strong indicator of a second.  This was a loophole that folks had available for awhile and we don't begrudge those that took advantage of it, but if we wanted to offer incredibly discounted items we wouldn't obfuscate it in this way. 

The main goal of this message is the change came without notice and that's not something we wanted.  As a result we're trying to make that right. 

That's good, because a lot of us were wondering what was going on. What you have done works for me.

The Steam bundles were glorious, and brought me back to spending a little money after months without spending a cent. I think many other people felt the same. They were enormously popular. You should actually consider doing something like that again. Everyone benefited. 

Another thing you might consider is half price sales or random awards that give 50% off coupons for ships for missions, for weekend challenges, etc. A 50% off coupon for completing a mission would bring in more cash for you guys and limit the sale to a single ship at the time of the player's choosing -- and the player could choose the ship, instead of having to accept the one from the mission (I don't really want Indianapolis and am not completing the mission for it). I'd like to buy Makarov and Huang He for operations, and Ashitaka because I like BBs. But the current prices are about twice what I am willing to pay. 



 

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21 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

The goal of these packages was for newer players on Steam and most data within the industry shows a first purchase is a strong indicator of a second.  This was a loophole that folks had available for awhile and we don't begrudge those that took advantage of it, but if we wanted to offer incredibly discounted items we wouldn't obfuscate it in this way. 

The main goal of this message is the change came without notice and that's not something we wanted.  As a result we're trying to make that right. 

I'm glad you're trying to rectify the problem of announcing this change without notice.  The main problem, @Radar_X is that the change is bad.  Right now, if I go to the premium shop, it says I can get the Duca D'Aosta Ultimate: Boosted for a 25% discount, reducing the original price of $48.25 to $36.16.  I expect, thus, that if I purchase this bundle, I get $48.25 worth of stuff, based clearly on your advertisement.  However, because I already have the ship, you're saying that you're going to give me less than $48.25 worth of stuff, even though the bundle says I should get $48.25 worth of stuff.  This strikes me as, at best, deceptive.  

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52 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

That's good, because a lot of us were wondering what was going on. What you have done works for me.

The Steam bundles were glorious, and brought me back to spending a little money after months without spending a cent. I think many other people felt the same. They were enormously popular. You should actually consider doing something like that again. Everyone benefited. 

Another thing you might consider is half price sales or random awards that give 50% off coupons for ships for missions, for weekend challenges, etc. A 50% off coupon for completing a mission would bring in more cash for you guys and limit the sale to a single ship at the time of the player's choosing -- and the player could choose the ship, instead of having to accept the one from the mission (I don't really want Indianapolis and am not completing the mission for it). I'd like to buy Makarov and Huang He for operations, and Ashitaka because I like BBs. But the current prices are about twice what I am willing to pay. 

Agreed on the first two points for sure.  WG got a significant amount of revenue that it may have not seen if these bundles were not made available.

As for the last point, I haven't seen a personal offer in at least 6 months.  @Radar_X are coupons even still an active thing?

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As someone who did take advantage of the sale, and also took advantage of WG, you see, I got full value of a ship that I had got for free. So basically, I paid $12 for a ton of gold plus the other items. I think that this is what they are trying to stop. 

 

I also bought all the other steam boats, and I always check to see what's on sale, and to be honest, I only bought the boat I had because of a post here explaining the gold that was going to come my way. 

Something WG should understand, I wouldn't have spent that $12 on something else, it was the sale that made me spend it. No sale, no buy. 

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1 minute ago, Capt_h2o said:

Something WG should understand, I wouldn't have spent that $12 on something else, it was the sale that made me spend it. No sale, no buy. 

To reiterate however we do understand, but these bundles weren't designed with veterans in mind.  They were to provide value to newer players and bring them in to World of Warships.  We will always have opportunities for sales if that's what you want to take advantage of, you just aren't going to get fire sale values anymore. 

 

22 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Agreed on the first two points for sure.  WG got a significant amount of revenue that it may have not seen if these bundles were not made available.

As for the last point, I haven't seen a personal offer in at least 6 months.  @Radar_X are coupons even still an active thing?

I'll need to ask about that. 

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@Radar_X to clarify, I am a newer player, and I like buying boats, and I hope the great sales still happen. I also don't understand the compansation anyways, i would have just not bought the boat I had already. 

 

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2 hours ago, Radar_X said:

The goal of these packages was for newer players on Steam and most data within the industry shows a first purchase is a strong indicator of a second.  This was a loophole that folks had available for awhile and we don't begrudge those that took advantage of it, but if we wanted to offer incredibly discounted items we wouldn't obfuscate it in this way. 

The main goal of this message is the change came without notice and that's not something we wanted.  As a result we're trying to make that right. 

Oh well. Doing this change without notice is a mistake of course. So I understand why are you refunding the difference. 

Talking about the change, I mentioned it was fair, but that happened just because the discount was that nice. Normally it would be restricted to only novice players or first-timers in the premium shop. That would be ideal. But if you released the Steam pack for everyone, then someone in the marketing department had to be aware of the potential of veterans adquiring doubloons at 66% discount.

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37 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

To reiterate however we do understand, but these bundles weren't designed with veterans in mind.  They were to provide value to newer players and bring them in to World of Warships.  We will always have opportunities for sales if that's what you want to take advantage of, you just aren't going to get fire sale values anymore. 

 

I'll need to ask about that. 

Again, I understand the reasoning.  If you want to provide more value to newer players, make the offers exclusive to them.  By changing the compensation, you've changed the value proposition for anyone who the offer is available to.  That is, anyone who purchases the ship that already has the ship is getting less value than anyone who does not (and less than the advertised value).  This is just bad business practice as it separates purchasers into two categories.  It's deceptive because the advertisement specifies a value that the purchaser is not getting.

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21 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

To reiterate however we do understand, but these bundles weren't designed with veterans in mind.  They were to provide value to newer players and bring them in to World of Warships.  We will always have opportunities for sales if that's what you want to take advantage of, you just aren't going to get fire sale values anymore. 

If you're not going to offer 'fire sales' then don't offer them since you have ways to restrict offers to 1 per account and/or new accounts, don't change the ship discount doubloon policy to something that treads the line on shadiness (and I think I'm being generous in that assessment) in having a big red -20% (or whatever) tag in the corner of a ship bundle and then if someone who has the ship already 'falls for it' they get an amount of doubloons with no discount and would have been better served spending their money on a different product.

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I suppose the Santa crates are the next to go, eh?  I’ve enjoyed the game, will continue to play, but perhaps I’ve spent enough.

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This loophole is the equivalent of buying a 100$ TV for 50$, then getting a 100$ cash voucher because you already have the TV. You then go ahead and buy 100$ worth of other goods - essentially WG ends up giving you a discount on anything purchasable for doubloons as opposed to the specific item that was discounted. 

It is likely that the level of discount is high enough to significantly impact WG's profit margin, especially since these bundles aimed at "new" players are often loss-leaders or offered at near break-even in order to encourage future, more profitable purchases. In this case, the "demand curve" will result in less income due to these discounts being purchased by a wider population. 

WG changing the refund policy to close this loophole is perfectly fine, especially since they are giving advance warning and "re-opening" the loophole for anyone who was inadvertently affected by a sudden change. It may be annoying to not be able to get cheap doubloons, but if WG is losing money on these discounts (or only making a small profit) you can't blame them for changing their system. 

 

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