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Hassan_T

Add the Lexington to Sakura Bloom/Cherry Blossom

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This operation is waaaay to damn hard. Tried 9 times with our clan. And this is while we are all in a 7 player division. The last stage is waaay too hard. Its near impossible if your not aa speced or if your in a chapyev. Because the tropedo bombers just keep coming and coming and coming. Literally every 5 seconds another torpedo bomber dropped. WG should add the ability to play as a lexington. The 2 AI lexingtons did literally nothing to stop the air attack on our division. All 9 times on the last stage while coming under intense air attack. Adding a player carrier would help because then you could actually defend against the air attack and would also be a great resource to the team as well

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It is if you totally lack map/situation awareness. It is not an operation you just sit back sipping your pina colada drink, take a nap and expect to get a participation trophy at the end just by farming ships alone. You need to work together as teamwork is vital here to get through the waves as smoothy as possible. That means communicate with your clan mates to focus fire key ships, and any ship that gets close to you so the reinforcements don't overwhelm you in time.

 

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1 minute ago, Termx said:

It is if you totally lack map/situation awareness. It is not an operation you just sit back sipping your pina colada drink, take a nap and expect to get a participation trophy at the end just by farming ships alone. You need to work together as teamwork is vital here to get through the waves as smoothy as possible. That means communicate with your clan mates to focus fire key ships, and any ship that gets close to you so the reinforcements don't overwhelm you in time.

 

Please reread the post. Our clan was playing a DIVISION. Which means we were. Whats the point of a clan division if we weren't. After attempting to get close enough to the aerodome all 9 times we failed because of the planes. But hey lets assume that we are the ones at fault and proudly post it here

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2 minutes ago, Hassan_T said:

Please reread the post. Our clan was playing a DIVISION. Which means we were. Whats the point of a clan division if we weren't. After attempting to get close enough to the aerodome all 9 times we failed because of the planes. But hey lets assume that we are the ones at fault and proudly post it here

I'm aware of that Hassan, but what I'd said still applies.

Did you guys using your radar to flush those destroyers firing in smoke?

For those with Hydro, did you use it to help spot torpedoes when the waves of destroyers showed up?

Did you guys have proper captain skills for your ship captains, like AA builds with BFT-AFT or manual AA?

Did you use the Defensive AA consumable (and coordinate cooldowns with each other) to help chew through the aircraft waves, and reduce their accuracy?

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Adding a CV isn't a bad idea, but imo allowing T8 Allied BBs would go a long way in making this operation more playable for people that random que. BB does 2 things really well in this Operation: Snipe the Myoko shelling the Marine base from 15-17km+(Cleveland/Baltimore is rather bad at this because the long range and low shell alpha, only Martel is half decent at it with its fast speed to close the range) and Bombard the Airfield from the CV repair circle.

Also Secondary focused allied BBs such as Gascogne and Massachusetts would do really well in the night fighting, their secondary demolish cruiser/dds and their fast acting heal can help them soak up a lot of damage yet still survive.  The player win because they get more options, and WG wins because they give player more incentive to buy these new T8 Prem BBs.

8 hours ago, Termx said:

e. You need to work together as teamwork is vital here to get through the waves as smoothy as possible

Sounds good in theory, then you realize in game there is no way to tell for sure if a teammate have Hydro or Radar or DFAA on or not, because WG banned the 1 Mod that tells you this exactly. Type communication in the fast paced fighting is almost impossible as all light cruisers would be firing every 6-8s, and when you random que(and the vast majority of Operation players random que judging by how slow it is to form a division in the chat channel these days) you can expect half of your teammate to not understand your language and another half to not listen to what you have to say.   Even your average random battle teamwork is insufficient to 5 star this operation, and consider the quality of player is lower in Operation than in Random battle and that makes it even worse.

Edited by 400lbHacker_TheCybers

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17 hours ago, Termx said:

I'm aware of that Hassan, but what I'd said still applies.

Did you guys using your radar to flush those destroyers firing in smoke?

For those with Hydro, did you use it to help spot torpedoes when the waves of destroyers showed up?

Did you guys have proper captain skills for your ship captains, like AA builds with BFT-AFT or manual AA?

Did you use the Defensive AA consumable (and coordinate cooldowns with each other) to help chew through the aircraft waves, and reduce their accuracy?

We were in a 7 player clan division so we were able to coordinate our ships. We had 3 chapeyev ms for radar and hydro. We had 3 aa specced clevelands and an edinburgh. We coordinated our radar but by stage 3 we had all run out of radar. Mind you this is with superintendent and premium. We had all the chapayevs save hydro for stage 3 but honestly there eas no point because they all died from continous torp bombing before they could even get close. All of our ships were AA specced. We tried sticking together and coordinating DFAA but that ended up being an awful idea because you couldnt turn without running into someone else or torps. It also negated the effect of dfaa because even while panicked the torps would still hit us since we were so close together. We tried spreading out but got focused down 1 at a time. There needs to be a nerf to the amount of planes that attack you during stage 3. We need a player carrier to provide air cover for the team.

Edited by Hassan_T

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I don`t think you will ever be able to play a CV in this OP.  because a CV could just bomb the base unless they add AA forts.

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I'm in agreement about the difficulty as the current Incarnation was 2 days ago.
It is OK, if you can select "Normal" or "Hard" difficulty, and WG sets this as "Hard".

But for Normal, way too many focused Torps and ships popping up out of nowhere.
I do not agree to add other ship types.
And they are not going to, just look at how they designed the scenario lol.  Its not made for other types of ships.

WG is very close to having this as a great "normal difficulty" T8 scenario.
It just needs to adjust (reduce) the enemy ship and plane spawn rate I think... turn it down about 30% or 40% at the end.

I have won this with random people in the Test Server in its current incarnation (of 12 June).

To have a good shot at a win:
-  Players need to NOT die or sacrifice themselves in the first half!!
-  There is no need to die in first half, but if you lose 3+ ships before the 2 Carriers come, you won't be winning that match.
-  You really need to have about 3 ships surviving at the end (last 5 minutes) to have random players with a decent chance of winning
-  Encourage your team to target enemy ships properly
-  Use the island in the middle of bay for a shield while targeting Airfields
-  Use HE on the Airfields
-  Target the proper places on the Airfields to kill them QUICK when in range
-  When you are in position to kill the Airfields, DO IT and stop messing with ships!!  (random players can really foul this part up)
-  Make sure your teammates know that You win when both airfields are dead, not when "all enemy ships are dead". 
-  Watch the clock -- It is possible to lose this scenario by time running out
-  You cannot win this scenario by hanging back and certainly not by staying the the heal circle.

:)

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3 minutes ago, LeDeath said:

To have a good shot at a win:
-  Players need to NOT die or sacrifice themselves in the first half!!
-  There is no need to die in first half, but if you lose 3+ ships before the 2 Carriers come, you won't be winning that match.
-  You really need to have about 3 ships surviving at the end (last 5 minutes) to have random players with a decent chance of winning
-  Encourage your team to target enemy ships properly
-  Use the island in the middle of bay for a shield while targeting Airfields
-  Use HE on the Airfields
-  Target the proper places on the Airfields to kill them QUICK when in range
-  When you are in position to kill the Airfields, DO IT and stop messing with ships!!  (random players can really foul this part up)
-  Make sure your teammates know that You win when both airfields are dead, not when "all enemy ships are dead". 
-  Watch the clock -- It is possible to lose this scenario by time running out
-  You cannot win this scenario by hanging back and certainly not by staying the the heal circle.

Thank you for those tips!!
And I will try and help on chat to encourage players ahad of time early in the match.
That Island tip I will try, I think you are saying it will shield you from some direct fire and maybe even torpedo fire but be able to shell the airports?
What about Edinbug, no HE on it, will AP shells still hurt airport?
Maybe if not, Edin can just smoke and shot ships?

THANK YOU for taking time for this!
:-)
:)

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12 hours ago, 400lbHacker_TheCybers said:

Sounds good in theory, then you realize in game there is no way to tell for sure if a teammate have Hydro or Radar or DFAA on or not, because WG banned the 1 Mod that tells you this exactly. Type communication in the fast paced fighting is almost impossible as all light cruisers would be firing every 6-8s, and when you random que(and the vast majority of Operation players random que judging by how slow it is to form a division in the chat channel these days) you can expect half of your teammate to not understand your language and another half to not listen to what you have to say.   Even your average random battle teamwork is insufficient to 5 star this operation, and consider the quality of player is lower in Operation than in Random battle and that makes it even worse.

It's easier with a division on a voice communication program (Discord/Teamspeak), but when playing solo you just have to do the best you can working with various random players. There's no easy way to work around it. :Smile_ohmy:

4 hours ago, Hassan_T said:

We were in a 7 player clan division so we were able to coordinate our ships. We had 3 chapeyev ms for radar and hydro. We had 3 aa specced clevelands and an edinburgh. We coordinated our radar but by stage 3 we had all run out of radar. Mind you this is with superintendent and premium. We had all the chapayevs save hydro for stage 3 but honestly there eas no point because they all died from continous torp bombing before they could even get close. All of our ships were AA specced. We tried sticking together and coordinating DFAA but that ended up being an awful idea because you couldnt turn without running into someone else or torps. It also negated the effect of dfaa because even while panicked the torps would still hit us since we were so close together. We tried spreading out but got focused down 1 at a time. There needs to be a nerf to the amount of planes that attack you during stage 3. We need a player carrier to provide air cover for the team.

Putting in other ship classes is not going to solve the problem to make this operation any easier. The ship is just a tool; it still depends on the captain to drive it and use it to its full strength. But anyway, it's hard to tell what went wrong - was it captain error? A replay file will be needed to fully analyze the battle outcome.

But what you've said in your lineup:

Chapeyev - Yes she has hydro and excellent 11.7 km Russian radar, but the Chapy has a 890 meter turning radius. So she is sluggish on the turns and your putting her into an environment that requires heavy "torpedo beats" cross drops - her weakness. Having one on your team should be good enough, but she should be behind others as just a support ship (not ahead of the group as a spearhead) to avoid being focus fired by the A.I., since she lacks A-S-W-D key hacking capabilities to dodge torps and incoming shells at close range. Like all Russian cruisers, she shines at medium-long range engagements.

Mikhail Kutuzov - If any of your clan mates has her, consider taking one along with someone that's comfortable playing her. Her AA firepower is deadly and she has a Defense AA consumable. Her Russian rail gun accuracy is what makes her shine, a maximum of 19.1 km range. From the location of the carriers doing the repair, you'll be very close to rain HE shells on both airfields from that safe distance. So consider her insurance in-case killing the reinforcements is going south.

Cleveland is good, but don't forget to take a mix of the Baltimore as well. Sure the Cleveland has better DPM due to her reload, but the Baltimore packs a bigger punch with her 203mm guns. Both ships are great as AA spec, because it's USN anti-air guns of freedom yo. :Smile_playing:

Edinburgh - One should be ok enough as optional, but having a team full of them is questionable. The RN cruiser line is known to have cruisers that have toilet paper armor and limited as island huggers, easy to receive massive citadel damage when focused fired - making them a situational type of ship(s).

Also keep in mind that the bots will focus fire key ships in your team and anyone that is low on HP, because they're programed like that. You also don't want to show your broadside, because the bots are also programmed to switch to AP shells and punish you for making that potato mistake. So be sure to angle yourself and bow tank a bit if need be. You don't need to get all your guns to bare if that requires exposing yourself.

 

1 hour ago, _Texas said:

Thank you for those tips!!
And I will try and help on chat to encourage players ahad of time early in the match.
That Island tip I will try, I think you are saying it will shield you from some direct fire and maybe even torpedo fire but be able to shell the airports?
What about Edinbug, no HE on it, will AP shells still hurt airport?
Maybe if not, Edin can just smoke and shot ships?

THANK YOU for taking time for this!
:-)
:)

It will be minor damage compared to HE shells when using the Edinburgh, so that's why she is an optional ship. A full team of them is going to be "MEH" results. But for sniping from the island or at the carrier repair circle, the "Mikhail Kutuzov" will be the Queen in that category. :cap_rambo:

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7 hours ago, Termx said:

It's easier with a division on a voice communication program (Discord/Teamspeak), but when playing solo you just have to do the best you can working with various random players. There's no easy way to work around it. 

There could be more information on what the teammates are doing, UI displaying teammate consumable usage/cooldown info would be a good start.  Also a Operation that is difficult with random player que is not a good Operation, look at Ultimate Frontier right now: a freaking struggle to even get 3 star with random team especially during off-peak hours, this thing will be similar or worse.

7 hours ago, Termx said:

A full team of them is going to be "MEH" results

In my experience AP does NO DAMAGE to the airfield and if Edinburgh is the only ship you have left on the team you autolose. Where did you shoot with Edinburgh AP and at what range did you manage to damage the Airfield?

Edited by 400lbHacker_TheCybers

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