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Does all this increased Radar in matches require updated maps? Or just DD speed stat realignment?

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It's not often we see WGing update the maps, but with Cleveland now at Tier 8, do the maps need to be updated to reflect the heavy deployment of Radar in every MM Random Battle?

I'm asking, because while I've adapted to how much Radar is in the games I'm playing; I've noticed that all this radar is not just forcing DD players to change their tactics, it seems to even go so far as chilling the DD role because less experienced players aren't playing their class roles as intended (?).

If I'm even partially on point, wouldn't the sprinkling of atolls and DD specific cover that can be used against successive waves of radar consumable usage, while still being able to spot and advance?

I really don't know, in my head this seems also like a bad idea and a crutch for DDs to not learn to play their ships in spite of increased Radar in matches; but if not a change in maps, would it be wrong to give a 2-3 knot boost to DDs across the board save Soviet DD's?

Would love to hear thoughts on this.

 

Regards,

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Depends on what happens when all the hoopla settles down in a couple of weeks and people go back to playing their preferred ships.

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I like the idea of tweaking the maps. Making them bigger for high tier play would be a welcome change. 

Edit: making the caps a bunch smaller would be cool, too.

Edited by legozer
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15 minutes ago, legozer said:

I like the idea of tweaking the maps. Making them bigger for high tier play would be a welcome change. 

Edit: making the caps a bunch smaller would be cool, too.

This combined with enlarging the Cap circles would force CA's to do more than find a near by island to park behind and then use firing arcs and radar to help their allied DD take a cap with a low risk outcome. Just scale all of it for T8 - T10, and bump everyone's speed accordingly (?).

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23 minutes ago, KSN said:

It's not often we see WGing update the maps, but with Cleveland now at Tier 8, do the maps need to be updated to reflect the heavy deployment of Radar in every MM Random Battle?

What heavy deployment of radar?  And how does T8 Cleveland come into it?

The increase in number of radar-capable ships does not equate to an increase in the number of players using radar-capable ships in battle.  I had one, now I have two.  I can still play only one at a time.

 

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Just now, iDuckman said:

What heavy deployment of radar?  And how does T8 Cleveland come into it?

The increase in number of radar-capable ships does not equate to an increase in the number of players using radar-capable ships in battle.  I had one, now I have two.  I can still play only one at a time.

 

MM is que'ing 3-5 Radar capable ships per side very often now, many times consecutively match after match.

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As has been said elsewhere, it's the Tirpitzocalypse all over again.  New shiny ships that new owners want to play so six Tirpitz per side per match.  This one is already fading, and the new CL ships won't have radar - until someone unlocks a Seattle.   Until then 

2fc.png

 

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46 minutes ago, KSN said:

It's not often we see WGing update the maps, but with Cleveland now at Tier 8, do the maps need to be updated to reflect the heavy deployment of Radar in every MM Random Battle?

I'm asking, because while I've adapted to how much Radar is in the games I'm playing; I've noticed that all this radar is not just forcing DD players to change their tactics, it seems to even go so far as chilling the DD role because less experienced players aren't playing their class roles as intended (?).

If I'm even partially on point, wouldn't the sprinkling of atolls and DD specific cover that can be used against successive waves of radar consumable usage, while still being able to spot and advance?

I really don't know, in my head this seems also like a bad idea and a crutch for DDs to not learn to play their ships in spite of increased Radar in matches; but if not a change in maps, would it be wrong to give a 2-3 knot boost to DDs across the board save Soviet DD's?

1. Basic principle: dont suggest buffs to Russian ships because the developers will listen.

2. Russian DDs already laugh at radar.

3. You have already noticed that radar has reduced the DD population and is filtering out players who cant play against it. Its unlikely things will ever be as bad as with CVs, but it is easy to see how flooding the game with radar will reduce the ability and desire of fledgling DD drivers to continue learning their ships, thus leaving DD play to a small core of experienced players.

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12 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

As has been said elsewhere, it's the Tirpitzocalypse all over again.  New shiny ships that new owners want to play so six Tirpitz per side per match.  This one is already fading, and the new CL ships won't have radar -until someone  unlocks a Seattle.   Until then 

2fc.png

 

With all the Clevelands in battle I am sure as soon as the new update is released this will happen.

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21 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

<Hee hee hee>

I heard that same laugh coming from under a bridge once....

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Just need to adapt . I give up smoke on DD it only to ask to be radared now I play with torpedo booster . 

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Before the split all American cruisers from tier 8 onwards have radar.

After the split all American cruisers from tier 8 onwards have radar.

So er... what's the difference? :Smile_teethhappy:

The issue is that this patch and the next, especially on the NA server (MURICA!), everyone is testing out or grinding US cruisers.The USN radar meta hasn't shifted, it's just that for the moment there is a glut of US radar cruisers in the queue. A glut of [insert new line ships here] always happens. Give it a couple of months for people to finish the grind, get bored, or get distracted by the next shiny thing. It'll go back to normal eventually.

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I think more DD friendly maps would be welcomed.  Balancing these maps so DDs can play the objectives and yet not be able to easily run amuck, that would be the challenge.

46 minutes ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

So er... what's the difference?

The difference is there are more radar cruisers to choose from so there is a higher probability that a radar ship will be chosen by the cruiser players.  After things stabilize, the most likely outcome will be a net increase in radar ships per match.  How much of an increase will be anyone's guess. 

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I think more DD friendly maps would be welcomed.

From what I've read here in this forum is radar has made DD's cannon fodder, only removing radar will change that. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with that claim only repeating the opinions some have voiced.

Quote

Balancing these maps so DDs can play the objectives and yet not be able to easily run amuck, that would be the challenge.

That would be a monumental challenge. Balancing the ships is a huge task in itself.

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How would one balance a map in favor of DDs?  Make them submarines?

 

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2 hours ago, legozer said:

I heard that same laugh coming from under a bridge once....

Pardon me. 

<hon hon hon>

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12 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Pardon me. 

<hon hon hon>

:Smile_teethhappy:

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18 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

How would one balance a map in favor of DDs?  Make them submarines?

 

Isn't everyone already arguing that radar is already making them submarines?

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Hey, so long as I'm able to breathe between sips, I know I'm not a submarine. 

 

Sorry about the Golden Knights, btw.  It looked like they were blessed,  You didn't bet them to place, did you?

May attack the '94 DeLoach soon.  You're probably right.  His other wines didn't live as long as I'd hoped...

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

The difference is there are more radar cruisers to choose from so there is a higher probability that a radar ship will be chosen by the cruiser players.  After things stabilize, the most likely outcome will be a net increase in radar ships per match.  How much of an increase will be anyone's guess. 

Even if there is a net increase, imho it would likely only be temporary until the pool of available cruisers is further diluted by more additions, like for example by adding Italian cruisers or a British CA line.

It is too early to judge when the dust isn't anywhere close to settling. We'll need to wait a couple of months past the USN CL release to get a clearer long term picture.

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18 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

That would be a monumental challenge. Balancing the ships is a huge task in itself.

There could be simple changes such as enlarge the caps so DDs can dip in the edge of a cap with less exposure to radar.  If maps were made more DDs friendly, more atolls that don't offer cover but could block toprs, could be added to all maps to help keep torps in check.

Just now, Super_Dreadnought said:

Even if there is a net increase, imho it would likely only be temporary until the pool of available cruisers is further diluted by more additions, like for example by adding Italian cruisers or a British CA line.

You asked what the difference was.  Besides it very hard to define temporary when we have no idea when more cruisers will be added (or more radar ships for that matter).

Just now, Super_Dreadnought said:

It is too early to judge when the dust isn't anywhere close to settling. We'll need to wait a couple of months past the USN CL release to get a clearer long term picture.

I agree, its too early to draw any meaningful conclusions.  Its going to be a long few months for DDs until things settle down.

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As others I think have said, it will be cruisermageddon for a while and a total radar fest but it will wear off. I think pretty quickly, because I think the new CL's will have a rather high skill floor. They can be rushed easier than some others because they dont have torps, they cant hide in smoke that they provide for themselves and seem to be pretty situational and they look to be quite squishy. That said, a good Atlanta driver is going to have a field day in these things. For a while at least. After the new wears off and the wheat gets separated from the chaff, I think their numbers will go down

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The abundance of Radar right now is only a fad.  People are trying out the new USN Cruisers.  Every ship split, new ship line it's like this.  It'll go back to it's norm after a while.

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21 hours ago, Super_Dreadnought said:

Before the split all American cruisers from tier 8 onwards have radar.

After the split all American cruisers from tier 8 onwards have radar.

So er... what's the difference? :Smile_teethhappy:

The issue is that this patch and the next, especially on the NA server (MURICA!), everyone is testing out or grinding US cruisers.The USN radar meta hasn't shifted, it's just that for the moment there is a glut of US radar cruisers in the queue. A glut of [insert new line ships here] always happens. Give it a couple of months for people to finish the grind, get bored, or get distracted by the next shiny thing. It'll go back to normal eventually.

Because the Cleveland is a ship everyone owned before split... T8 and higher no so much. That was my only consideration when pointing that out.

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