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Frumbis

Simple CV Balance - More Selective Matchmaking?

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I'm pretty new at this game, but I've been playing my way through the CV lines (mostly 'cause I suck at aiming artillery) and I've been loving them. I played IJN only up to the Zuiho, then switched to USN and am working on getting my ranger some time this week. 

It took about 5 games in a CV to discover that CV balance is a HUGE issue in this game. In the Bogue, I could easily take out all the enemies planes and then proceed to rack up 90k+ damage with ease against the poor-AA battleships in the bogue's tier. This may be a little IMBA, considering how new I am to this game.

Just one tier later in the Independence, everything is completely different. there are Clevelands EVERYWHERE. My tier 6 planes cannot compete with the absolutely melting AA fire that tier 8 cruisers and even battleships put out. If I dare make a torp bomb run at even a battleship (even one going solo at the edge of the map), Ill be lucky if 4 out of 6 bombers survive to drop, and luckier still if 3 bombers make it back to my carrier. I can't replace those planes with the Indy's tiny hangar. Now I'm lucky if I can get 20k damage in a game.

I note that I'm not the only one with this problem. I don't even have to use my fighters for air defense anymore in most games. I can never even get to his planes before most of them are shot down by my allies' CA's and BB's. Sure, I can use my planes to scout, and I do, but that only goes so far. I'm pretty sure I would have much more overall impact on the game if I just picked a different class of ship.

To get to the point--I feel like this situation could be avoided or improved with only a simple change--don't let a tier 6 CV get matched with tier 8 ships of other classes. 

I don't know because I haven't got far enough to play one, but I can't help feeling that I would fare so much better against tier 8 cruiser AA if I were facing it with tier 8 planes in a tier 8 carrier with a larger hangar. Could CVs get more selective matchmaking?

Opinions?

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It's normally not that bad until you hit tier 8 CV but with the new US cruiser line split a lot of people are using the new cruisers and working there way up the tiers, the problem with that as you have found is it brings a lot off AA to the match.

When you get put in a high tier match use your planes to scout ahead but keep them out of AA as much as you can let your team deal some damage and  knock out some AA, then send your planes in to start doing damage and to finish ships off.

Normally you might get a few ships you have to avoid because off AA but with the cruiser split it's made it a lot worse, but try that and see if it helps at all and keep a eye out for Defensive AA Fire.

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2 hours ago, Frumbis said:

I'm pretty new at this game, but I've been playing my way through the CV lines (mostly 'cause I suck at aiming artillery) and I've been loving them. I played IJN only up to the Zuiho, then switched to USN and am working on getting my ranger some time this week. 

It took about 5 games in a CV to discover that CV balance is a HUGE issue in this game. In the Bogue, I could easily take out all the enemies planes and then proceed to rack up 90k+ damage with ease against the poor-AA battleships in the bogue's tier. This may be a little IMBA, considering how new I am to this game.

Just one tier later in the Independence, everything is completely different. there are Clevelands EVERYWHERE. My tier 6 planes cannot compete with the absolutely melting AA fire that tier 8 cruisers and even battleships put out. If I dare make a torp bomb run at even a battleship (even one going solo at the edge of the map), Ill be lucky if 4 out of 6 bombers survive to drop, and luckier still if 3 bombers make it back to my carrier. I can't replace those planes with the Indy's tiny hangar. Now I'm lucky if I can get 20k damage in a game.

I note that I'm not the only one with this problem. I don't even have to use my fighters for air defense anymore in most games. I can never even get to his planes before most of them are shot down by my allies' CA's and BB's. Sure, I can use my planes to scout, and I do, but that only goes so far. I'm pretty sure I would have much more overall impact on the game if I just picked a different class of ship.

To get to the point--I feel like this situation could be avoided or improved with only a simple change--don't let a tier 6 CV get matched with tier 8 ships of other classes. 

I don't know because I haven't got far enough to play one, but I can't help feeling that I would fare so much better against tier 8 cruiser AA if I were facing it with tier 8 planes in a tier 8 carrier with a larger hangar. Could CVs get more selective matchmaking?

Opinions?

1st of all...Welcome to the forums.

2 unfortunate things...1st...MM will not be getting changed.

& 2nd...

1 hour ago, ausanimal said:

with the new US cruiser line split a lot of people are using the new cruisers

W/only 159 battles you are still in protected match making (MM) & most of your opponents are not human but bots (if they have colons (:) around their names they are bots...although you may get other humans in matches w/you that have also not reached the required # of games to enter regular MM (I believe it is 1000 games but I am not sure).

So the bad news is you have only been taking on bots for the most part...& when you leave protected MM you will have a much tougher time against humans...

But the good news is that you just did the most beneficial thing you could possibly have done to get advice...you posted in the forums.

Soon all sorts of links will be posted to direct you to the best CV mains in the game (Femenennely comes to mind 1st as she is the most popular by far but I unfortunately am no good at posting links...but the rest of the community will be sure to help you out w/that I am sure) w/replays to show you how to use the 2 new abilities you have just acquired by reaching T6 in CVs...manual drops & manual strafing (I'm not a CV main so the best I can do is to inform you that they require the ALT key to use properly if you wish to go it alone...not advisable though).

Again...unfortunately the MM will not be changing but when you get humans on your teams eventually they will be able to help by shooting some of that AA off of those opposing ships to make it easier to get in for the attacks.

I don't have much CV experience to give advice on the subject but from being on the forums I have learned that learning those 2 skills is of the utmost importance if you plan on being a CV main.

 

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1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

W/only 159 battles you are still in protected match making (MM) & most of your opponents are not human but bots (if they have colons (:) around their names they are bots...although you may get other humans in matches w/you that have also not reached the required # of games to enter regular MM (I believe it is 1000 games but I am not sure).

So the bad news is you have only been taking on bots for the most part...& when you leave protected MM you will have a much tougher time against humans...

 

He can't be in the protected matches if he is playing the Independence.

3 hours ago, Frumbis said:

Just one tier later in the Independence, everything is completely different. there are Clevelands EVERYWHERE. My tier 6 planes cannot compete with the absolutely melting AA fire that tier 8 cruisers and even battleships put out.

 

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5 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

W/only 159 battles you are still in protected match making (MM) & most of your opponents are not human but bots (if they have colons (:) around their names they are bots...although you may get other humans in matches w/you that have also not reached the required # of games to enter regular MM (I believe it is 1000 games but I am not sure).

So the bad news is you have only been taking on bots for the most part...& when you leave protected MM you will have a much tougher time against humans...

Yeah I'm for sure not in protected MM, and haven't been for a long while. I was aware of the shift from protected MM when it happened (random battle goes from 1 min queue saying empty positions filled by bots to 5 min queue, no bots). I think pretty much as soon as I got in a CV it took me out of bot matchmaking, or maybe it was when i got in a Zuiho.

 Bots tend not to get salty and rage in chat.

Also no colons around anybody's name.

5 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Soon all sorts of links will be posted to direct you to the best CV mains in the game (Femenennely comes to mind 1st as she is the most popular by far but I unfortunately am no good at posting links...but the rest of the community will be sure to help you out w/that I am sure) w/replays to show you how to use the 2 new abilities you have just acquired by reaching T6 in CVs...manual drops & manual strafing (I'm not a CV main so the best I can do is to inform you that they require the ALT key to use properly if you wish to go it alone...not advisable though).

I'm also aware of being able to do manual drops and strafing, it was one of the things I looked forward to most about hitting t6. I'm not particularly good at them yet, but they don't seem to solve the particular problem at hand either. When you manual drop torpedoes against a high tier ship you can try to drop farther away to avoid AA damage, but then you will just end up getting dodged unless the opponent is not paying attention. Also, some ships seem to put out AA fire at pretty incredible ranges, so there is little to do about it. When you manual drop closer, you can put in more hits than an autodrop, sure.....but just the same all your planes are dead now. 

 

5 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Again...unfortunately the MM will not be changing 

Well that is unfortunate, and I didn't really expect anything to happen as a result of just my post...but why cant MM be changed? I generally have no trouble finding a match in much less than 5 minutes. There are plenty of people, I don't think there would be long queue times with slightly more tier-selective matchmaking. 

 

5 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

but when you get humans on your teams eventually they will be able to help by shooting some of that AA off of those opposing ships to make it easier to get in for the attacks.

Already have no bots in my games. And if you had read my post, you would notice that I said my counterpart on the enemy team is always having the same problem:

 

8 hours ago, Frumbis said:

I note that I'm not the only one with this problem. I don't even have to use my fighters for air defense anymore in most games. I can never even get to his [Enemy CV] planes before most of them are shot down by my allies' CA's and BB's. Sure, I can use my planes to scout, and I do, but that only goes so far. I'm pretty sure I would have much more overall impact on the game if I just picked a different class of ship.

 

Edited by Frumbis

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51 minutes ago, Frumbis said:
6 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

 

Already have no bots in my games. And if you had read my post, you would notice that I said my counterpart on the enemy team is always having the same problem:

When you get matched into a higher tier match i.e tier 6 in a tier 8 match the AA will be a lot better, there are some ships that still have crap AA if your not sure have a look at the other teams ships and see which ones have good AA avoid them early on in the game. Start by spotting and giving AA cover let your teams HE so there job and knock out the other teams AA , it's something you learn more as you play more, here is a example if you went to do a TB drop on a ship with full hp and lost your whole squad before you get the drop off then there is no way to do a drop on it but if you wait till it's down to 1/2 hp and go for the drop again you will find you will get the drop done and lose no planes or just a couple because there AA has been knocked out or cut down to do less damage to your planes. 

Tier 8 you will hit the same thing again getting put in matches with tier 10 and you have to do the same thing spot and give AA cover till later in the game when there AA has been knocked out it sucks but there is not a lot you can do about it but play smart and wait for the chance to strike, the more you can spot the better it helps your team to win the match. If the other CV wants to keep losing planes to your team let him because when you can strike the ships they will have nothing there end to strike or even counter your planes.

DD are normally ok to do strikes on, cruisers you have to be careful as some have good AA and DF to use to eat your ships up, when it comes to BB it all depends on the ship a lot of tier 8 BB have good AA like the French and US  line and if they are spec for AA don't even go near them. Check the ships at the team screen to learn which ships have good AA and which ones don't, don't rush to do a strike if you can't spot and wait then hit them hard when the time comes.

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Unfortunately with the way CV's work,  even one tier up can mean a big difference.  Its a very stat based ship class and the way AA works makes it even worse.  See,  AA doesn't deal damage per se.  Yes,  I know,  planes have hitpoint totals,  but those don't mean what you think.  See how it works is that AA rating is matched up against plane hitpoints and spun through a formula ((With some random numbers thrown because lul)) and if the the AA wins,  a plane is shot down.  If the hitpoints win,  nothing happens.  Each individual set of AA guns have a different range to them and each caliber fires at a different rate.  Each set has its own aura so each one is constantly rolling different changes to shoot down enemy aircraft.  

*Takes a deep breath*  And that's also why fighters are so screwed by tier.  They are so dependent on numbers that without some pretty extreme differences the higher tier planes will generally win.  

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11 hours ago, ausanimal said:

He can't be in the protected matches if he is playing the Independence.

 

 

7 hours ago, Frumbis said:

Yeah I'm for sure not in protected MM, and haven't been for a long while

Didn't know there was a tier that it kicked you out of protected MM at...thought it was a set # of games (after 14k+ games kinda didn't remember) sorry...

or was it a set # & the # was 100?

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