Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu

Will Helena and Boise reach Belfast / Fiji levels of performance?

12 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
2,167 posts
4,892 battles

I'm really looking forward to these two because they have 15 guns. That's even more fire starting potential and IFHE penetration than the Atlanta, which I'm currently enjoying a lot and it's my first ship with a purple rating. As we can see on WoWS Numbers, Belfast and Fiji can be called outliers for the performance of Tier 7 cruisers, their average numbers would be above average even for Tier 8. I wonder how Helena and Boise will perform once they're released, will they be contenders on the charts with Fiji and Belfast? Will they become popular very quickly, with a lot of battles played?

   I did enjoy the Tier 6 Cleveland but didn't get to play that many battles in her before the split. I'm looking to replicate that enjoyment, coupled with my current enjoyment of the Atlanta, on the CL line. Two more weeks to go..... seems like forever. I've grown used to the playstyle of using islands and lobbing shells over them, and as far as I understand Helena / Boise are Atlantas with 152mm guns and without torpedoes, not that I can often use torpedoes on the Atlanta anyway.

 

   What do you guys think? Will these two ships be high performers compared to same tier cruisers? Will you just stop at Helena or continue onto Worcester?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,208
[-K-]
Members
6,598 posts
10,949 battles

Probably no more or no less than the 15 gun Mogami regularly performs.  But none of these ships will have the tool kit Belfast has, so don't expect that level of performance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,167 posts
4,892 battles

Mogami at Tier 8 averages 42-43k in damage, Belfast and Fiji at Tier 7 already average a bit more than Mogami.

The other cruisers at Tier 7:

Myoko-37k

NO-38k (down from 56k after almost two weeks, will it continue to drop?)

Algerie-40k

Shchors-

Old Pensacola-28k

Atlanta-29k

Indy-30k

Shchors-42k?

 

I predict Helena and Boise to be close to NO, mid to high "30s" in terms of average damage. They take time to master, just like the Cleveland and Atlanta. They will do enough damage, but can feel very situational at times, will struggle when up-tiered, and somewhat team dependent. The team ideally keeps the enemy at bay so these ships can adequately use island cover and not be flanked.

 

Also I looked at the K/D ratios of Belfast and Fiji, they are superb by cruiser standards.

Edited by Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,894
[HYDRO]
Members
3,467 posts
4,940 battles

You cant really narrow it down however that easily when it comes to Fiji/Belfast, seeing as their true prime was before the smokefire nerfs. I bet these stats still carry over. They are still of course on the top, just not to such a ridiculous degree. 

While Fiji/Belfast can create their own cover,in Helena/Boise you have to take into account the exposure needed to fire all 15 guns, maps and island cover to be safe to do so, and of course the shell ballistics.

In the same way that Shchors thrives in open maps and long ranges that benefit his gunnery, Helena/Boise will thrive in shorter ranges with cover that benefits their arcs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,167 posts
4,892 battles
Just now, warheart1992 said:

You cant really narrow it down however that easily when it comes to Fiji/Belfast, seeing as their true prime was before the smokefire nerfs. I bet these stats still carry over. They are still of course on the top, just not to such a ridiculous degree. 

While Fiji/Belfast can create their own cover,in Helena/Boise you have to take into account the exposure needed to fire all 15 guns, maps and island cover to be safe to do so, and of course the shell ballistics.

In the same way that Shchors thrives in open maps and long ranges that benefit his gunnery, Helena/Boise will thrive in shorter ranges with cover that benefits their arcs.

It's true that the US light cruisers are best at fighting close range, but that close range often involves the use of cover. They can brawl if they really have to (and with support), but it's not ideal. They struggle on maps without enough island cover. 

 

I didnt know about the smoke fire nerds because up to this point I haven't really learned about smoke as a mechanic (except when I am in it).

 

 

How difficult would it be to get all guns firing on the Helena / Boise? So most of the time I'll basically be playing a Cleveland / La Galisonierre?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,323
[POP]
Beta Testers
4,142 posts
5,955 battles

thinking about it,helena and her sisters are the antithesis of shchors,they need to get a good cover to abuse that arc while close enough to mitigate the arc flight time,scchors meanwhille is a dangerous beast at max range,shooting with incredible accuracy and speed,it's funny how useless scchors torpedoes are,they could be used on usn cruisers,since they need to get closer.

Edited by Cruxdei

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,958
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
7,834 posts
12,043 battles

I doubt it.

Helena lacks concealment nullifying tools and is left as a T7 Cleveland comparing unfavorably to T6 Cleveland - with less AA, fewer HP and at 7.1 instead of 7.5 RPM she's only a little bit ahead at 106 to 90 RPM on output, and behind if purely bow/stern on. She will likely have the same 1-dimensional island hugging playstyle but probably isn't going to be a carry ship. Cleveland wasn't OP at T6, a tradeoff/worse Cleveland at T7 is questionable.

 

Boise/9dJ does have radar which you will be able to leverage to do pretty monstrous things a lot of the time - 33,000 HE alpha when you're going up against T5 destroyers and radar is probably going to be nasty. Her problem otherwise is that she gets only 6 RPM so the Fiji/Belfast are actually ahead in rounds thrown downrange, her range is abysmal at 13.6(!) and she's slow at 30kt. I suspect she'll have a lot of fun making T5 destroyer drivers quit - so long as you use the radar wisely, closing the range, making sure guns are on target but when confronted by any serious or higher tier opposition will look pretty crap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,894
[HYDRO]
Members
3,467 posts
4,940 battles
7 minutes ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

It's true that the US light cruisers are best at fighting close range, but that close range often involves the use of cover. They can brawl if they really have to (and with support), but it's not ideal. They struggle on maps without enough island cover. 

 

I didnt know about the smoke fire nerds because up to this point I haven't really learned about smoke as a mechanic (except when I am in it).

 

 

How difficult would it be to get all guns firing on the Helena / Boise? So most of the time I'll basically be playing a Cleveland / La Galisonierre?

I can't comment on the firing angles of Helena/Boise, I think iChase did a  gameplay video on them that shows it.

Long story short when it comes to Fiji/Belfast, while now all the ships have a detection penalty when firing from smoke (I think Fiji/Belfast get spotted if they fire from smoke from around 5-5.5 km) before the nerfs you got no penalty. You could sit in your smoke, and as long as your opponent was farther than 2km and had no hydro or radar, you were competely concealed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
595
[TOG]
Members
3,566 posts
19,018 battles
1 hour ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

I didnt know about the smoke fire nerds because up to this point I haven't really learned about smoke as a mechanic (except when I am in it).

The patch notes at 0.6.12 says it all. Rule of thumb is that the large larger the gun caliber fired, the further out you'll be spotted. And the OSWF nerf and proxy rule to it. That means. if one ship spots you everyone within range can fire at least 1 salvo at you. 

In the old days, a Perth/Belfast/ Kutuzov can close on a group of ships to just about the point their detected, smoke up then whale away then break contact before any ship can get detected.. now, it's not as easy to break contact.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,154
[WOLF3]
Members
20,943 posts
19,393 battles

Considering the whining I hear about Cleveland at Tier VIII, which USN CLs Cruisers must live a particular lifestyle or die, Helena & Boise will be the same. 

 

Helena does not have Belfast concealment, smoke, radar, AND hydro.  It's Belfast's stealth and consumables that make her what she is.

 

Boise has Radar, but she doesn't have the concealment to make it dangerous, the same way Indianapolis' concealment negates her Radar.  Boise also does not have smoke.

 

Maybe Helena & Boise will churn out respectable numbers, but I highly doubt they will sway matches the way Belfast does.  Belfast may farm some damage, but she more importantly sways matches.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,167 posts
4,892 battles

I wonder if these ships will be played as slightly bigger Atlantas armed with 152mm guns. Looking at the numbers on WoWS Numbers, Atlanta seems to be a high skill floor ship (though it could also be because she's one of the oldest premiums, so the stats will naturally drop as a result of many battles played). Will Helena / Boise be 'like' Atlanta?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×