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Ace_04

Moskva Buff - Is This Really Necessary?

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Seriously, did I miss the memo that said Moskva was in need of help?  More of an honest question instead of a rant.....is this really necessary? 

Won't this just promote more campy, less-dynamic Moskva play than already exists?

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i actually wonder how that buff will impact moskva in clan battles,republique is already mopping the floor with most cruisers.

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5 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Won't this just promote more campy, less-dynamic Moskva play than already exists?

I happen to think this is exactly why it's getting buffed. No one played the ship properly, but instead tried to bow-tank in it with spectacularly bad results.

This in turn drove its engagement and performance numbers down. So WG has felt the need to step in.

In a way, WG is rewarding bad players for using this ship wrong.

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13 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Seriously, did I miss the memo that said Moskva was in need of help?  More of an honest question instead of a rant.....is this really necessary? 

Won't this just promote more campy, less-dynamic Moskva play than already exists?

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6 minutes ago, yacskn said:

I happen to think this is exactly why it's getting buffed. No one played the ship properly, but instead tried to bow-tank in it with spectacularly bad results.

This in turn drove its engagement and performance numbers down. So WG has felt the need to step in.

In a way, WG is rewarding bad players for using this ship wrong.

There'd been a number of cases when fighting for a cap you have no choice but to angle bow on against BB's. A DM could handle it but not a Moskva. 50 mm though? That is more that enough to tank a 457 mm shell.

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Perhabs Moskva needs a buff, though even that is debatable. But I don‘t understand why ships like the Ranger, the Izumo or the Kagerou remain in the state they are in right now.

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Just now, SireneRacker said:

Perhabs Moskva needs a buff, though even that is debatable. But I don‘t understand why ships like the Ranger, the Izumo or the Kagerou remain in the state they are in right now.

for izumo they would need to change the entire ship structure,her biggest flaw is that ridiculous third turret facing backwards.

Ranger might get something with the CV rework.

now kagero...well i heard WG is not really a fan of ijn dds.

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6 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

There'd been a number of cases when fighting for a cap you have no choice but to angle bow on against BB's. A DM could handle it but not a Moskva. 50 mm though? That is more that enough to tank a 457 mm shell.

Yeah, but that is a situation a Moskva should never find itself in. It's a long-range support ship, not a island-hugging, capping ship like the DM.

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2 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

for izumo they would need to change the entire ship structure,her biggest flaw is that ridiculous third turret facing backwards.

Ranger might get something with the CV rework.

now kagero...well i heard WG is not really a fan of ijn dds.

Izumo is extremely vulnerable against HE spam, so even a few mm of armor at the midsection would have a huge impact.

Ranger is beyond garbage. Not just because the Hiryuu is screwing her over like it‘s nothing, we also have two extremely powerful Premiums at that Tier. But appearantly even a few minor buffs to the hangar capacity or the fighter hp is too much...

But the Moskva, a ship that I would‘ve never considered to be particularly weak, she is getting buffed. This is more annoying than anything.

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All their decisions of late point to "We want more stagnant gameplay", truly a wonderful time to be playing Botes.

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Mine has a 22.5km main battery range so yes indeed this is needed. See... if you move in with the dds to radar a cap you get nuked. It seems no matter how you juke or jink, zip or even zag, at any proximity closer than say 15km she takes one heckuva beating. So if this gets adopted yay, I can really move in with a bit more confidence to assist dds capping. 

She really does shine at range though... so too does Charlie M. 

 

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5 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

Izumo is extremely vulnerable against HE spam, so even a few mm of armor at the midsection would have a huge impact.

Ranger is beyond garbage. Not just because the Hiryuu is screwing her over like it‘s nothing, we also have two extremely powerful Premiums at that Tier. But appearantly even a few minor buffs to the hangar capacity or the fighter hp is too much...

But the Moskva, a ship that I would‘ve never considered to be particularly weak, she is getting buffed. This is more annoying than anything.

i like to think that the CV rework will use the graf zeppelin as inspiration.

manual drops removed,that might hurt the torp bombers if they remain with the same drop(torps get further away) but dive bombers will have an easier time.

secondary guns will become her main defense against destroyers or anything that get close to her.

no more strafing,relying more on commander skills and the inherent flaws of the planes.

that might force CVs to position anywhere else besides the edge of the map.

Edited by Cruxdei

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15 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

There'd been a number of cases when fighting for a cap you have no choice but to angle bow on against BB's. A DM could handle it but not a Moskva. 50 mm though? That is more that enough to tank a 457 mm shell.

The DM could handle it? On what planet? It goes down faster than any Cruiser I've played in a Tier 10 match.

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8 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

The DM could handle it? On what planet? It goes down faster than any Cruiser I've played in a Tier 10 match.

DM has thicker bow armor.

If Your DM is going down faster than any other Cruiser in T10, you are playing it very wrong.

Nothing should ever come close to the Mino, and that gap the size of the grand canyon keeps getting larger the more radar saturation WG adds in with their hypocrisy.

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I think it is more for this reason.

Moskva in Clan battles cannot stick its nose out  from behind an island to fire its guns with out showing a lot of it.

Before it can reverse back into cover in most cases.

So in order for it to do so they are giving it more armor up front.

I am curious though will this thicker armor protect its front citadel from side shots in my Desmoines when i catch one trying to push out from behind and island?

In randoms in will still be in the back eating HE spam like normal.

 

 

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I was under the impression Moskva is more effective using her long range MB and agility (if running both steering mods) to lure away BB fire while burning down the opposition. For most part the campfest playstyle I've seen, Moskva simply is asking for a long pounding of HE.

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39 minutes ago, yacskn said:

I happen to think this is exactly why it's getting buffed. No one played the ship properly, but instead tried to bow-tank in it with spectacularly bad results.

This in turn drove its engagement and performance numbers down. So WG has felt the need to step in.

In a way, WG is rewarding bad players for using this ship wrong.

Yeah, this seems really counter-productive in my mind.  I get it that Moskva is huge and is an easy broadside target for BBs, but trying to play Moskva like Yamato is pretty boring, at least to me.

26 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

Perhabs Moskva needs a buff, though even that is debatable. But I don‘t understand why ships like the Ranger, the Izumo or the Kagerou remain in the state they are in right now.

Maybe there is a clamoring on the RU server we're not seeing?  I don't like buying into the Russian bias hype, but perhaps this is a move to pander to that region.  Either that, or WG doesn't want Moskva to be completely overshadowed by Kronshtadt and Stalingrad.

13 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Mine has a 22.5km main battery range so yes indeed this is needed. See... if you move in with the dds to radar a cap you get nuked. It seems no matter how you juke or jink, zip or even zag, at any proximity closer than say 15km she takes one heckuva beating. So if this gets adopted yay, I can really move in with a bit more confidence to assist dds capping. 

She really does shine at range though... so too does Charlie M. 

With her accuracy and shell velocity, a well played Moskva should never need to get that close to a cap.  She can easily support DDs from 10-15km away.

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Or it is getting buffed because typical Wargaming routine is to make changes to A, whilst only D is broken. Hell, that is how we got Radar in the game. Kro/Stalin will pretty much eclipse Moskva in any role Moskva was intended for.

Problem is, a little better armor isn't going to give it role, nor a new one.

It's either going to need to have some unrealistically buffed pen values to keep up, or hold a very large accuracy standard over the Kron/Stalingrad.

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5 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Either that, or WG doesn't want Moskva to be completely overshadowed by Kronshtadt and Stalingrad.

I suspect this to be the case.

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9 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Maybe there is a clamoring on the RU server we're not seeing?  I don't like buying into the Russian bias hype, but perhaps this is a move to pander to that region.  Either that, or WG doesn't want Moskva to be completely overshadowed by Kronshtadt and Stalingrad.

I don‘t have info on anything particular on Moskva, but I just don‘t see the logic behind buffing a ship that is mediocre at worst, while ignoring the insane balance issues of ships that are straight up garbage.

I don‘t even want to talk about Emerald...

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14 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

With her accuracy and shell velocity, a well played Moskva should never need to get that close to a cap.  She can easily support DDs from 10-15km away.

This is how I feel when I get into just about any cruiser compared to playing in a DD. I am always shocked at the DPS, the accuracy of the rifles and that I can actually be effective at 14km out and do REAL damage compared to Destroyers. I get the "wow, guns really do stuff!" feeling a lot more often than I do in a DD.

Ran Indy the other day and those AP shells are brutal when they hit, I found no spot where it "struggled" provided I played it like it should be played (aka far away, so you'd better aim well, and WASD) I managed 5 Citadels, and found the ship to be great other than the AA is pretty weaksauce considering how exposed you need to be in order to use the ship, but again, manageable. You do need to switch between AP and HE though, my god, the humanity!

Playing cruisers as though they are giant DD has really made it a lot more simple for me, I just wish I enjoyed playing stuff other than DD more is all. 

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15 minutes ago, DynDueMuffin said:

Moskva needs buffs, but ships like Lexington and Ibuki are fine, WG?

Agreed.  There are a lot of older ships in the tech trees that are definitely in need of love more than Moskva.  Power creep is real.

8 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

I don‘t have info on anything particular on Moskva, but I just don‘t see the logic behind buffing a ship that is mediocre at worst, while ignoring the insane balance issues of ships that are straight up garbage.

I don‘t even want to talk about Emerald...

Emerald probably won't get much love because she is low tier (even though I agree with you), but others that come to mind (at a higher priority than Moskva) are:

  • Mahan
  • La Galissionaire
  • New York
  • Ranger
  • T-22
  • South Carolina
  • Kawachi

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4 minutes ago, Canadatron said:

This is how I feel when I get into just about any cruiser compared to playing in a DD. I am always shocked at the DPS, the accuracy of the rifles and that I can actually be effective at 14km out and do REAL damage compared to Destroyers. I get the "wow, guns really do stuff!" feeling a lot more often than I do in a DD.

Ran Indy the other day and those AP shells are brutal when they hit, I found no spot where it "struggled" provided I played it like it should be played (aka far away, so you'd better aim well, and WASD) I managed 5 Citadels, and found the ship to be great other than the AA is pretty weaksauce considering how exposed you need to be in order to use the ship, but again, manageable. You do need to switch between AP and HE though, my god, the humanity!

Playing cruisers as though they are giant DD has really made it a lot more simple for me, I just wish I enjoyed playing stuff other than DD more is all. 

Indy is a decent ship, but her armor definitely doesn't hold up well with only 25mm fore and aft.  She gets hit hard by just about everything, including 203mm HE spam, which makes it tough to get her into radar range.  27mm fore end plating would go a long way to soothe her woes.

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6 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Emerald probably won't get much love because she is low tier (even though I agree with you), but others that come to mind (at a higher priority than Moskva) are:

  • Mahan
  • La Galissionaire
  • New York
  • Ranger
  • T-22
  • South Carolina
  • Kawachi

I would even add a few ships, namely Izumo, Kagerou, Ognevoi and Mutsuki. 

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