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Kerabatsos

WG please support BBs who push

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So i like to play MO up front to use the radar and shoot at the red dds and let our dds know where the red dds are etc... This is the most important thing at the start of the game, kill dds!

so I race to this position on the map, the reds dont like it one bit. i am able to shoot around the island in both directions. reds tried to torp me a dozen times but couldnt get to me. however they almost burned me down completely many times. 

Anyways, with me and dds in front, the cas and behind me, along with other bbs were able to pick apart the reds one by one who all took turns trying to get to me.

my MO that far forward caused such a distraction that the greens won quickly. i didnt have a huge game dmg wise but it was hairy and fun. 

I didnt win much points at XP wise but i spent the entire game  center line right next to cap, radaring and controlling the center.

It seem like WG could give points awarded for the amount of time spent near or in a cap especially for bbs and this would encourage more engaging game play?

i took the screen grab late in the game to show my position. by this time the other bbs started pushing.

am i wrong? 

Capture.JPG

Edited by Kerabatsos
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6 minutes ago, Kerabatsos said:

So i like to play MO up front to use the radar and shoot at the red dds and let our dds know where the red dds are etc... This is the most important thing at the start of the game, kill dds!

so I race to this position on the map, the reds dont like it one bit. i am able to shoot around the island in both directions. reds tried to torp me a dozen times but couldnt get to me. however they almost burned me down completely many times. 

Anyways, with me and dds in front, the cas and behind me, along with other bbs were able to pick apart the reds one by one who all took turns trying to get to me.

my MO that far forward caused such a distraction that the greens won quickly. i didnt have a huge game dmg wise but it was hairy and fun. 

I didnt win much points at XP wise but i spent the entire game  center line right next to cap, radaring and controlling the center.

It seem like WG could give points awarded for the amount of time spent near or in a cap especially for bbs and this would encourage more engaging game play?

i took the screen grab late in the game to show my position. by this time the other bbs started pushing.

am i wrong? 

Capture.JPG

As a cruiser main, I find your aggressive style refreshing. Yes, I totally agree that there should be some way to incentivize active play, or at least de-incentivize the hide-and-camp motif that infects the NA server.

On the EU and RU servers, excessively passive play is unusual, and always harshly criticized. I go there and play a Bismarck every so often just to remind myself that upper-tier games don't have to be boring. The Big Biz in a hybrid secondary/survival build does just fine against all comers at close range, especially if other battleships are moving forward as a unit. I can't do that on my NA battleships because the other BB's are too busy trying to keep their camo clean...it's just a solo yolo suicide trip.

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19 minutes ago, TF77 said:

As a cruiser main, I find your aggressive style refreshing. Yes, I totally agree that there should be some way to incentivize active play, or at least de-incentivize the hide-and-camp motif that infects the NA server.

On the EU and RU servers, excessively passive play is unusual, and always harshly criticized. I go there and play a Bismarck every so often just to remind myself that upper-tier games don't have to be boring. The Big Biz in a hybrid secondary/survival build does just fine against all comers at close range, especially if other battleships are moving forward as a unit. I can't do that on my NA battleships because the other BB's are too busy trying to keep their camo clean...it's just a solo yolo suicide trip.

This is interesting. I don't have a Bismark but I want one and I want to brawl with it but I am not motivated to because I know mostly it will go down as a yolo as soon as I am focused by the reds because i am the only bb within 12km of them. Makes me want to start a new account on the RU server

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WG also listens to DD guys, that like punishing Bbs for just this sort of play, hence we have Asashio and the proposed adjustments to eliminate AP 1/3 pens on DDs. 

They are in the process of reinforcing passive BB  play by making pushing much more likely to result in the loss of the BB. 

I play BBs but also DDs. This isn't a value judgement, obviously, WG wants to address its customers' desires about the game. It's the law of unintended consequences. 

 

Edited by LancerUlysses
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I am often rewarded when I push in battleships - by winning more.

Same with destroyers and racking up spotting damage.

Unfortunately, this is about the only stat I really see rewarded. I really wish that heroic WoWS had ribbons or achievements for 100k spotting damage and 2.5M potential damage :(

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1 minute ago, enderland07 said:

I am often rewarded when I push in battleships - by winning more.

Same with destroyers and racking up spotting damage.

Unfortunately, this is about the only stat I really see rewarded. I really wish that heroic WoWS had ribbons or achievements for 100k spotting damage and 2.5M potential damage :(

 Cannot agree more. WG's other real title has several rewards for scouting.

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idk if it would be a fix all solution, but having rewards based on the stuff you do, and how close to the cap you were when you did them would be nice.  The guy in spawn wont get as much as the guy who is next to or in the cap, even tho they have the same damage quality, #s, spotting etc,.    Im not sure if the guy in the cap, who is constantly being reset(losing all his cap progress) really gets anything for eventually capping because someone else got all of the cap points.  You get the ribbon, but idk if you really get any rewards out of it. 

 

Of course the above only works if you are in a dom match, and not the crappy standard battle. 

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14 hours ago, TF77 said:

As a cruiser main, I find your aggressive style refreshing. Yes, I totally agree that there should be some way to incentivize active play, or at least de-incentivize the hide-and-camp motif that infects the NA server.

On the EU and RU servers, excessively passive play is unusual, and always harshly criticized. I go there and play a Bismarck every so often just to remind myself that upper-tier games don't have to be boring. The Big Biz in a hybrid secondary/survival build does just fine against all comers at close range, especially if other battleships are moving forward as a unit. I can't do that on my NA battleships because the other BB's are too busy trying to keep their camo clean...it's just a solo yolo suicide trip.

Try playing when children are asleep or in school, you can find some nice agressive play. I love taking my BBs and going 16km or less, with my real joy being about 5-8km or less in distance from enemy ships. :fish_cute_2:

Edited by Admiral_Thrawn_1
Corrected auto correct spelling errors
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I will confess, too, that I occasionally play coop to get my "fix" for this.

Full secondary specced tirpitz. Goal: as much damage as possible...... without ever firing main guns.

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You could always recommend Pirates of the Carribean movies as BB training vids. When the ships clash they are usually at very close ranges, so not a bad example at all for BBs innthe game lol.

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When I play BBs I usually push only to find my support has turned tail at the sight of a DD let alone a CA or BB. My reward? Focus fire and an early return to port.

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I almost exclusively push in my battleships. The problem is when I receive zero support... the BIGGER problem is when my support either A) doesn't wait for me, or (more commonly) B) decides to bail out and go elsewhere, leaving me to fight off 2-3 destroyers where even one supporting vessel would have made a massive impact. It's indescribably frustrating to commit to a push as a battleship only to have the vessels you were depending on decide that things were too sketchy and to high-tail it; they are capable of running, and I am not.

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5 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

You could always recommend Pirates of the Carribean movies as BB training vids. When the ships clash they are usually at very close ranges, so not a bad example at all for BBs innthe game lol.

Ever see the 1956 flick "Pursuit of the Graf Spee"? Corny acting and dialogue but it has real ships, including the actual HMS Achilles (as INS Delhi).

The battle sequence is a great primer on large ships in action against smaller ones. Lot of gunfire shots. Great color footage of cruisers maneuvering. I just love the "ding ding" salvo warning bells on the British cruisers, much cooler than the squawking buzzer horns and school bells on US ships. :cap_like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_of_the_River_Plate_(film)

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8 hours ago, Kerabatsos said:

It seem like WG could give points awarded for the amount of time spent near or in a cap especially for bbs and this would encourage more engaging game play?

WG has made it clear that they don't want to encourage capping and making it a center of the game. They want people to shoot and move and kill.

A substantial increase in potential damage reward for BBs is badly needed though. There's absolutely zero incentive for BBs to tank and push at the moment.

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8 hours ago, enderland07 said:

I am often rewarded when I push in battleships - by winning more.

Same with destroyers and racking up spotting damage.

Unfortunately, this is about the only stat I really see rewarded. I really wish that heroic WoWS had ribbons or achievements for 100k spotting damage and 2.5M potential damage :(

I agree you should get something for spotting damage as well as potential damage. I would go as far as 3 mil potential damage. I average on most bbs 2.5 mill easy. some cruisers like hindi and henri as well. but as for spotting only a cv will get around 100k+ spotting a game.  most DD's only average about 30-50k spotting damage. a lot of it has to do with people not shotting the target you spot until after that target shots their guns, which means you are no longer the only person spotting it so you don't get spotting damage. I think my highest average spotting damage in a dd is only 40k. most I think was 128k. I would say spotting reward for everyone but a cv should be about 70k and for a cv 120k. for the reward, 10 det flags can be collected 2 times a day.

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1 hour ago, Jamesalot_ET said:

I agree you should get something for spotting damage as well as potential damage. I would go as far as 3 mil potential damage. I average on most bbs 2.5 mill easy. some cruisers like hindi and henri as well. but as for spotting only a cv will get around 100k+ spotting a game.  most DD's only average about 30-50k spotting damage. a lot of it has to do with people not shotting the target you spot until after that target shots their guns, which means you are no longer the only person spotting it so you don't get spotting damage. I think my highest average spotting damage in a dd is only 40k. most I think was 128k. I would say spotting reward for everyone but a cv should be about 70k and for a cv 120k. for the reward, 10 det flags can be collected 2 times a day.

If the reward is 70k spotting damage, I'll hit that nearly every high tier destroyer game I play.

I guess is that a bad thing though - whether it's 3M or 2.5M it should reward battleship players who tank. Same with DD players who spot. Unfortunately, it will also reward YOLOer battleship players, though those tend to die fast so maybe they don't get potential damage.

 

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Games that balance "roles" and the rewards for role behaviors usually are more stable than games that focus on damage.....team symmetry versus FPS symmetry.    Unfortunately, WoWs is a FPS and that means, the DD and BB niche players expect and demand the same thing !  And, that just doesn't work in a game based on WW2 equipment and actual histories.  It's why a large number of my friends, all ex military tankers, just can't play WoT's.....  Too hokey....and, we have the actual "tank experiences" that makes the game out-right un-playable...  The same goes for this game.  A fine line to balance on: how do you keep the players who really love history and those players who just love to blow stuff up?

I feel, WG is losing that "balance" in favor of FPS's.......they must spend more than the rest of us and, as the saying goes: "follow the money..."

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12 hours ago, neptunes_wrath said:

you could give a BB 100K XP for being in a cap and they would NOT DO IT....

WRONG...many would....and us ones that do it now...get called Idiot...Get Back!...Stupid Montana....I don't give a shite....secondary spec,man fire sec and AA,,,come close to me and say hello to my little friend. Everyone has they're own playstyle granted...there is NO stopping three BB's pushing as a unit.

Edited by C_D

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Or simply nerf what has been factually making BBs overpowered since 2015, accuracy.

It is basic psychology and path of least resistance. If it wasn't profitable they *WOULDNT* do it.
Nerf BB accuracy by a large chunk, not their max range. If they want to take pot shots while pushing they can, but they shouldn't have sniper accuracy on the highest EHP and Armor ship type... which also happens to have highest burst damage (consistent).

If BB accuracy gets nerfed (large), buff their DCP immunity time to promote aggressive play. You also get less BBs whining about CVs because now they will generally be inside Ally AA bubbles

Edited by zarth12
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6 hours ago, TF77 said:

Ever see the 1956 flick "Pursuit of the Graf Spee"? Corny acting and dialogue but it has real ships, including the actual HMS Achilles (as INS Delhi).

The battle sequence is a great primer on large ships in action against smaller ones. Lot of gunfire shots. Great color footage of cruisers maneuvering. I just love the "ding ding" salvo warning bells on the British cruisers, much cooler than the squawking buzzer horns and school bells on US ships. :cap_like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_of_the_River_Plate_(film)

Lol saw a little of that film, but it was so corny and Graf Spee looked so inaccurate it was painful.

 

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not near the cap, that's too situational, but reward more xp/credit for potential damage taken, then bbs will push more

Edited by Happy668

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The rewards for good brawlers are actually really good, my Gneisenau and Bismarck can frequently enough put welll over 100-150k damage done and then kills, and planes shot down on top of that. And I can give you a hint on how that is done, lol keep enemy in Secondary gun range as much as possible and of course use main guns.

I think some players are just too fearful, inexperienced, or simply have not been told about the increased rewards granted to those who brawl.

Even Yamato on which I only upgraded Secondaries enough to help deter DDs and give my AA the much needed boost, had out brawled a Kurfurst recently. My team loved that and I got some Karma points from it lol. Trick is just being bold, learning what angles to use your ship at, keeping your ship moving since circling an enemy ship to throw off their aim of their main guns can really help, and equipping your ship with Captain skills and maybe some equipment to aid in brawling. Even ships only partially specced for brawling can get into some brawls as long as you don’t get into one that is disadvantageous to begin with. And you also need premium damage control and premium repair part to get the fires out when you get too many fires and to put HP back on your ship since some brawls will leave you a sliver of HP away from being dead and with extra heals at faster rate you can get back into fighting shape enroute to next victim. 

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