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Erebthoron

One thing I don't understand about the Killer Whale scenario

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We did okish but when it comes to second part of the match one BB decited to sail in the cover of the mountains instead of moving out to support the cruisers. So a Warspite and my Mutsu needed to sail back to kill the waves / carriers.

The mission ends with just 2 ships alive... but we made it with 5 stars.

So, is it enough you were once in the retreat spot but not have to stay inside of it?

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I understood rather quickly and got the Tier 6 US CV and I get top score often and make it into the harbor and back to the anchor on the west edge or north edge almost every time. So get a tier 6 CV and whoop booty every time. I mean after all the bots have 3 CVs and out number the team by a wide margin.

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I think once you were in you were in and can leave it (don't quote me on that though). What amazes me is that people don't know that they have to keep ships from entering the haven and kill the first and second waves including the CVs. Some teams really have it together. I spend most of my daily compliments on the first team that 5 stars it.

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2 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

I understood rather quickly and got the Tier 6 US CV and I get top score often and make it into the harbor and back to the anchor on the west edge or north edge almost every time. So get a tier 6 CV and whoop booty every time. I mean after all the bots have 3 CVs and out number the team by a wide margin.

Most of the CVs that I see rush in and get their planes all shot down, a few are really good though.

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@Sovereigndawg I am not very good at CVs at all. I only have the US tier 4 and 5 and the Saipan and I am just above terrible with them in co op so I don't even bother with them in random.  The tier 6 though I am quite good with for this battle and usually passable in co op but I wouldn't dare try random in it.

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4 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

@Sovereigndawg I am not very good at CVs at all. I only have the US tier 4 and 5 and the Saipan and I am just above terrible with them in co op so I don't even bother with them in random.  The tier 6 though I am quite good with for this battle and usually passable in co op but I wouldn't dare try random in it.

I don't even try to CV the scenarios< I make too many credits in the cruisers and credits are my nemesis. I did grind the Richelieu in the last one. I got the Alsace in four days, 190,000 XP.

Molotov and smoke cruisers are beasts in Killer Whale.

shot-18_06_06_18_09.58-0668.thumb.jpg.a5a2345ef2d4ca40713e2966ecc16841.jpg

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37 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

Most of the CVs that I see rush in and get their planes all shot down, a few are really good though.

Players who haven't learned, apparently, that the forts have laser beam anti-aircraft defenses that carve planes from the sky like carving blubber off a whale.

Play Independence and Ryujo in killer whale and pretty much always keep my squads mostly intact until the end.

Biggest problem I usually see is players not keeping the enemies out of the port; which really isn't that hard: while I go destroy or severely reduce the carriers, (making them easy pickings for a ship later.)

Sometimes also ships just need to DIE to secure a win.

If a SINGLE ship is in the exit point, and two are left but can't reach it before time runs out; one or both need to yolo and die. If all the secondary objectives are complete, and at least one of those two ships dies that means 'half the surviving ship retreated,' and should give a five star.

So many games that have been losses, just because players don't seem to understand the need to withdraw...

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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@Sovereigndawg yea that's impressive. I tried it early on with my tier 6 BBs and CAs but found teammates to be lacking. Then I figured since the bots had the 3 CVs 1 would be a good addition to the team to counter the 2 CVs that come in through the NW corner. Just had another killer match too.

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3 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

If a SINGLE ship is in the exit point, and two are left but can't reach it before time runs out; one or both need to yolo and die. If all the secondary objectives are complete, and at least one of those two ships dies that means 'half the surviving ship retreated,' and should give a five star.

It's really hard to explain this to them, or else they just never read the battle chat. Just let that BB sink you and we win. I don't know how many times I have tried to get some one to do it and they don't.

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@Estimated_Prophet I learned quickly to fly south then east out of fort range. Losses are minimal. Last match I got over 107k damage and shot down 61 bot planes!

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2 minutes ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

@Estimated_Prophet I learned quickly to fly south then east out of fort range. Losses are minimal. Last match I got over 107k damage and shot down 61 bot planes!

Pretty much. Cross the mountains and hammer the Nassau, keep that stupid DD spotted with fighters while attacking the Hosho fighters and torpies, then go back after the Konig(?) and Hosho, before heading out after the corner CVs....

If only the pew-pews would keep that T22 and the north Kolberg out of the port...

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@Estimated_Prophet I haven't seen you on any of the teams I have been on, but you have me pegged. It seems the only randomness they put in is the 2 anchor locations. That almost got me the first time I saw it so now I know to only go 1/2 way between the two and slow down or stop until the anchor pops up. I gather from the hint that you are an Okie!

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Both 5 stars I got were without a CV but what frustrates me the most is when one maybe 2 ships sail to the opening at F4, which for me has been the best place to enter and just go in a circle.,  If 1 or 2 ships got F4 then they get eaten by torps - especially if it is 1 or 2 CAs that go that direction.   Had some ships last night that just stayed at the other opening and languished in the upper part of the haven which is pretty useless.  I try to keep running commentary on if the CVs are down and how many need to escape or who needs to die.  Had a game earlier in the week where I said we needed to lose a ship.  A Spee then fled from an easy death and we lost the 5 stars.

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4 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Sometimes also ships just need to DIE to secure a win.

 

This.  If you are in a slow ship but need to go the long way to secure mission objectives, you won't make it to the exit zone in time.  Keep a watch on the time, when it get close, charge in and ram.  I almost always do this in my HSF Graf Spee, that boat is very slow so when it gets too close on the timer, I charge in, launch all torpedoes and ram.  Usually the bots sink me before I get close though, being a rather slow boat.

 

Most players know what to do now, you should pile on the economic flags when playing this scenario as you'll almost always get 4 or 5 stars.  That, plus the Pensacola has proven to be more than adequate as a Cleveland replacement in this scenario.  It's accurate guns and monstrous AP sells nukes everything, from forts to bot cruisers.

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So, is it enough you were once in the retreat spot but not have to stay inside of it?

I would like to know the answer to that question as well.

I haven't done Killer Whale today. Wednesday I played it 10 times and was on 8 winning teams. Most were 5 star. Thursday & Friday I was unlucky enough to loose 4 or 5 when all we needed was one more ship to cross that green line to win with 5 stars.

If I go north to stop the BB & cruiser on a BB it is a suicide mission. I circle to the west & try to reek as much havoc as I can before I'm sunk. As fast as my Normandie is I can't get back to the retreat ares on the west.

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Gunships must kill the forts quickly to let the CV's planes roam.  CV can enter then (no hurry).

Everyone enter the northern exit!  The southern exit seems to be a meme, but is sub-optimal. Seen many ships get lost there.

CV, if there is a DD let him deal with docked ships while you do the loose ones.  Otherwise your choice of targets.  IMO the loose ships are best first since they deal the most damage.

DD leave your smoke generator at home (unless there's an occasion in open water outside the haven later in the game). 

Wherever the exit, two ships need to go NE to deal with the Kolberg and Kaiser.   Slow BB is good for this since there are enough ships up there to kill it if it can't get home on time.  (I had to let New Mex flood out last night.)

Ships need to exit through the S entrance since that's where the DDs will try to get into the haven.  (N exit is fine so long as S exit is covered.)  Don't send a BB out alone.  Torp soup.

If after the second wave, you're not twiddling your thumbs waiting for the next wave, you're not fast enough.  Try not to set up *at* a spawn point as the spawning ship will materialize inside you, resulting in surprise butt sex .. er.. ram death.

Chalk up another 5-star.  (Seven in a row last night before I got tired and went to bed.)

 

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20 minutes ago, CylonRed said:

Both 5 stars I got were without a CV but what frustrates me the most is when one maybe 2 ships sail to the opening at F4, which for me has been the best place to enter and just go in a circle.,  If 1 or 2 ships got F4 then they get eaten by torps - especially if it is 1 or 2 CAs that go that direction.   Had some ships last night that just stayed at the other opening and languished in the upper part of the haven which is pretty useless.

Don't use the S entrance!  You're too close to torps and BB broadside.  You don't gain anything going in that way and stand to lose your ship.

They shouldn't hang at the entrance ('cept CV), but no need for most ships to go deep into the N entrance, especially BBs.  They have the range to hit anything detected.  I see teams going too deep, then they can't get out until the CVs and DDs outside are well established and the NE group spawned and headed S.  (DD should go deep to deal with the shore installations and maybe moored ships.)

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21 minutes ago, bigbearbeear said:

That, plus the Pensacola has proven to be more than adequate as a Cleveland replacement in this scenario.  It's accurate guns and monstrous AP sells nukes everything, from forts to bot cruisers.

Absolutely.  I miss my old Cleveland, but not in this scenario.  Pensie (aka "Fort Killer") can be a monster.

 

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29 minutes ago, bigbearbeear said:

Most players know what to do now, you should pile on the economic flags when playing this scenario as you'll almost always get 4 or 5 stars.  That, plus the Pensacola has proven to be more than adequate as a Cleveland replacement in this scenario.  It's accurate guns and monstrous AP sells nukes everything, from forts to bot cruisers.

Actually hadn't thought about that... May need to give it a try!

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10 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Don't use the S entrance!  You're too close to torps and BB broadside.  You don't gain anything going in that way and stand to lose your ship.

They shouldn't hang at the entrance ('cept CV), but no need for most ships to go deep into the N entrance, especially BBs.  They have the range to hit anything detected.  I see teams going too deep, then they can't get out until the CVs and DDs outside are well established and the NE group spawned and headed S.  (DD should go deep to deal with the shore installations and maybe moored ships.)

This only if you don't have a competent carrier driver, or any carrier at all, (*) Otherwise you need to clear the south entrance so said driver can get inside.

(*) A smart CV driver will go south across the mountains to avoid getting their squads fried by fort AA, will nuke or cripple the Nassau, then keep that anklebiter lolibote (redacted)er spotted while chasing torpies and fighters from the moored Hosho. Will launch at least one or two attacks on the moored ships, then send their squads to the NE to attack the reinf. CVs. The rest is up to the pew-pews.

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16 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Actually hadn't thought about that... May need to give it a try!

I spec'd mine for AA with manual AA captain. Nom nom nom nom. It's brilliant in this scenario. 

Best cruisers: Buddy, Molotov, Pensacola, Nurnberg. The first two can mount a spotter which means that you can start burning the CV and Kaiser early since their location is known even if you can't see them. Buddy is especially good because its torps are murderous. I generally sweep the harbor then race north to kill the Kolberg and the Kaiser (with torps). 

The Kaiser enters with guns fully loaded, apparently.

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37 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Don't use the S entrance!  You're too close to torps and BB broadside.  You don't gain anything going in that way and stand to lose your ship.

If more than 3 ships go in that way it works out VERY well and no ships are lost and the CA's should have lost no less than 1/4 of their total health.  A BB up front that can repair with a couple CAs can generally take out the ships there and hit the shore in a couple minutes.  And also makes it so that the BB (Kaiser) moored up is broadside making it far easier to hit.  If done correctly I have never had less than 4 or 5 stars doing it this way.  Have actually had time to take a breather before going out to the open water.

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49 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

This only if you don't have a competent carrier driver, or any carrier at all, (*) Otherwise you need to clear the south entrance so said driver can get inside.

(*) A smart CV driver will go south across the mountains to avoid getting their squads fried by fort AA, will nuke or cripple the Nassau, then keep that anklebiter lolibote (redacted)er spotted while chasing torpies and fighters from the moored Hosho. Will launch at least one or two attacks on the moored ships, then send their squads to the NE to attack the reinf. CVs. The rest is up to the pew-pews.

Skirting the forts is a valid alternative, but a good team will take out the south entrance forts quickly, making it unnecessary to go the long way around.  Botes entering the N entrance can spot and kill Nassau and G-101, and are outside DD torp range.  They're also free to attack the inner forts without having to fight for their lives.  It's surprising how often we get a non-div player who insists on going in the S entrance, and either dies or loses half his health.

Quote

anklebiter lolibote (redacted)er

Yes, I'm very fond of the little [edited] too.  Almost as much as the :etc_swear: Kolbergs.  Man, I hate :etc_swear: Kolbergs (that I'm not driving).

 

22 minutes ago, CylonRed said:

If more than 3 ships go in that way it works out VERY well and no ships are lost and the CA's should have lost no less than 1/4 of their total health.  A BB up front that can repair

Listen to yourself!  You're describing how you can survive and repair damage that you don't have to take in the first place!

All to be closer to shore installations that are made of paper and can be one-shotted from across the map or snuffed on the way out.  I don't buy that it gives you a sliver of an advantage against the moored Kaiser.  You're closer when you open up, but you open up later than ships that come in N.  They are limited by detection range, not terrain.  And if you get broadside to Kaiser (yes, an advantage), you're too deep.

If you can make it work, then more power to you.  But there is a better way.

22 minutes ago, CylonRed said:

Have actually had time to take a breather before going out to the open water.

One often cleans out the haven "too quickly", but that is not the best time for a breather.  If you can get up N fast before the DDs and Hosho can get far from their spawn points, then you've got him by the short and curlies and can dictate the rest of the scenario. 

Edited by iDuckman
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A good CV driver makes Killer Whale much easier. In one battle the planes from the carrier at the dock were neutralized very quickly, the BB in the south was heavily damaged and it was a cake walk to complete the task. We were waiting on the 1st wave & 2nd wave of reinforcements and deleted them quickly. The CV has his planes behind the 2 carriers when they spawned and we made short work of them. We did not loose a ship in that operation. The CV had a good supporting cast as well. A couple of cruisers provide AA  & anti DD support for CV. There were only 2 or 3 red ships on the map when the battle ended. I had went north to take out the BB & cruiser and did not need to sacrifice myself to get a win.

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1 hour ago, iDuckman said:

Skirting the forts is a valid alternative, but a good team will take out the south entrance forts quickly, making it unnecessary to go the long way around.  Botes entering the N entrance can spot and kill Nassau and G-101, and are outside DD torp range.  They're also free to attack the inner forts without having to fight for their lives.  It's surprising how often we get a non-div player who insists on going in the S entrance, and either dies or loses half his health.

Yes, I'm very fond of the little [edited] too.  Almost as much as the :etc_swear: Kolbergs.  Man, I hate :etc_swear: Kolbergs (that I'm not driving).

Usually I head South (in a fishhook with the barb pointing at the south entrance,) so I can recover planes faster after working over the ships in the south.

Even keeping the DD spotted, its surprising how often it gets ignored; completely, or for a very long time.

Every once in a while I encounter teams so horribad the only place safe left for my carrier has been along the coast in the far SW corner...

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