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NoZoupForYou

Radar radar, everywhere; DD armor changes and more

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Part semi-rant by a raving lunatic, part urging for BBs and DDs to understand each classes current situation.  Happy Thursday.  We almost made it.

 

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Haven't had time to watch the video yet, but the influx of radar ships from the USN CL split is rough. I was trying to play my DD's but I end up in constant radar if I am any where near a cap, not very fun.

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Anything that prevents the vocal minority from playing "their favourite way" will bear immense scrutiny... For the most part I think the majority of players will generally grumble about it a little and then adapt or silently just leave. 

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While not a hard core DD guy I do enjoy playing them on occasion. Admittedly with the radar spam that is rapidly becoming the new meta it makes a DDs life hard & can be very frustrating. 

Radar is not a gods eye view as it is in WoW. IMO if they made it work line of sight (eg blocked by mountains) it would go a long way to balancing things back out. 

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Hi Zoup,

 

I wasn't too happy with the changes to firing in smoke since it also nerfed the RN CL line, Belfast, Kutuzon and Perth, but you learn to adapt over time. The great BB culling with the introduction of Asashio? Hasn't happened yet.

There is another issue with radar/hydro. Being able to see through islands. The proliferation of radar CA's would not be an issue if this bug was not present. It would become an issue if people in random starts chaining their radars. Playing dd's wold be like playing Asteroid at that point. So It might drive down the dd's present in a match down to 1..if at all.

So, when 0.7.6 comes around, I'm sticking with either a BB or the Kron. Or stick to DD play at T6.

 

Edited by Bill_Halsey

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They are not increasing DD armor they are reducing it. Which means ALL heavy cruiser can pen you with AP and German 105's secondary's will blap yah.

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Changes in the game and the ebb and flow of measures and counter measures enhance this game and keep it fresh. In a way it is like real life a little here and a little there innovation in ww2 came in slowly . Every 6 month's having to change your play style is good.  If we could all master this game in a couple of month's this game would fail.

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7 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

...proliferation of radar CA's would not be an issue if this bug was not present. 

It is not a bug.

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2 hours ago, MorbidGamer said:

They are not increasing DD armor they are reducing it. Which means ALL heavy cruiser can pen you with AP and German 105's secondary's will blap yah.

 

Edited by lemekillmister

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22 minutes ago, MorbidGamer said:

They are not increasing DD armor they are reducing it. Which means ALL heavy cruiser can pen you with AP and German 105's secondary's will blap yah.

Yeah I heard that in the video too- I think it was just a narration glitch.

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1 hour ago, NoZoupForYou said:

Part semi-rant by a raving lunatic, part urging for BBs and DDs to understand each classes current situation.  Happy Thursday.  We almost made it.

 

1. Nice camo

 

2. Do you have custom sounds for the guns? they sound diff from mine. 

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23 minutes ago, TheHolySpork said:

It is not a bug.

 Neither was stealth firing. Then WG decided they didn't like it and chose to Gaslight the issue to deny criticism.

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17 minutes ago, lemekillmister said:

I see a bunch of dudes with bad dietary habits who sit around in circles all day passing around vaporizers loaded with $200 per ounce plant matter

TOS are changing to allow heavy punishments for those who bring the game into disrepute. Jingles was worried about what this meant regarding criticism of WG, but I think this is the sort of statement they're trying to shut down. It amounts to libel, and it could get you into a lot of trouble if Wargaming's US branch decided it was going to stop playing nice.

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This may be a newbie dumb question but is there Radar in Co-Op ?I rarely play there and have never seen it

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3 minutes ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

This may be a newbie dumb question but is there Radar in Co-Op ?I rarely play there and have never seen it

You have radar if you bring a radar CA to a match. Doesn't matter if random, Coop or Ranked. Bot DD's normally smoke up but charge out into the closest seen enemy if they spot human players..

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17 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

TOS are changing to allow heavy punishments for those who bring the game into disrepute. Jingles was worried about what this meant regarding criticism of WG, but I think this is the sort of statement they're trying to shut down. It amounts to libel, and it could get you into a lot of trouble if Wargaming's US branch decided it was going to stop playing nice.

I made it amply clear that it's a vision and stated it in such a way as to be obviously intended in jest; humor. Satire isn't libelous, “satire is not defamation.” However, recognizing the high potential for some to not have the intellect to recognize and appreciate it as such, good point. 

Edited by lemekillmister
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2 minutes ago, lemekillmister said:

I made it amply clear that it's a vision and stated it in such a way as to be obviously intended in jest; humor. Satire isn't libelous.

WG may not see it the same way, or may choose not to. 

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I can certainly understand the frustration of everyone. The game is full of island hugging, radar having no fly zones. Battleships have trouble getting an attack angle, and destroyers and CVs have trouble getting in close enough to flush them out. At the same time, when they do get flushed out, they get deleted, because there are so few targets of opportunity.

It'll pass eventually, but it'll make for a frustrating summer.

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17 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

You have radar if you bring a radar CA to a match. Doesn't matter if random, Coop or Ranked. Bot DD's normally smoke up but charge out into the closest seen enemy if they spot human players..

Last night I was in a match where a Buffalo YOLOed into the cap very early on to take on an enemy Akizuki who also smoked up in the cap. The Akizuki chewed up Buffalo in about 60 seconds while the Buffalo never popped radar, so his buddies could poosibly take out the Akizuki, before he--the Buffalo--died.

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This is WG perpetual cycle of trying to fix one thing and breaking another.

In an attempt to get more people playing cruisers they introduced a new line of radar equipped cruisers.

My prediction:   As more people start playing these cruisers less will be playing DDs. As a result the battles will consist of primarily BBs and cruisers, a BB's dream. Soon after more players will get tired of becoming CIT targets and switch to playing BBs. 

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Armour, as others have said, is actually getting NERFED on DD's. And any BB player freaking about that is not doing math. Still going to be doing over 1000 damage per hit on ships with what, 16k ish HP? Meanwhile now they take more pens from cruisers AP and HE rounds with no extra pen. And that assumes that length wise pens are removed from this somehow.

I play all the classes, all the lines that are out - BB's and CV's trade the 1 and 2 spot, mostly BB's now at number 1. So, I should have the most reason to want this change, but I don't. I'd actually rather see a 15-20% damage nerf on BB AP shells which directly lowers damage against DD's, cruisers, and other BB's, Meaning BB's are deleting cruisers less, so they don't need to cower as much and can move with the BB's and hunt the DD's, while the BB is hopefully tanking damage from the other BB's that hey, when it pens will do slightly less to them.

 

And as a CV player Zoup - I've yet to actually here anything confirmed about the rework and is the only reason I'm silent. I've heard rumors, like they are going to have us fly the planes, which is in a word: Idiotic. What we have right now? Conceptually is fine, the execution is just botched. And I have been VERY vocal over recent changes. The butchering of USN that screwed it at tiers 7-9, maintained it's stomping of IJN at 4-6, and made Midway OP - again. GZ is a problem, no idea what they were thinking but HE bombs should not remove 20%+ of a battleships AP just in alpha, not even fires. That and it has the same thing that makes USN fighters OP dialed up to 11 on the 1,2,1 setup that just nukes anything in it's path. Then you have the botched fighter change to Midway that no one at Wargaming apparently realized was cancelled out by DFE, a skill they already made mandatory cause more ammo, and so USN fighters still trounce IJN's at that tier, and tier 9. Then you had them nerf Midways hanger, to which I was VERY vocal on my displeasure at the 40 plane nerf, and pointed out that a nerf to 113 was all that was needed, but that they should have just buffed Hak's hanger to around 120 because HAK RUNNING OUT OF PLANES WAS THE ISSUE. And part of that issue is the damned AA.

 

CV's need to be done in one fell swoop. Strafing needs to be massively nerfed, and make it that for x time after planes are caught by it their accuracy is debuffed (as if engaged/DFAAactive) and a DPS debuff to at least fighters for x time as well, other than maybe downing 1 or 2 of a large group, so there is still some semblance of control in fighter vs fighter beyond positioning. Fighters need to be properly balanced, IJN should have higher overall DPS so it has a better chance of drawing first blood, but suffers the higher drop off and less ammo, while USN needs a DPS nerf, effectively relying on durability, numbers, and tons of ammo. Flight groups need a rework then of any line that shows up gets an AS option, and a strike option, each with the same number of fighter groups and then whatever attack planes (So Lex being 2,x,x and 1,x,x and Sho being 2,x,x and 1,x,x). A lot of my fellow CV players don't want to hear this - we need to take a massive cut to our alpha damage. With things like manual drop, it is way too high and give the non-CV players a leg to stand on to keep OP AA. Nerf the direct damage we do, maybe up our chance to cause fire/floods a little,and then nerf AA to a reasonable level. We get to keep manual drops, which shouldn't delete ships other than maybe a very unlucky DD anymore, and we get AA cut back so that ships aren't immune to air attack even when alone, and lower tier CV's standing half a chance against higher tier ships and their AA. Another thing with alpha nerfed, is we can dial in the accuracy of DB's, namely USN's who DB's are supposed to kinda be their thing and go to attack plane, to actually have decent enough consistency to be truly viable, maybe change the HE pattern closer to the AP pattern. Score more hits, but now we can stagger attacks to make use of DoT and floods even against an Iowa or maybe stand a chance of actually hitting that Des low on HP but still has most of it's AA guns. Maybe some other tweaks like making the secondary/AA modernization 1 item again, ad a few others I think I'm forgetting, mostly in skill changes that are needed and 1-2 mechanics things.

Closes the skill gap between us longer time players and newbs or good vs not as good, makes it harder to CV snipe at low tiers, removes or at least severely limits the admittedly cancerous nature  of CV's being able to one shot even BB's instantly, maintains our ability to drop further/closer/in smoke, reduces our attrition rates, balances USN vs IJN while making them still unique, not cookie cutter as some would have it, and makes DB's finally worth something on a consistent basis.

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2 hours ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

This may be a newbie dumb question but is there Radar in Co-Op ?I rarely play there and have never seen it

Yes, enemy bots can have radar.

Yes, enemy bots that have radar do use it.

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No. I am not going to "sit back and see what happens".

 

Everyone tells destroyers to "sit back and see what happens" when a massive nerf is on the horizon. So we do. And lo, it winds up being a massive nerf. Zoup mentions RPF? Yeah, that was a miscalculation. But what about stealth fire? That was a huge nerf to nearly every destroyer above tier 5 that wasn't German.

 

Why can't destroyer players raise concerns about garbage changes like this? Why is it that only battleships can raise concerns and get something rejected before it even reaches testing, and cruisers can raise concerns about things in testing, but destroyers are expected to sit back and just suck it up?

Edited by KiyoSenkan
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