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monpetitloup

Naive question about aim-bots

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So for the first time in my experience i came across someone who put a kill on me that made me think something wasn't quite right. Generally, i was in a difficult target, unspotted, maneuvering, yet bulls-eyed (i was the only nearby target, not incidental) by a high dispersion class ship at long range.

so, my question is: IF someone were using an aim-bot, what would his statistics look like in terms of hit rates. also generally how would it be detectable by wargaming?

 

and before people jump on the denial bandwagon, this is from the wargaming website: "Auto-aim or so-called aim-bots that provide more functionality than the aim lock in the vanilla client, specifically including those that aim at the enemy's weak spots and/or lead the aim automatically"

thus, they do exist.

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If as you describe, you were maneuvering violently, aimbots wouldn't help. They can only predict movement based on current data. Thus while very simple for straight line movement, turning left and right, and constantly varying throttle setting will throw them off.

What likely is happening is that you are maneuvering somewhat predictably, i.e. your general direction is obvious, or limited by terrain or other considerations. Thus a good player can see where you are likely to move, and aim accordingly.  It's easier than many people think to predict where a DD is going to move, and even in a BB I can usually land a couple of hits.

In addition, high dispersion may actually help, since the wider spread of shells helps negate uncertainty in aiming.

Finally, RNG may just be trolling you.

If you look at the player's stats, my guess is he will be quite good, with a good amount of experience in the ship he's playing and probably DDs. Aimbots are usually used by low skill players, and even the aimbot can't make their stats good. If you were getting nailed by a potato with one high tier premium, then there might be cause for suspicion. However, one game is by no means enough to tell if a player is cheating.

Also, WG's anti-hack system tends to be on the paranoid side (several here have gotten warnings for approved mods). If he is using something, chances are he will get caught by the system pretty quick.

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Aim bots increase accuracy on stationary or constant speed/direction targets but have reduced accuracy otherwise. Play T-X co-op and you'll see exactly that. Aim-bots isn't worth the trouble in WoWS due to the much higher shell travel time than other games of this type.

To answer the question, the account of someone using aim-bot would have statistical accuracy that would be less than average in PvP modes most likely. 

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The hit rate is gated by dispersion value. A ship's chance to hit has a set statistical value in game, set the characteristic of the guns.

 

This is not CS:GO, aim bot does nothing. At most, the hit rate on certain part of the ship would approach statistical limit. 

Edited by NeutralState

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They wouldn't look different at all. Aiming is one of the most basic skills in this game, and above average are able to put effective shots downrange and even blindfire, or firing at unspotted targets, to some degree of success. The auto aim, in the hands of a good player, will serve little function beyond giving the current lead to a target, since it doesn't account for a ships speed adjustment or maneuvering at all, it's very useless unless you're firing at the most braindead of targets.

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The bots (co op) are actual aim-bots, learn to avoid their shots and you can avoid an aim-bot.

Edited by Sovereigndawg
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1 hour ago, monpetitloup said:

So for the first time in my experience i came across someone who put a kill on me that made me think something wasn't quite right. Generally, i was in a difficult target, unspotted, maneuvering, yet bulls-eyed (i was the only nearby target, not incidental) by a high dispersion class ship at long range.

People are creatures of habit. When you go dark and are no longer spotted, it's not hard to make an educated guess where you are heading, especially when near islands or other cover. I'll lock my gun on a spot while you are spotted, when I know you are about to go dark, then fire after I think you've committed to the turn. I nail a large number of people this way.

BTW, and Aim Bot would be of no use in such a case. Aim bots would help with lead, and to see how much you are turning, but they can't help at all with people wildly maneuvering.

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@monpetitloup Of course they exist and they are a cheat. It is your duty as a rule abiding played to report the suspect by their screen name to WG our community managers here so they can investigate that player. If they find that cheating is in fact happening the will ban that player.

And no researching their stats is useless! 

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It’s a question of who you believe last year there was a post of an aim assist with the same question... do they work and do they  get you more hits, the general consensus was they have limited use  so they don’t work all that well

THEN..somebody put a replay up in the post of an aim assist in action... holy crap .. they work and they  worked especially well on the angle shots... essentially they would up your hit rate by 20 to 50% from what I saw

I thought that was the end of it with Wows banning multiple players but all you have to do is google it and up pops aim bots for this patch

it’s impossible to detect from our end ,Wows has a way of detecting them and I would think they keep on top of it 

If you do a lot of port starboard to avoid is the best way to minimize hits on you

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2 hours ago, monpetitloup said:

So for the first time in my experience i came across someone who put a kill on me that made me think something wasn't quite right. Generally, i was in a difficult target, unspotted, maneuvering, yet bulls-eyed (i was the only nearby target, not incidental) by a high dispersion class ship at long range.

so, my question is: IF someone were using an aim-bot, what would his statistics look like in terms of hit rates. also generally how would it be detectable by wargaming?

 

and before people jump on the denial bandwagon, this is from the wargaming website: "Auto-aim or so-called aim-bots that provide more functionality than the aim lock in the vanilla client, specifically including those that aim at the enemy's weak spots and/or lead the aim automatically"

thus, they do exist.

There are hundreds of insanely talented players that have 70+% win rates that have an instinct most players don't have.  Even knowing where to shoot targets in smoke and from incredibly long range.  They also play the game using the vanilla client with not even cosmetic mods.  It is easy to rationalize that they are using some form of assistance. The reason they are so successful is not just their ability to time shots and predict enemy movements, but they also are incredibly hard to hit because they are rarely ever predictable in their movements, something an aimbot requires to be effective.

The better a player gets in this game, they more they realize how useless aimbots are and how little affect if any they have on someone that has skill.  You want an aim bot to work?  You have to play low tiers where players love to drive at the same speed and in a straight line.

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If you get really good with predicting, you can hit ships using WASD

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13 minutes ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

It’s a question of who you believe last year there was a post of an aim assist with the same question... do they work and do they  get you more hits, the general consensus was they have limited use  so they don’t work all that well

THEN..somebody put a replay up in the post of an aim assist in action... holy crap .. they work and they  worked especially well on the angle shots... essentially they would up your hit rate by 20 to 50% from what I saw

I thought that was the end of it with Wows banning multiple players but all you have to do is google it and up pops aim bots for this patch

it’s impossible to detect from our end ,Wows has a way of detecting them and I would think they keep on top of it 

If you do a lot of port starboard to avoid is the best way to minimize hits on you

The wider the skill gap, the more an aim bot will appear to work exceptionally well.  If you're playing better than the aim bot, you'll think it actually is a detriment.  It's all a matter of perspective based on your own personal ability.  Using an aim bot is like training wheels on a bicycle.  Skilled bicycle riders would never use them because they actually make riding worse.

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1 hour ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

THEN..somebody put a replay up in the post of an aim assist in action... holy crap .. they work and they  worked especially well on the angle shots... essentially they would up your hit rate by 20 to 50% from what I saw

Most of us have seen that video. My reaction is the opposite of yours. In fact, if you look closely, you'll see that he rarely used the actual lead indicator on the aim assist and often ignored direction. Even with the aim assist he was more accurate when ignoring it.

Most shots in the game are rather predictable, especially against ships that have slow rudder shift and large turning radius. If Time of Flight, TOF, less than rudder shift, hitting the ship is EASY. I could have a 75% hit rate with no problem if all I was shooting at were BBs.

My hit rate, depending on ship, is between 30% and 60% and that's with me firing at a huge number of DDS and blind firing at spots on the map, or into smoke. Literally, eliminate my blind firing and I'm well over 50% hit rate and that includes many really slows shells such as USN DDs and British CLs.

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6 hours ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

@monpetitloup Of course they exist and they are a cheat. It is your duty as a rule abiding played to report the suspect by their screen name to WG our community managers here so they can investigate that player. If they find that cheating is in fact happening the will ban that player.

And no researching their stats is useless! 

So done, before even posting.

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7 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

If as you describe, you were maneuvering violently, aimbots wouldn't help. They can only predict movement based on current data. Thus while very simple for straight line movement, turning left and right, and constantly varying throttle setting will throw them off.

What likely is happening is that you are maneuvering somewhat predictably, i.e. your general direction is obvious, or limited by terrain or other considerations. Thus a good player can see where you are likely to move, and aim accordingly.  It's easier than many people think to predict where a DD is going to move, and even in a BB I can usually land a couple of hits.

In addition, high dispersion may actually help, since the wider spread of shells helps negate uncertainty in aiming.

Finally, RNG may just be trolling you.

If you look at the player's stats, my guess is he will be quite good, with a good amount of experience in the ship he's playing and probably DDs. Aimbots are usually used by low skill players, and even the aimbot can't make their stats good. If you were getting nailed by a potato with one high tier premium, then there might be cause for suspicion. However, one game is by no means enough to tell if a player is cheating.

Also, WG's anti-hack system tends to be on the paranoid side (several here have gotten warnings for approved mods). If he is using something, chances are he will get caught by the system pretty quick.

Good answer. So to continue our philosophical discussion, i also see on the same Wargaming site from whence came the quote, that mods which constantly reveal the position of a player even if unspotted exist, what would the stats of someone using this mod look like and with/without aim-bot use. thanks.

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5 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

If you get really good with predicting, you can hit ships using WASD

This is shocking! As stated though, this was invisible ships using wasd.

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7 hours ago, NeutralState said:

The hit rate is gated by dispersion value. A ship's chance to hit has a set statistical value in game, set the characteristic of the guns.

 

This is not CS:GO, aim bot does nothing. At most, the hit rate on certain part of the ship would approach statistical limit. 

Thanks! So philosophically, if said player were using another type of cheat mod, for instance one revealing all player positions, what would the stats look like?

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7 hours ago, NCC81701 said:

Aim bots increase accuracy on stationary or constant speed/direction targets but have reduced accuracy otherwise. Play T-X co-op and you'll see exactly that. Aim-bots isn't worth the trouble in WoWS due to the much higher shell travel time than other games of this type.

To answer the question, the account of someone using aim-bot would have statistical accuracy that would be less than average in PvP modes most likely. 

Thanks for the answer! Just for the sake of discussion, if such a person were using a different type of mod, such as one showing player positions at all times, what would the stats look like?

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7 hours ago, Pulicat said:

They wouldn't look different at all. Aiming is one of the most basic skills in this game, and above average are able to put effective shots downrange and even blindfire, or firing at unspotted targets, to some degree of success. The auto aim, in the hands of a good player, will serve little function beyond giving the current lead to a target, since it doesn't account for a ships speed adjustment or maneuvering at all, it's very useless unless you're firing at the most braindead of targets.

Thanks for the reply! Imagine the player were using a different mod, perhaps one showing player positions at all times, what would the stats look like?

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2 minutes ago, monpetitloup said:

Thanks for the reply! Imagine the player were using a different mod, perhaps one showing player positions at all times, what would the stats look like?

I doubt that such a hack could be built as your client doesn't gets the enemy position from the server until it determines someone on your team sees the ship.

In actuality they would stand out by landing long range shots on ships that are undetected for 30+ seconds consistantly and be able to track you when you are not firing and not detected for extended periods of time.

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6 hours ago, VGLance said:

There are hundreds of insanely talented players that have 70+% win rates that have an instinct most players don't have.  Even knowing where to shoot targets in smoke and from incredibly long range.  They also play the game using the vanilla client with not even cosmetic mods.  It is easy to rationalize that they are using some form of assistance. The reason they are so successful is not just their ability to time shots and predict enemy movements, but they also are incredibly hard to hit because they are rarely ever predictable in their movements, something an aimbot requires to be effective.

The better a player gets in this game, they more they realize how useless aimbots are and how little affect if any they have on someone that has skill.  You want an aim bot to work?  You have to play low tiers where players love to drive at the same speed and in a straight line.

Thanks for the reply. This i don’t doubt, and have great experience being killed in such ways by both skilled, and lucky players. I often know when maneuvering whether I expect a lethal result or not, and often am surprised at how the result differs from my suspicion either way. The event described as i said was the first time i felt something fishy. I guess i’m wondering why any player would bother to ise a cheat if, as seems to be the wide opinion, they provide no advantage. Keep in mind others say these mods are updated regularly, if they were truly useless, why would anyone bother, both the makers of such mods and the purchasers?

Edited by monpetitloup

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1 hour ago, monpetitloup said:

Thanks for the reply! Imagine the player were using a different mod, perhaps one showing player positions at all times, what would the stats look like?

It's not really possible. It would require hacking into the WG servers themselves, as it is those servers that tell you that information about the game world. That is beyond a simple mod that affects your client on it's own.

 

Also, something to consider. Just because you were undetected when you were hit does not mean you were undetected when they shot at you. Sometimes when people shoot at you just as you're going dark, it'll still take 10-12 seconds for them to reach you. 

Edited by Pulicat

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9 hours ago, monpetitloup said:

Thanks for the reply. This i don’t doubt, and have great experience being killed in such ways by both skilled, and lucky players. I often know when maneuvering whether I expect a lethal result or not, and often am surprised at how the result differs from my suspicion either way. The event described as i said was the first time i felt something fishy. I guess i’m wondering why any player would bother to ise a cheat if, as seems to be the wide opinion, they provide no advantage. Keep in mind others say these mods are updated regularly, if they were truly useless, why would anyone bother, both the makers of such mods and the purchasers?

If you believe you were the "victim" of an aim bot user or other cheater without actually having proof, that's a performance-limiting approach.  Meaning that simply having that frame of mind will actually handicap your progression through the learning curve.  And just because something is updated regularly doesn't mean it's actually used or even has value.  Developers constantly re-write code on projects as a hobby, just to see if they can. It has no measure or relevance to the use of the tool.  Thinking it does again is another performance-limiting mindset.  If players are able to perform at such high levels without the use of any cheats, the cheats are clearly not effective and can't possibly be in use enough to impact the game.  So anyone obsessing over them is actually doing more harm to their own personal development than anything.

It's like stressing out over what foods are healthier than others.  Once you're already eating incredibly healthy, there comes a point of diminishing returns on eating trying to eat even more healthy where the stress itself does more harm than any additional potential health benefits.

In other words, let it go.  There's a reason why the overwhelming majority of people who focus on cheats or conspiracies (matchmaker screwing them over, WG giving them unfavorable RNG because they aren't paying premium, etc.) are considerably below average players.  They're looking to rationalize away their poor performance.  Don't get sucked into that mentality.

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It don't have to be a aimbot. And without knowing what ship you had and what ship shoot at you it's difficult to say what really happened. From my experience: sometimes player feel save where they are and don't care too much about manouvering. With a good guess the enemy can hit you even you went out of his spotting range or. You can improve your aiming to make some results happen more often (like citadels) but you still have to beat the RNG. I oneshotted DD's over 16km with my BB and failed to hit a Fuso sailing 7km ahead of me. Sometimes all the shell come right, sometimes you get trolled.

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