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IronMike11B4O

Buffing the Buffalo?

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Is the Buffalo gonna end up like Prinz Eugen? Where it sat in Port for over a year until it got a buff.The Buffalo is summed up as good hull decent speed and manueverability good consumable package absolute garbage range and reload speed. 

Buff the reload so I won't leave it in Port WGing. Its relaod should be close to Donskoi and Roon not Zao. 

That is all

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Um... What? No. She'd become way too powerful if you did that.

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Yeah, I don't quite understand this either.  Granted I don't have too many games in the Buffalo, but from the games I've played it kinda reminds me of a USN version of the Hindy (though not quite that good).  I've really been enjoying this ship.  Of course having 9 games and a 100% WR in it might be skewing my view of it a little.  :cap_cool:

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I'm not a fan of the Buffalo. It doesn't bring anything to the table except for 12 guns which you can only use 50% of most of the time. It's "ok", IMO, but nothing really special. 

 

Slower reload, less maneuverability and less concealment than the Tier 9 Baltimore. I actually prefer the Tier 8 Baltimore over the Tier 9 Buffalo. Just my opinion. Some people seem to really love it though :)

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I'm finding the Buffalo well balanced at Tier 9 overall. It hits hard and the reload is still decent as are the consumables. You just can't go around showing your broadside often which is true for most cruisers anyways and the play style of using islands is still valid.  You still have 6 guns forward, but now have 6 astern so kiting is even better than before. I do miss being a little more maneuverable but 3 extra good guns astern has to be balanced somehow. It does take a bit of adapting to make her work, but she does well by me after a couple of matches in her in co-op to get used to her. 

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I’m thinking she needs an agility buff to make all of her guns actually usable and not just a gimmick. Doesn’t feel special at all.

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16 minutes ago, Schindlers_Stink_Fist said:

I'm not a fan of the Buffalo. It doesn't bring anything to the table except for 12 guns which you can only use 50% of most of the time. It's "ok", IMO, but nothing really special. 

 

Slower reload, less maneuverability and less concealment than the Tier 9 Baltimore. I actually prefer the Tier 8 Baltimore over the Tier 9 Buffalo. Just my opinion. Some people seem to really love it though :)

I kinda feel the same here, but I do need more experience in the Buffalo.  But for those who like her, that's great too!

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I haven't played it yet and probably won't for a while. I don't need the next ship, I'll probably try her out sometime but it isn't one of my priorities. I haven't heard anything about it being bad though.

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4 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

I haven't played it yet and probably won't for a while. I don't need the next ship, I'll probably try her out sometime but it isn't one of my priorities. I haven't heard anything about it being bad though.

I Dev striked 3 of them in Alsace as they slowly flailed helplessy with it's mediocre DPM. I just bull rushed them then repaired the minimal damage I'm not a fan of slow firing cruisers with crappy secondaries and no torps.

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The ship is 100% balanced around the fact that it has 12x 203mm guns.  Compare that to some of Buffalo's peers.

 

New IX Buffalo 203mm x12 at 13 seconds & 15.55km range, 13.62 concealment

Old IX Baltimore 203mm x9 at 10 seconds

IX Roon 203mm x9 at 10 seconds & 17.81km, 14.4km concealment

IX Ibuki 203mm x10 at 15 seconds & 16.54km, 12.6km concealment

IX Dmitri Donskoi 180mm x12 at 12.5 seconds & 17.78km, 16.02km concealment

IX Kronshtadt 305mm x9 at 18.5 seconds & 18.19km, 16.2km concealment

IX Neptune (CL) 152mm x12 at 5 seconds & 16.54km, 13.14km concealment

IX Saint-Louis 203mm x9 at 10 seconds & 18.34km, 14.94km concealment

 

Buffalo has a balance of mass of fire, reload speed, range.  Couple this with a simple fact that Buffalo has competitive concealment, a characteristic of all USN Cruisers at Tier VIII or higher.

Also take note:

Long range CAs Roon, Saint-Louis have fewer guns and significantly worse concealment.

Ibuki has above average range, excellent concealment, but has only 10 guns to Buffalo's 12, and not only that, she has a whopping 15 second reload for fewer guns. BUT... she has 12.6km base concealment.

Dmitri Donskoi has almost the same reload as Buffalo, same rifle count of 12, and only has passable range, especially considering her BB Concealment range of 16.02km.  And oh yeah, she only has 180mm instead of 203mm guns.

Kronshtadt has big guns but at 9 rifles.  Reload is okay considering the size of the guns.  Good range, BB Concealment though.  The guns also behave like a BB at times, i.e. scatter like a BB would.

Neptune is a CL, and not only that, an RN CL with very unique strengths and weaknesses.

 

Anyway, Buffalo is fine.  Her reload can be maddening if you are forced to sharply angle and can't use all her guns, but MAN if you can fire off all 12, it's great.  The guns overall are a decent compromise, especially once you start looking at all the Tier IX Cruisers.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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34 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

I haven't played it yet and probably won't for a while. I don't need the next ship, I'll probably try her out sometime but it isn't one of my priorities. I haven't heard anything about it being bad though.

Same here (on the live server).  My impression is that 13 sec is an awful long time for a reload, but there are modules for Slot 6 that provide major boosts for both reload and agility.  Probably too soon for a buff.

 

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11 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Same here (on the live server).  My impression is that 13 sec is an awful long time for a reload, but there are modules for Slot 6 that provide major boosts for both reload and agility.  Probably too soon for a buff.

 

Agility is fine.  You can slot MBM3 to cut the base reload down to 11.4 seconds.

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58 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The ship is 100% balanced around the fact that it has 12x 203mm guns.  Compare that to some of Buffalo's peers.

 

New IX Buffalo 203mm x12 at 13 seconds & 15.55km range, 13.62 concealment

Old IX Baltimore 203mm x9 at 10 seconds

IX Roon 203mm x9 at 10 seconds & 17.81km, 14.4km concealment

IX Ibuki 203mm x10 at 15 seconds & 16.54km, 12.6km concealment

IX Dmitri Donskoi 180mm x12 at 12.5 seconds & 17.78km, 16.02km concealment

IX Kronshtadt 305mm x9 at 18.5 seconds & 18.19km, 16.2km concealment

IX Neptune (CL) 152mm x12 at 5 seconds & 16.54km, 13.14km concealment

IX Saint-Louis 203mm x9 at 10 seconds & 18.34km, 14.94km concealment

 

Buffalo has a balance of mass of fire, reload speed, range.  Couple this with a simple fact that Buffalo has competitive concealment, a characteristic of all USN Cruisers at Tier VIII or higher.

Also take note:

Long range CAs Roon, Saint-Louis have fewer guns and significantly worse concealment.

Ibuki has above average range, excellent concealment, but has only 10 guns to Buffalo's 12, and not only that, she has a whopping 15 second reload for fewer guns. BUT... she has 12.6km base concealment.

Dmitri Donskoi has almost the same reload as Buffalo, same rifle count of 12, and only has passable range, especially considering her BB Concealment range of 16.02km.  And oh yeah, she only has 180mm instead of 203mm guns.

Kronshtadt has big guns but at 9 rifles.  Reload is okay considering the size of the guns.  Good range, BB Concealment though.  The guns also behave like a BB at times, i.e. scatter like a BB would.

Neptune is a CL, and not only that, an RN CL with very unique strengths and weaknesses.

 

Anyway, Buffalo is fine.  Her reload can be maddening if you are forced to sharply angle and can't use all her guns, but MAN if you can fire off all 12, it's great.  The guns overall are a decent compromise, especially once you start looking at all the Tier IX Cruisers.

 

good reply, but what process is used by WG to balance (defines pro/cons for) each ship. They might have an algorithm feeeded with info based on historical background for ships that existed, but how this is done for paper ships?

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4 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The ship is 100% balanced around the fact that it has 12x 203mm guns.  Compare that to some of Buffalo's peers.

 

New IX Buffalo 203mm x12 at 13 seconds & 15.55km range, 13.62 concealment

Old IX Baltimore 203mm x9 at 10 seconds

IX Roon 203mm x9 at 10 seconds & 17.81km, 14.4km concealment

IX Ibuki 203mm x10 at 15 seconds & 16.54km, 12.6km concealment

IX Dmitri Donskoi 180mm x12 at 12.5 seconds & 17.78km, 16.02km concealment

IX Kronshtadt 305mm x9 at 18.5 seconds & 18.19km, 16.2km concealment

IX Neptune (CL) 152mm x12 at 5 seconds & 16.54km, 13.14km concealment

IX Saint-Louis 203mm x9 at 10 seconds & 18.34km, 14.94km concealment

 

Buffalo has a balance of mass of fire, reload speed, range.  Couple this with a simple fact that Buffalo has competitive concealment, a characteristic of all USN Cruisers at Tier VIII or higher.

Also take note:

Long range CAs Roon, Saint-Louis have fewer guns and significantly worse concealment.

Ibuki has above average range, excellent concealment, but has only 10 guns to Buffalo's 12, and not only that, she has a whopping 15 second reload for fewer guns. BUT... she has 12.6km base concealment.

Dmitri Donskoi has almost the same reload as Buffalo, same rifle count of 12, and only has passable range, especially considering her BB Concealment range of 16.02km.  And oh yeah, she only has 180mm instead of 203mm guns.

Kronshtadt has big guns but at 9 rifles.  Reload is okay considering the size of the guns.  Good range, BB Concealment though.  The guns also behave like a BB at times, i.e. scatter like a BB would.

Neptune is a CL, and not only that, an RN CL with very unique strengths and weaknesses.

 

Anyway, Buffalo is fine.  Her reload can be maddening if you are forced to sharply angle and can't use all her guns, but MAN if you can fire off all 12, it's great.  The guns overall are a decent compromise, especially once you start looking at all the Tier IX Cruisers.

 

 

New IX Buffalo 203mm x12 at 13 seconds & 15.55km range, 13.62 concealment

Old IX Baltimore 203mm x9 at 10 seconds

- Old Baltimore has better concealment, better maneuverability and better DPM

 

IX Roon 203mm x9 at 10 seconds & 17.81km, 14.4km concealment

- Roon has better DPM and can completely wreck a Buffalo at range

 

IX Ibuki 203mm x10 at 15 seconds & 16.54km, 12.6km concealment

- Ibuki has better concealment and can wreck a Buffalo at range

 

IX Dmitri Donskoi 180mm x12 at 12.5 seconds & 17.78km, 16.02km concealment

- Dimitri has accurate guns with velocity that can wreck a Buffalo at range and melt you. With IFHE will completely hose a Buffalo at range. lol

 

IX Kronshtadt 305mm x9 at 18.5 seconds & 18.19km, 16.2km concealment

- Might be faster (can't remember). Has enormous health pool. Will wreck a Buffalo at range

 

IX Neptune (CL) 152mm x12 at 5 seconds & 16.54km, 13.14km concealment

- Neptune better concealment, better DPM, better maneuverability and is faster as well I believe .

 

IX Saint-Louis 203mm x9 at 10 seconds & 18.34km, 14.94km concealment

- Guns have better velocity, range and DPM. Can also dictate engagement distance

 

 

The Buffalo, technically speaking, is lackluster at best. It has great guns that really only see their potential if you are exposing your greatest weakness....a weakness you can't cover up quickly due to "meh" maneuverability. It's guns are it's greatest asset and its biggest downfall. They are also rather slow firing with rainbow shell arcs, so all the ships you listed above, can hit a Buffalo from further away and more accurately and in some cases more often. lol 

The Buffalo is sort of a derpy average-at-best-cruiser. In reality, there's really no reason to choose one over the the other Tier 9 cruisers unless you just have an affinity for the island humping playstyle and don;t enjoy the others. 

 

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7 minutes ago, loco_max said:

good reply, but what process is used by WG to balance (defines pro/cons for) each ship. They might have an algorithm feeeded with info based on historical background for ships that existed, but how this is done for paper ships?

I don't know their process, but when you look at what they do with ships, there tends to be some sort of Give & Take.  Historical, "IRL" stuff takes a back seat to game balance.

 

Take note of the examples from IX Cruisers alone.  There's things about them that make them optimal for certain engagement scenarios and less optimal for others.

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You need to learn to abuse 27mm plating and the superior ricochet angles on the AP shells. The USN CA line is better at closer ranges and when abusing terrain/radar/AA. They play a different role and are not easily compared to the other ships in tier.

Also,  if you lose to a Kronstadt in a Buffalo you messed up.

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7 minutes ago, Schindlers_Stink_Fist said:

 

New IX Buffalo 203mm x12 at 13 seconds & 15.55km range, 13.62 concealment

Old IX Baltimore 203mm x9 at 10 seconds

- Old Baltimore has better concealment, better maneuverability and better DPM

 

IX Roon 203mm x9 at 10 seconds & 17.81km, 14.4km concealment

- Roon has better DPM and can completely wreck a Buffalo at range

 

IX Ibuki 203mm x10 at 15 seconds & 16.54km, 12.6km concealment

- Ibuki has better concealment and can wreck a Buffalo at range

 

IX Dmitri Donskoi 180mm x12 at 12.5 seconds & 17.78km, 16.02km concealment

- Dimitri has accurate guns with velocity that can wreck a Buffalo at range and melt you

 

IX Kronshtadt 305mm x9 at 18.5 seconds & 18.19km, 16.2km concealment

- Might be faster (can't remember). Has enormous health pool. Will wreck a Buffalo at range

 

IX Neptune (CL) 152mm x12 at 5 seconds & 16.54km, 13.14km concealment

- Neptune better concealment, better DPM, better maneuverability and is faster as well I believe . With IFHE will completely hose a Buffalo at range. lol

 

IX Saint-Louis 203mm x9 at 10 seconds & 18.34km, 14.94km concealment

- Guns have better velocity, range and DPM. Can also dictate engagement distance

 

 

The Buffalo, technically speaking, is lackluster at best. It has great guns that really only see their potential if you are exposing your greatest weakness....a weakness you can't cover up quickly due to "meh" maneuverability. It's guns are it's greatest asset and its biggest downfall. They are also rather slow firing with rainbow shell arcs, so all the ships you listed above, can hit a Buffalo from further away and more accurately and in some cases more often. lol 

Old IX Baltimore doesn't have 12 guns.  Mind you, I eventually liked IX Baltimore but 12 > 9.  If the fight forces a sharp angle between the 2 ships, Old IX Baltimore was better.  But you know, I know, there are situations where Buffalo can safely unmask her x12 guns and the firepower is punishing.

12 > 9

 

Roon gets smashed with Buffalo's SHS AP.  USN CA SHS is actually best used against Cruisers due to the USN CA autobounce benefit as well as these shells crushing Cruiser-grade protection.  However, if the fight is at range, Roon gets the advantage.  In such a case, what does Buffalo do?  Just go back into concealment.  Or better yet, if Buffalo was behind an island like it should, this wouldn't be a concern at all :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Dmitri Donskoi is a soft ship and gets deleted very easily.  She is of a style of play reinforced by the RU Cruiser Line as a whole.  Play at range or DIE.  She can't really hide with BB concealment, her shell arcs, high velocity shells prevent her from taking advantage of islands.  Anyways, Dmitri Donskoi isn't going to be worried about Buffalo, honestly.  She is worried about the 4-5 BBs per match looking for a Cruiser to smash, and with BB concealment ranges, she is going to have a hard time sneaking around.

 

Kronshtadt?  She's a Cruiser Killer.  She'll punish any of the Cruiser she can find if the situation is right.  She'll do the same to Zao, Hindenburg, Moskva, etc. if she can catch their sides.  She PUNISHES CRUISERS THAT MAKE A MISTAKE.  Oh there's one thing.  Buffalo has a 27mm bow and she can bounce up to 380mm AP.  What size guns does Kronshtadt have? :Smile_glasses: Know your enemies.  There's also the thing that Kronshtadt is easy to spot a long ways off.  Buffalo has better concealment and can go dark.  There's also the matter that Buffalo can hide behind islands and lob shells, so Kronshtadt can't do a direct engagement against such a positioned USN CA.  With Kronshtadt & D.Donskoi having BB concealment, they have to worry a lot more about BB gunfire.

 

Neptune?

1.  You can bounce RN CL AP no problems.

2.  RADAR.

3.  USN CA SHS AP shells.

4.  Citadel City or flush the RN CL out of smoke.

USN Radar Cruisers at high tier are meant for dealing with smoked out ships.

 

Saint-Louis?  She cannot dictate her engagement with Buffalo if Buffalo can say, "No" by going into concealment, or if Buffalo was being played right to begin with, fighting from behind islands.  Saint-Louis cannot dictate her engagement with Cruisers when her own concealment is awful.

 

Got any more?

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49 minutes ago, Schindlers_Stink_Fist said:

 

IX Ibuki 203mm x10 at 15 seconds & 16.54km, 12.6km concealment

- Ibuki has better concealment and can wreck a Buffalo at range

 

What the [edited] are you on, Ibuki cant wreck a T8 CA, let alone a T9 one, that thing is horrible and still the single worst T9 ship in the game short of the Essex.

 

Also, RN CL's don't have HE, so IFHE does nothing for them

Edited by ryuukei8569

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2 minutes ago, ryuukei8569 said:

What the [edited] are you on, Ibuki cant wreck a T8 CA, let alone a T9 one, that thing is horrible and still the single worst T9 ship in the game short of the Essex.

 

Also, RN CL's don't have HE, so IFHE does nothing for them

 

The Ibuki has solid guns. Not sure what you're smoking.

 

The IFHE was a format error, I added it to the wrong line.

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33 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Old IX Baltimore doesn't have 12 guns.  Mind you, I eventually liked IX Baltimore but 12 > 9.  If the fight forces a sharp angle between the 2 ships, Old IX Baltimore was better.  But you know, I know, there are situations where Buffalo can safely unmask her x12 guns and the firepower is punishing.

12 > 9

 

Roon gets smashed with Buffalo's SHS AP.  USN CA SHS is actually best used against Cruisers due to the USN CA autobounce benefit as well as these shells crushing Cruiser-grade protection.  However, if the fight is at range, Roon gets the advantage.  In such a case, what does Buffalo do?  Just go back into concealment.  Or better yet, if Buffalo was behind an island like it should, this wouldn't be a concern at all :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Dmitri Donskoi is a soft ship and gets deleted very easily.  She is of a style of play reinforced by the RU Cruiser Line as a whole.  Play at range or DIE.  She can't really hide with BB concealment, her shell arcs, high velocity shells prevent her from taking advantage of islands.  Anyways, Dmitri Donskoi isn't going to be worried about Buffalo, honestly.  She is worried about the 4-5 BBs per match looking for a Cruiser to smash, and with BB concealment ranges, she is going to have a hard time sneaking around.

 

Kronshtadt?  She's a Cruiser Killer.  She'll punish any of the Cruiser she can find if the situation is right.  She'll do the same to Zao, Hindenburg, Moskva, etc. if she can catch their sides.  She PUNISHES CRUISERS THAT MAKE A MISTAKE.  Oh there's one thing.  Buffalo has a 27mm bow and she can bounce up to 380mm AP.  What size guns does Kronshtadt have? :Smile_glasses: Know your enemies.  There's also the thing that Kronshtadt is easy to spot a long ways off.  Buffalo has better concealment and can go dark.  There's also the matter that Buffalo can hide behind islands and lob shells, so Kronshtadt can't do a direct engagement against such a positioned USN CA.  With Kronshtadt & D.Donskoi having BB concealment, they have to worry a lot more about BB gunfire.

 

Neptune?

1.  You can bounce RN CL AP no problems.

2.  RADAR.

3.  USN CA SHS AP shells.

4.  Citadel City or flush the RN CL out of smoke.

USN Radar Cruisers at high tier are meant for dealing with smoked out ships.

 

Saint-Louis?  She cannot dictate her engagement with Buffalo if Buffalo can say, "No" by going into concealment, or if Buffalo was being played right to begin with, fighting from behind islands.  Saint-Louis cannot dictate her engagement with Cruisers when her own concealment is awful.

 

Got any more?

 

12 > 9 is only true when you are using all 12. However, in all actuality, you are probably using 6.....6 slower firing guns. Don't act like you are able to fire 12 of the Buffalo's guns a majority of the time, that simply is not true unless you are parked behind an island and your team is spotting for you. 

 

Donskoi gets deleted easily? A kiting Donskoi would not be deleted "easily" by a rainbow arc firing Buffalo. Good luck with your floaty guns while the Donskoi hammers you repeatedly. Same situation with the Saint Louis. Go ahead and show your broadside so you can fire your 12 guns....then just wait for the AP to pummel your side. You aren't hitting a Roon at range either. You probably aren't hitting much at all with USN cruiser guns beyond 14km...unless its a bow on BB.

 

And yes, rush the Neptune in smoke. Hopefully your radar has special abilities to pick up torpedoes. And if you do detect the torpedoes, good luck deflecting the AP that will hammer you while you torpedobeat OR good luck when you finally get back on track to finding the Neptune, right? Isn't that the argument you use for the Buffalo...the ability to use concealment?

Face it, the Buffalo really has nothing going for it outside of 12 guns that can't all be used most of the time. The best thing about the Buffalo is that it leads to the Des Moines. lol

 

Can you actually point our ONE thing the Buffalo has going for it outside of 12 guns? I'd really be interested because I really wanted to love the Buffalo since USN Cruisers are probably my favorite ships.

 

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1 hour ago, Schindlers_Stink_Fist said:

 

New IX Buffalo 203mm x12 at 13 seconds & 15.55km range, 13.62 concealment

Old IX Baltimore 203mm x9 at 10 seconds

- Old Baltimore has better concealment, better maneuverability and better DPM

 

IX Roon 203mm x9 at 10 seconds & 17.81km, 14.4km concealment

- Roon has better DPM and can completely wreck a Buffalo at range

 

IX Ibuki 203mm x10 at 15 seconds & 16.54km, 12.6km concealment

- Ibuki has better concealment and can wreck a Buffalo at range

 

IX Dmitri Donskoi 180mm x12 at 12.5 seconds & 17.78km, 16.02km concealment

- Dimitri has accurate guns with velocity that can wreck a Buffalo at range and melt you. With IFHE will completely hose a Buffalo at range. lol

 

IX Kronshtadt 305mm x9 at 18.5 seconds & 18.19km, 16.2km concealment

- Might be faster (can't remember). Has enormous health pool. Will wreck a Buffalo at range

 

IX Neptune (CL) 152mm x12 at 5 seconds & 16.54km, 13.14km concealment

- Neptune better concealment, better DPM, better maneuverability and is faster as well I believe .

 

IX Saint-Louis 203mm x9 at 10 seconds & 18.34km, 14.94km concealment

- Guns have better velocity, range and DPM. Can also dictate engagement distance

 

 

The Buffalo, technically speaking, is lackluster at best. It has great guns that really only see their potential if you are exposing your greatest weakness....a weakness you can't cover up quickly due to "meh" maneuverability. It's guns are it's greatest asset and its biggest downfall. They are also rather slow firing with rainbow shell arcs, so all the ships you listed above, can hit a Buffalo from further away and more accurately and in some cases more often. lol 

The Buffalo is sort of a derpy average-at-best-cruiser. In reality, there's really no reason to choose one over the the other Tier 9 cruisers unless you just have an affinity for the island humping playstyle and don;t enjoy the others. 

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Gonna have to second all the agility buff arguments.

She drives like a friggin truck... feels uncharacteristic of the American line.

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5 hours ago, IronMike11B4O said:

Is the Buffalo gonna end up like Prinz Eugen? Where it sat in Port for over a year until it got a buff.The Buffalo is summed up as good hull decent speed and manueverability good consumable package absolute garbage range and reload speed. 

Buff the reload so I won't leave it in Port WGing. Its relaod should be close to Donskoi and Roon not Zao. 

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what do you not understand about 12 SUPER HEAVY SHELLS to a broadside? these are guns that can EASILY get 5K+ salvos on BATTLESHIPS and youre wanting it to have either 12 or 10 second reload stock? you must be smoking some powerful stuff if you think that'll ever happen

 

Edited by tcbaker777

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15 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

what do you not understand about 12 SUPER HEAVY SHELLS to a broadside? these are guns that can EASILY get 5K+ salvos on BATTLESHIPS and youre wanting it to have either 12 or 10 second reload stock? you must be smoking some powerful stuff if you think that'll ever happen

 

I just Dev Striked 3 in one game in the Alsace as they slowly very slowly shot at me then I healed back up to 90% health and drove on my merry way. It's so inferior to the other Cruisers at tier 9 other than Ibuki it's comical. Also I only smoke the best Indica and Kush as i live in WA state. Also show me your sweet sweet broadside getting all 12 guns on me, I double dog dare you. That's a paddlin

Edited by IronMike11B4O

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