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Stauffenberg44

Bring on HMS Vanguard FFS!

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5b1728001a421_Vanguard3.thumb.jpg.856a259053fcc425d145083116842a10.jpg

Yes here she is again to look upon and wonder.

With all the clever nuances with tech tree ships and their clone sister premium spawns, one wonders why WG seems to be stymied with this ship. I've read all the pros and cons Let's see if we can find a way to make her viable yeah? Post your comments. How might she appear... perhaps with 16" guns?

History

Spoiler

HMS Vanguard (23) a British Battleship was being built late into World War 2 and when the war in Europe ended come May of 1945, the decision was to complete her in case the war in the Pacific against the Empire of Japan dragged on. As such, Vanguard was launched in 1944 but not formally commissioned until August 9th, 1946. She was completed larger than the preceding King George V battleship - heavier, bigger and with greatly increased armament capability. The King George V-class of battleships each held 14-inch main guns and, with the development and use of 16-inch guns by the US and IJN, the King George V-class was suddenly viewed as under-armed. The British Admiralty looked at 16-inch guns but the time needed for development and manufacture of such new rifles made the decision mute.

Britain had a number of 15-inch guns available so it seemed the best fit for a new design with the war winding down in Europe. Many publications originally indicate the 15-inch guns were removed from HMS Courageous and HMS Glorious and that these vessels were then converted to aircraft carriers. However, the Admiralty kept strict documentation on each gun and new reviews have come to indicate the guns came from five battleships and one monitor: two from HMS Queen Elizabeth, two from the HMS Ramillies, one from HMS Royal Sovereign, one from HMS Resolution, one from the monitor HMS Erebus, and the last from the famous HMS Warspite.

The 15-inch guns were doubled across four turret emplacements, these held as two forward and two aft installations. The new Vanguard had 16 x 5.25-inch heavy secondary guns for close-in fighting, these situated as 8 x double mounts, four fitted to port side and four along the starboard. The Vanguard had the most anti-aircraft guns onboard than any other ship in the British Navy, counting 73 x 40mm Bofors type cannons. Despite this formidable array, the Vanguard would never fire her guns in anger throughout the remainder of the war.

In 1947, she became a Royal Yacht, taking the Royal Family of King George VI to South Africa. A poor historic note for a mighty ship was in having a badminton net set up on her battle deck for a bit of Royal Family fun. Nevertheless, she did participate in a number of NATO duties during the Cold War before going into reserve.

Some in her crew had requested Vanguard be saved as a museum ship since she was the last British battleship build and the last such class of vessel built anywhere in the world. The gesture was not received fondly and she ultimately sold for scrapping in 1960, bringing an end to the rather quiet career of the powerful HMS Vanguard.

from https://www.militaryfactory.com/ships/detail.asp?ship_id=HMS-Vanguard-23

5b17283d2a6b6_Vanguard2.thumb.jpg.ffacbe52f59247b59d432d8fd0e6a122.jpg

5b17291f5617f_Vanguard4.jpg.1e79d2f2a57ab8fab8ed4ea36b354c99.jpg

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If she had 16" guns she wouldn't be Vanguard, not really.

As for the game, she'd fit in as a tier 8 IMO. It's basically KGV / Monarch's armor and Warspite's guns on a 30 knot hull with massive AA. I'd drive her.

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3 minutes ago, Lert said:

If she had 16" guns she wouldn't be Vanguard, not really.

As for the game, she'd fit in as a tier 8 IMO. It's basically KGV / Monarch's armor and Warspite's guns on a 30 knot hull with massive AA. I'd drive her.

Well many of those paper ships wouldn't be real ships whatever you put on them. And there you go, they exist.

Edit: and I am not against paper ships, at all.

Edited by Stauffenberg44

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4 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

Well many of those paper ships wouldn't be real ships whatever you put on them. And there you go, they exist.

Edit: and I am not against paper ships, at all.

Me neither. But if you're going to put a historical ship in the game, especially as premium, I personally would rather they be as historically accurate as they can be. Which in Vanguard's case, would mean 4x 2 15" BL Mk I and 73 barrels of Bofors 40mm AA.

That's just my opinion though.

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Just now, Lert said:

Me neither. But if you're going to put a historical ship in the game, especially as premium, I personally would rather they be as historically accurate as they can be. Which in Vanguard's case, would mean 4x 2 15" BL Mk I and 73 barrels of Bofors 40mm AA.

That's just my opinion though.

Oh I tend to agree with you. I just wanted to hear options.

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5 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

 I just wanted to hear options.

Oh I think 410 dps AA at 3.5km stock would be enough 'flavor', especially since Bismarck / Tirpitz already show that 4x2 15" can work well at tier 8. Vanguard would have decentish reload and good accuracy (far superior to German) to balance her out I think. Imagine her with a full AA build and DFAA.

But I'd be happy to hear other opinions / options.

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1 minute ago, Lert said:

Oh I think 410 dps AA at 3.5km stock would be enough 'flavor', especially since Bismarck / Tirpitz already show that 4x2 15" can work well at tier 8. Vanguard would have decentish reload and good accuracy (far superior to German) to balance her out I think.

But I'd be happy to hear other opinions / options.

Well you are perfectly aware that our KM Gneisenau, though there were plans to replace these weapons with six 15" guns in twin turrets, it didnt actually happen.

The RN actively considered giving Vanguard 16" guns...

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Just now, Stauffenberg44 said:

Well you are perfectly aware that our KM Gneisenau, though there were plans to replace these weapons with six 15" guns in twin turrets, it didnt actually happen.

Gneisenau is also not a premium. Premium is the only way I think Vanguard is going to be in the game, since WG has elected in their - ... eternal wisdom not to make her the tech tree tier 8.

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Given how Vanguard has similar armor to KGV plus the addition of a waterline splinter belt alongside the heaviest tonnage of any IRL RN BB, she's more than capable enough of a hull to be at Tier 8. According to Friedman's book concerning British BB's Vanguard's speed was 31.57 knots at 45,720 tons and 30.28 knots at 51,070 tons, so 31.5 knots it is. Her AA is extremely potent similarly to RN higher tier BB's (models lifted from Vanguard lol) as Lert has pointed out so again, not an issue. 

If she has Warspite shells + Superchargers + great accuracy + potentially a reload buff, it could make her relatively old guns work fine at such a tier.

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1 minute ago, Lert said:

Gneisenau is also not a premium. Premium is the only way I think Vanguard is going to be in the game, since WG has elected in their - ... eternal wisdom not to make her the tech tree tier 8.

point. ;)

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1 minute ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

Well you are perfectly aware that our KM Gneisenau, though there were plans to replace these weapons with six 15" guns in twin turrets, it didnt actually happen.

The RN actively considered giving Vanguard 16" guns...

Vanguard was never considered with 16 inch guns, she was historically a project to get a modern battleship in the water with currently available technology, so 16 inch guns were automatically off the table. 

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Just now, Dunk_Master_Flex said:

Vanguard was never considered with 16 inch guns, she was historically a project to get a modern battleship in the water with currently available technology, so 16 inch guns were automatically off the table. 

My riposte earlier was that no paper ship that we have (and no complaints mind) has these constraints--why should Vanguard. The RN wanted 16" guns on her; my suggestions was simply that if 16" guns is what it takes to make her viable and existant in WoWs, then bring it on and call her a paper ship I don't care really. ;)

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23 minutes ago, Lert said:

If she had 16" guns she wouldn't be Vanguard, not really.

As for the game, she'd fit in as a tier 8 IMO. It's basically KGV / Monarch's armor and Warspite's guns on a 30 knot hull with massive AA. I'd drive her.

I would play that as well. I don't think I would keep it after unlocking T9 since I already have Alabama and Tirpitz, but it sounds like a fun grind.

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I like the idea of a special def aa for her just like the Hood. As long it has the good gun values from the Warspite/Hood it would make a great premium.(Also the mega heal...)

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As built, the Vanguard is really just a Warspite or Queen Elizabeth class battleship with better armor and speed.  The main battery is exactly the same.  That puts Vanguard at something of a disadvantage as it's in the generation of battleships like the Iowa's South Dakota class, or Yamato's.  Without the planned 16" battery it's just not going to cut the mustard.

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