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Armor change to DD video by Noster

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As a BB main:

1) I will not switch ammo types.

2) I will still shoot at DDs.

Why?  Well, on point 1, 30 seconds is too long.  The DD may very well not even be visible by the time I've changed ammo type.  The skill to cut that time in half is broken and only works if all guns are loaded and ready to fire.  It is very common to have guns out of sync on BBs.  On point 2, this change doesn't change much.  I never shoot at DDs because I am hoping to get a penetration.  I shoot at them to put pressure on them and do damage, which I fully expect to be over pen damage.

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Without watching the vid on my phone right now, what's the point of it?  What kind of change?

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2 minutes ago, BullHalsey said:

Without watching the vid on my phone right now, what's the point of it?  What kind of change?

Talking about the ST change to Tier X DD plating from 19mm to 13mm.  This would cause shells of 380mm or larger to always overpen no matter what angle they hit at, barring being armed by hitting water first, which is an edge case.

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4 minutes ago, BullHalsey said:

Without watching the vid on my phone right now, what's the point of it?  What kind of change?

Lowering armor, to get more ovepens if you are a BB... trying to force BB to switch to HE

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1 minute ago, Helstrem said:

Talking about the ST change to Tier X DD plating from 19mm to 13mm.  This would cause shells of 380mm or larger to always overpen no matter what angle they hit at, barring being armed by hitting water first, which is an edge case.

In that case I disagree; I believe destroyers have been given plenty of advantages beyond reality to make them competitive already.  You can already be shot full broadside in a destroyer point blank in front of a battleship, sail right on at full speed and torp [edited] him in the face.  Just one isolated circumstance of course but I don't think they need any more advantages than they already have, especially for a ship that is the most important type in any match.  Screw with that and you will significantly impact the entire game.

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Hitting a DD with BB AP already results in over pens and that’s if you hit the ship in the first place. Why do we need to change the armor scheme if the main objective of said change has already been accomplished? It’s very redundant. Also, T10 ships are the end of the line ships so you should already know how to play them to a certain extent. I must be missing something here because to be quite honest I don’t see any DDs getting obliterated by BB AP at all.

Edited by LiaoXanLan

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1 minute ago, LiaoXanLan said:

Hitting a DD with BB AP already results in over pens and that’s if you hit the ship in the first place. Why do we need to change the armor scheme if the main objective of said change has already been accomplished? It’s very redundant. Also, T10 ships are the end of the line ships so you should already know how to play them to a certain extent. I must be missing something here because to be quite honest I don’t see any DDs getting obliterated by BB AP at all.

I wager because they're trying to increase player base.  The fastest, most invisible shoot em up ships are destroyers and a good across the board draw.  New players don't like when battleship armor piercing rounds have the temerity to actually Explode occasionally on impact with something hard, so we have to remove that possibility altogether.

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It sounds like from what he is saying that tier 10 is going to be tested and if it works out armor changes to other tier destroyers will follow. It does not sound like only tier 10 destroyers will get armor changes in the long run. 

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Ernie Evans does not support this change.  Besides, weren't deepwater torps enough?  Now a Battleship has far less chance of avoiding torps than ever before with those things around, when he can even SEE the DD, but that's not enough.  No, now his AP rounds need to be neutered as well when he succeeds in hitting back.  This is not good for the game.

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So now any time a BB thinks a destroyer may be near, he's likely to switch to HE.  Even MORE HE firing battleships.  I'm telling you, this is going too far.

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32 minutes ago, BullHalsey said:

Without watching the vid on my phone right now, what's the point of it?  What kind of change?

he is cautiously optimistic about the change in DD armor from 19mm to 13mm at tier10

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2 minutes ago, Bronk said:

So... No change to Brit bb play style I see.

No we'll have all BBs firing like cruisers now; HE only until later when they can get some good AP hits closer in.  Time to buff the crappy German battleship HE!

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2 minutes ago, Berlimawurst said:

he is cautiously optimistic about the change in DD armor from 19mm to 13mm at tier10

Well Notser is wrong.  What does this mean for the Khab?  Is it the same for that silly thing as well?

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On the downside for battleships occasional '33's will become '10's as it's overpen only.

On the upside for battleships everything with 100-105mm secondary guns will go from 0 damage to penetrating the DD's hulls. That's ships including Bismarck, FdG, Alsace, Richelieu etc.

On the further downside for most destroyers they will now be penetrated by no-IFHE Akizuki's (though that's a plus for Akizuki...) and will also be penetrated instead of autobouncing 203mm AP - possibly still eating '33's from it, or at least 400-600 damage overpens instead of autobounces.

On the further further downside for German destroyers their 128mm guns require ~21mm of armor thickness to arm, which is most 19mm plates at a slight angle to increase pass-through thickness, if destroyers get 13mm plates they will be practically immune to >127mm destroyer AP '33's. That puts a DD on DD fight into a purely 1-dimensional HE arena which greatly disadvantages some of them.

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I see all the BB mains are out in force. Time for you guys to learn how to switch out ammo, like cruisers and destroyers have to do. Now, you do have a point that it takes too long, however, there is a commander skill that helps with this, so I am not entirely sure your arguments are valid.

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5 minutes ago, mofton said:

On the downside for battleships occasional '33's will become '10's as it's overpen only.

On the upside for battleships everything with 100-105mm secondary guns will go from 0 damage to penetrating the DD's hulls. That's ships including Bismarck, FdG, Alsace, Richelieu etc.

On the further downside for most destroyers they will now be penetrated by no-IFHE Akizuki's (though that's a plus for Akizuki...) and will also be penetrated instead of autobouncing 203mm AP - possibly still eating '33's from it, or at least 400-600 damage overpens instead of autobounces.

On the further further downside for German destroyers their 128mm guns require ~21mm of armor thickness to arm, which is most 19mm plates at a slight angle to increase pass-through thickness, if destroyers get 13mm plates they will be practically immune to >127mm destroyer AP '33's. That puts a DD on DD fight into a purely 1-dimensional HE arena which greatly disadvantages some of them.

Thanks for the great points; these singular ideas generally have much further reaching implications.

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I'd add to Mofton that occasional "33s" aren't so bad in perspective.  Combine our statements here and like I said it is game changing to screw with the destroyers any more.  You want to give them more advantages?  Nerf radar ranges slightly or something far less impactful.  This is liable to turn the whole thing on its head.

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Look at all the battleship mains whining.

 

But no. For the record, as a destroyer player, this is an awful change that is detrimental to the game.

 

The issue WG should be trying to fix is the instance where battleship AP overpens the destroyer and then pens the destroyer. A single shell exploding twice for more damage than it should be doing. This happens a lot.

Edited by KiyoSenkan
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9 minutes ago, _Rumple_ said:

I see all the BB mains are out in force. Time for you guys to learn how to switch out ammo, like cruisers and destroyers have to do. Now, you do have a point that it takes too long, however, there is a commander skill that helps with this, so I am not entirely sure your arguments are valid.

As I stated, switching ammo is the wrong choice for a BB because there is no way to ensure you'll even have a shot on the DD in 30 seconds.  It is better to go for overpen damage sooner rather than wasting time switching to HE which may not even be fired at the DD.

Sure, switch to HE if you know that you'll be shooting a DD, such as when a DD is the last surviving enemy, but in general, no, stick with AP, take your overpens on DDs and do what you can.

This changes nothing for BB play.  It makes DDs a lot more comfortable charging a BB though.

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Yeah lately I have just had to shake my head and disagree with Zoup over and over. I used to really like his videos and enjoyed them but no so much anymore. This one just made me go :Smile_facepalm:.

There is no problem with the current BB AP vs DD mechanics outside of the bug/flaw that sometimes allows a double damage shell (ie; over pen and pen from  same one). THAT is what needs to be fixed. Not making all BB AP overpen regardless of angle. This is a huge buff to DD's they do not need. As was said above they already have so many advantages and tools why should they get even more help?

IF you choose to play DD you accept you are in the most fragile class of ship in the game. To offset that you are super stealthy, extremely fast, you have wall-o-torps, HE spam, smoke, engine boost, etc... Your trade off is weak armor and low HP. So if you F up and let a BB blap you then you will get seriously damaged or deleted. THAT is balance Zoup not making a BB reload it's guns because a DD pops up when it takes 30 sec +/- to do so.  The balance is the DD is fast and sneaky with those torps and HE spam making it hard to hit and or even see. BB's are sluggish and more easily seen with very long reloads. Their advantage and what balances them against all their weaknesses is their health pool, armor, and devastating power of their guns and specifically the AP.

This is a stupid change and is a huge buff to DD and a nerf to BB that is not needed. Just fix the actual problem with the double damage shell bug and things are fine.

This will make BB's even less likely to push forward until at least the DD's are gone. It is going to make even more BB player's shoot nothing but HE which is not their best weapon (outside BRN) so prepare for all the "stupid potato BB shooting HE" comments and complaints to intensify now.

I personally will not shoot HE from a BB but for rare circumstances and in BRN BB at times. BB's should shoot AP and wreck stuff with it and that includes DD. I am not going to try and swap to HE just because a DD pops up. It will get AP. If WG wants to lessen the effectiveness of that AP to help the DD nothing I can do. I am certainly not changing to HE just for a DD when my reload is around 30 seconds. Screw that.

Score one for the DD whiners. They got their BB AP nerf. :Smile_great:

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1 minute ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Look at all the battleship mains whining.

 

But no. For the record, as a destroyer player, this is an awful change that is detrimental to the game.

@BullHalsey is whining, but you won't find any whines in my posts.  Stating I won't change ammo isn't a whine, it is an explanation.  Rationally it just doesn't make sense usually.  As for the change, it is what it is and it can be dealt with.

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14 minutes ago, mofton said:

On the downside for battleships occasional '33's will become '10's as it's overpen only.

On the upside for battleships everything with 100-105mm secondary guns will go from 0 damage to penetrating the DD's hulls. That's ships including Bismarck, FdG, Alsace, Richelieu etc.

On the further downside for most destroyers they will now be penetrated by no-IFHE Akizuki's (though that's a plus for Akizuki...) and will also be penetrated instead of autobouncing 203mm AP - possibly still eating '33's from it, or at least 400-600 damage overpens instead of autobounces.

On the further further downside for German destroyers their 128mm guns require ~21mm of armor thickness to arm, which is most 19mm plates at a slight angle to increase pass-through thickness, if destroyers get 13mm plates they will be practically immune to >127mm destroyer AP '33's. That puts a DD on DD fight into a purely 1-dimensional HE arena which greatly disadvantages some of them.

So basically it’s a really bad idea to mess with DD armor in the first place to which I agree with. There’s enough advantages going for DDs that a competent player can take full advantage of. No need to change.

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2 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

This will make BB's even less likely to push forward until at least the DD's are gone. It is going to make even more BB player's shoot nothing but HE which is not their best weapon (outside BRN) so prepare for all the "stupid potato BB shooting HE" comments and complaints to intensify now.

The change is so slight, almost all BB hits on DDs were already 10%s.  Statements like this are gross overreactions.  Keep using AP, keep shooting DDs with AP.  You'll still get kills on them.  Hit a DD with 4-6 BB AP rounds and watch them scurry away into the shadows in a panic, overpens or not.

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