Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
Gigs_Up

Radar, Planes and not so experienced players

10 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

0
[YRSP-]
Members
1 post
4,316 battles

I've spent the last 4 months (since game install) working my way up the line of US Destroyers. Before the latest update, I've had to deal with intermittent radar detection by the CAs whos Commanders had acquired this radar skill and by air, (BBs equipped with planes and the CVs) I've learned to deal with each of these scenarios (or a combination thereof), my survival rate was acceptable as my engine boost and AA gave me a slim chance and just before the last update, I was managing about a 70% survival rate escaping with 10-50% of my ship's HP remaining and was ok with that. In fact, I was starting to get pretty good at it and it was fun.

I want to throw in a little banter about inexperienced or novice players who find it necessary to hide or snipe the enemy BBs, CAs and DDs from the maximum firing range of their ships and as some of you might have figured out on your own, hitting a DD or possibly a CA from that range (12-15k out) is quite difficult.

As a DD Captain, I'm required (or abliged) to spot, cap, harass and sink the enemy if possible.., giving those ships with the high caliber guns a target and opportunity to do something that my guns would take 30-40-50 hits (or more depending on HP of enemy ship) out of the 100 or so shots with my guns I'd have to take in order to survive a one on one battle with a CA or the DD who is slithering through the waters like a snake (that's me too!) My torpedoes are about 5-15% accurate with a max of 1-3 torpedos out of 10 hitting the intended target (15% is on a good day and a good team which is few and far between) as with all good Captains we should not sail in a straight line. I did hit a BB once with about 7 torps, got a "Devastating Strike" badge and just after that I got an "It's only a Flesh Wound" badge cause his/her guns took me out in one salvo at about 2.5k just before my torps hit her. Another time I was thrown in a T-6-7-8 match and managed a Kraken with 6 ships sunk, not bragging but like to shout out to all those CAs and BBs who were hitting those ships hard with shell fire just before my torps finished them off, in fact I'd give them at least 3 kills if I could and take away my Kraken... good job guys/gals... »Ò¿Ó«... GG that was, all working together.

5b12086c93a9e_Gigs_UpStats.thumb.jpg.17c8cf22485c862f3646d1d5da6e04ae.jpg5b12098b76e87_WOWQueue.thumb.jpg.f5a670704af80a3a4abe5fd2bb87c579.jpg

The CAs are hunting in packs of 2-5 and when 1 radar runs out, another will start up till the DD is sunk... approaching a flag area is a certain failure on the part of the DD, flanking doesn't work either. Trying to figure a new way to be competitive again and the answer is eluding me except to say WOW has stacked the deck against the DDs. I'm losing anywhere from 5-50k in credits 90% of the time and let's not mention the flags, camo that was wasted as well as my stats are tanking and are worse than the dismal threshold I've been able to muster. Smoke is rendered useless in this case and finding an island a 1/2 a click away is futile as there are about 20 guns on your back at any one time

I thank WOW for the Super Container I received containing 7 days free Premium, without it, I wouldn't have come close to getting the Fletcher. I had to purchase another 3 days to get enough to buy the ship and cannibalized some of my other ships to get the upgrades. I could buy more (Premium, Dabloons...) but will not waste money to become super easy targets for the CAs. WOW needs to go back to the drawing board and figure out how they're going to fix this. Limit the number of radars in a match, put all the CAs in their own match and let them eat each other... I don't know but they need to do something... I'm working to obtain the Commander Skill that increases my HP from 17,100 to I think 21,000 but even that would not help and I'd be giving the RED CAs more HP to put into their coffers.

Not having fun anymore, I'll have to start back at T-3 to mature a line of BBs or CAs... but they'll (WOW) will change something then too... I'm sure of it, making it more difficult in gameplay without having to buy something... Not afraid to spend a little money but not throwing it away either...

One more concern, the Karma system is broken and needs to be evaluated again. I have given both compliments and reported bad behavior and though it takes only one person to give a compliment, it should take two or more Captains to take away a Karma Point, I actually had a Captain on the Red Team give me a bad report because I sank him as well as the taunting and verbal abuse I received in chat during the match, I blocked him altogether it got so bad.

I like running DDs and not really wanting to change and if I did... it would be on my terms and of my choice...

As you can see, I'm not killing it and don't use any illegal mods, but I was having fun. Now I'm whining and I'm done with WOW if they don't fix this soon... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38
[HARU]
Beta Testers
76 posts
5,355 battles

Since the cleveland is new, everybody wants to play it. For the next month DD play at high tiers will be harder, then maybe it will ease up. I recommend that you play BBs now to delete the cruisers. More fun that way.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
251
[AAA]
Members
1,082 posts
11,915 battles

Higher Tier DD play is much more difficult as you have discovered due to better players, radar, etc.

1. Capping early means nothing. Sinking ships is the game.

2 The priority of the dd is survival, spotting, and torping. Remeber Russians have small cruisers not dds. The Fletcher was a beast. I still play it. Can it knife fight. You bet. Best in tier inside 5 km. But it will take a ton of damage. Don't cap early. Harass the cap with torps. I got tons of kills throwing torps through the cap or at smoke. Spot the CA or BB. Torp them. Call out targets fall back. in the end game go back and cap. It's a different game t8 and up.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8,762
[SALVO]
Members
24,191 posts
24,546 battles
1 hour ago, wstugamd said:

Higher Tier DD play is much more difficult as you have discovered due to better players, radar, etc.

1. Capping early means nothing. Sinking ships is the game.

2 The priority of the dd is survival, spotting, and torping. Remeber Russians have small cruisers not dds. The Fletcher was a beast. I still play it. Can it knife fight. You bet. Best in tier inside 5 km. But it will take a ton of damage. Don't cap early. Harass the cap with torps. I got tons of kills throwing torps through the cap or at smoke. Spot the CA or BB. Torp them. Call out targets fall back. in the end game go back and cap. It's a different game t8 and up.

I agree that capping early isn't that important.  OTOH, it is a good thing to not allow the enemy team to take a cap unopposed either.  The way I see it, you don't want to die in a DD to forcibly take a cap, nor do you want to die in a DD try to prevent that cap from being taken.  However, it is good if you can make it difficult for it to be taken, particularly if you have a lot of support.  There's no point in trying to take or prevent from being taken when you're unsupported and you're outnumbered, etc.  Discretion is the better part of valor.  

I don't particularly like getting into DD vs DD brawls.  It's not that I can't do it.  It's that, like you point out, they tend to be very painful unless you have some advantage, like a lot of heavy ship support or maybe you're double teaming a single enemy DD.  Something that means that the enemy DD will die a LOT more quickly.

I also agree about using torps to try to get easy DD kills on caps, whether the enemy DDs are in smoke or not.  Frankly, these days, most people have gotten wise to the fact that sitting in smoke while capping is about the dumbest thing a DD can do, since smoke becomes a torp magnet.  Smoke can be good for escapes.  It can be good for smoke shooting later on in battles when you think you have a safe situation and can smoke up and shoot without eating torps.  But it really does help to have good situational awareness of where any enemy DDs are, if you're going to smoke up and shoot.

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WoWS Community Contributors
3,327 posts
13,101 battles
On 6/1/2018 at 11:11 PM, Gigs_Up said:

I've spent the last 4 months (since game install) working my way up the line of US Destroyers. Before the latest update, I've had to deal with intermittent radar detection by the CAs whos Commanders had acquired this radar skill and by air, (BBs equipped with planes and the CVs) I've learned to deal with each of these scenarios (or a combination thereof), my survival rate was acceptable as my engine boost and AA gave me a slim chance and just before the last update, I was managing about a 70% survival rate escaping with 10-50% of my ship's HP remaining and was ok with that. In fact, I was starting to get pretty good at it and it was fun.

I want to throw in a little banter about inexperienced or novice players who find it necessary to hide or snipe the enemy BBs, CAs and DDs from the maximum firing range of their ships and as some of you might have figured out on your own, hitting a DD or possibly a CA from that range (12-15k out) is quite difficult.

As a DD Captain, I'm required (or abliged) to spot, cap, harass and sink the enemy if possible.., giving those ships with the high caliber guns a target and opportunity to do something that my guns would take 30-40-50 hits (or more depending on HP of enemy ship) out of the 100 or so shots with my guns I'd have to take in order to survive a one on one battle with a CA or the DD who is slithering through the waters like a snake (that's me too!) My torpedoes are about 5-15% accurate with a max of 1-3 torpedos out of 10 hitting the intended target (15% is on a good day and a good team which is few and far between) as with all good Captains we should not sail in a straight line. I did hit a BB once with about 7 torps, got a "Devastating Strike" badge and just after that I got an "It's only a Flesh Wound" badge cause his/her guns took me out in one salvo at about 2.5k just before my torps hit her. Another time I was thrown in a T-6-7-8 match and managed a Kraken with 6 ships sunk, not bragging but like to shout out to all those CAs and BBs who were hitting those ships hard with shell fire just before my torps finished them off, in fact I'd give them at least 3 kills if I could and take away my Kraken... good job guys/gals... »Ò¿Ó«... GG that was, all working together.

5b12086c93a9e_Gigs_UpStats.thumb.jpg.17c8cf22485c862f3646d1d5da6e04ae.jpg5b12098b76e87_WOWQueue.thumb.jpg.f5a670704af80a3a4abe5fd2bb87c579.jpg

The CAs are hunting in packs of 2-5 and when 1 radar runs out, another will start up till the DD is sunk... approaching a flag area is a certain failure on the part of the DD, flanking doesn't work either. Trying to figure a new way to be competitive again and the answer is eluding me except to say WOW has stacked the deck against the DDs. I'm losing anywhere from 5-50k in credits 90% of the time and let's not mention the flags, camo that was wasted as well as my stats are tanking and are worse than the dismal threshold I've been able to muster. Smoke is rendered useless in this case and finding an island a 1/2 a click away is futile as there are about 20 guns on your back at any one time

I thank WOW for the Super Container I received containing 7 days free Premium, without it, I wouldn't have come close to getting the Fletcher. I had to purchase another 3 days to get enough to buy the ship and cannibalized some of my other ships to get the upgrades. I could buy more (Premium, Dabloons...) but will not waste money to become super easy targets for the CAs. WOW needs to go back to the drawing board and figure out how they're going to fix this. Limit the number of radars in a match, put all the CAs in their own match and let them eat each other... I don't know but they need to do something... I'm working to obtain the Commander Skill that increases my HP from 17,100 to I think 21,000 but even that would not help and I'd be giving the RED CAs more HP to put into their coffers.

Not having fun anymore, I'll have to start back at T-3 to mature a line of BBs or CAs... but they'll (WOW) will change something then too... I'm sure of it, making it more difficult in gameplay without having to buy something... Not afraid to spend a little money but not throwing it away either...

One more concern, the Karma system is broken and needs to be evaluated again. I have given both compliments and reported bad behavior and though it takes only one person to give a compliment, it should take two or more Captains to take away a Karma Point, I actually had a Captain on the Red Team give me a bad report because I sank him as well as the taunting and verbal abuse I received in chat during the match, I blocked him altogether it got so bad.

I like running DDs and not really wanting to change and if I did... it would be on my terms and of my choice...

As you can see, I'm not killing it and don't use any illegal mods, but I was having fun. Now I'm whining and I'm done with WOW if they don't fix this soon... 

What you are looking at is a shift in the meta due to a new line.  It will stabilize over the next couple months as it has always done every time a new line is introduced.

I am enjoying the challenge of the new meta.  4-6 enemy radars keeps me on my toes, and sharpens my skills as a player.  I dont know if it will help you out, but I have posted a few threads in the Destroyer, KM DD, and IJN DD sections that have a lot of replays, and I am rapidly adding content to my youtube to teach basic to advanced skills on how to DD.  You can ask any questions you have in my threads, and I will do my best to respond, and if possible get you a replay showing you how I would approach the situation in the DD in question.

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
0
[YRSP-]
Members
1 post
4,316 battles

Highblooded, wstugamd, Crucis,

Thanks for the tips and advice, I've started back at T-3 and began my journey to mature the US line of BBs, (this will take months to reach T-9 again) I'm currently in the S. Carolina and as I already knew, I'll need to invest in some additional slots as I want to keep the Mahan, Benson, and Fletcher as well needing a slot for the Gearing in the future requiring  US$ .

Taking my frustration out on the CAs as often as I can while thinking of the people at WOW, mainly keeping quiet in the "chat box". I did play one match in the Fletcher today and is more of the same. I was Radared within in first maybe 3-4 minutes of the match, there was terrain present for which I used to approach C Area. The CA retreated after the big guns started sending ordinance down range, I did send some torps at the Bizmark and his/her ship was able to miss every one of them... a recurring story of my experience in US DDs, the Bizmark was later sunk by my team. I didn't charge the flag which I stopped doing since I sat in the Captain's chair of the Mahan and there was some terrain on the map where we approached (as I already mentioned) to duck behind while attempting to keep the CAs and BBs spotted for the bigger guns on my team. Green Team's CAs and BBs were extremely reluctant to enter the flag area at which point I left the islands and began approaching C Area. The DD that was in close proximity to the flag had retreated so with some discretion (thnx Crucis) I moved to assist with the capture. A couple of Green CAs and a BB had moved in about the same time and was successfully capped.

The Red Team already had A-B flags capped and could see CAs, 3 of them, 2 in the B area and 1 South, as well as Red BBs, flanking North of the same area. I began to approach with extreme caution and was detected by a DD who had a lower detection range than me. Done this before so I popped smoke and evaded (not staying in the smoke) I moved out the back of my smoke and came around to back side of nearby island next to B keeping the CA south of B just in sight when I saw torps from the DD who had retreated earlier coming in from the southwest towards the CA about the same time the CA had seen them and he popped his radar and I quickly evaded right into the torps of the DD who spotted me before. I was sunk... I was about 8k away when this happened, my detection range is 6.6 without camo and 6.4 with camo, I can get an addition 10% concealment if my Commander masters the skill requiring 4 skill points...

Sorry for the play by play, it may not have been necessary, however, my point is the game dynamics are not the same. WOW is going to have to reevaluate it's decision if it wants to keep the DDs a viable part of gameplay. I'm sure DDs in WWII had chaff or some other means of tricking radar.. (Philidelphia Experiment comes to mind..lol...lol) well... maybe not so sure, I would need to investigate this further on my own. My BIGGEST problem is the cost of running T-9 and T-10 Destroyers in this game. If I can't farm HP then it is economically inefficient to continue to run the US DDs. If I'm to spot then the cost of spotting must increase and passed onto the CAs and BBs who take advantage from my efforts to spot for them.

BBs are visible to another BB from as much as 13.9k using the S. Carolina as an example and the bigger ships are visible even farther less the camo and skill mods however the CAs detection range is substantially less and can hide behind mountains and in smoke some of them have torpedoes. There is an unfair advantage afforded to CAs and now I'm wondering if the DDs had radar in WWII? How did they find other ships friendly or foe? The sonar installed on DDs were efficient enough to find subs because they were sub killers too. Or, at least in the movies, I'd have to check real-world history data to confirm.

WOW is going to have to do something... reduce the cost of running these boats in T-8-9-10 or share some of the HP that other ships farm from the efforts of the DDs labor and frustration... do something...5b13768997d3d_Fletcher1.thumb.jpg.2128dd2cbf6a34fe10b133b49961688e.jpg5b13769b1a494_Fletcher2.thumb.jpg.e6e119fdd73a0ff2e783c93d44cad3ba.jpg5b1376aa4ba73_Fletcher3.thumb.jpg.67bde5703185729fbfa75f5dad614c84.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
0
[YRSP-]
Members
1 post
4,316 battles

Destroyer_KuroshioKai

Destroyer_KurshioKai

Thanks for your reply and encouragement. I'll check out your youtube channel and data relating to DDs. Again, thanks for your time and efforts. This was supposed to be... just... a game to pass some time away and it's become more than that now. Love my US DDs especially the Fletcher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
0
[YRSP-]
Members
1 post
4,316 battles

OMG, I really hate sounding like a whiner, but can someone answer a question for me? I have played my Fletcher once per day due to the overwhelming cost it requires to play in a T-8-9-10 match in this boat. On Sunday, (early morning) I posted the results of a match I finished that morning and today I'm posting the results of a match I finished this morning. Why is the cost higher today (spent 135,310) than Sunday (spent 105,000)? I used the ZULU Flag Modifier today and don't remember what I used on Sunday, however, the service from Sunday to today went up 30,310 credits with the +20% Credits ZULU Flag which increased my credits by 15,701 over my standard earnings from the game. The difference from Sunday and today resulted in a 28.9% increase operating this boat. The other big difference between Sunday and Today was we lost the match on Sunday (I was sunk early in the game, no HP, did have 2 spots and Flag Assist) and today we won (and I survived the game with about 35-40% HP, 6 Main Battery Hits, 1 Torpedo Hit, 1 Plane shot down totaling 19,579 damage). So instead of closing the gap using modifiers and actually having earned HP and a team win, the gap increased. I really need to get a life outside of this game. I wonder if this is what a compulsive gambler feels like? Does using modifiers increase the cost of running a ship... Why, once you have logged out of the game, the stats are no longer available? I would like to see the details of my matches over the last month to analyze/track data. For the next several weeks, I'm going to "Print Screen" each match results so to better understand this phenomenon and analyze for consistency/accuracy/trend. Not spending any money till I understand this. 

5b16a841ecf14_Fletcher3.thumb.jpg.17078207eae006f997158cb43f34425a.jpg5b16a920728ec_Fletcher4.thumb.jpg.eff7dfdbfa8421b9a973b69bf016d7e7.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
12 posts
4,467 battles

Ranked ended and you lost the -20% cost flag. You could have just moused over the cost number to see details, or notice the "-20%" that's clearly visible even in this screenshot. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,445
[CAST]
Members
4,898 posts
3,416 battles

People like playing new or changed ships. These ships have radar which sucks for DDs. When new DD lines are introduced, it sucks for BBs. When new BBs are introduced, it sucks for cruisers.

It'll eventually die down once most players realize how easy it is to kill them.

In the meantime, learn to bait radar, how to call for focus fire on spotted radar cruisers, and how to always cap in a way that allows an easy withdrawal. Your teammates will need to learn to force radar cruisers away from caps if they want to win. Just like they already focus down DDs when they are spotted. There's a kill priority for ships in this game and USN and RU cruisers are right near the top of the list.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×