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Lord_Slayer

A CV TB question for you

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After watching a CV player eliminate DDs by dropping torps in a cross pattern, I began to follow that tactic and have eliminated a few DDs.
Without even thinking about it, in a later game I cross dropped on a BB. Immediately someone told me that I should not have cross dropped on the BB, that I should have sent all the TBs to attack one side of the BB.

That got me thinking. We have seen videos where a DD survived multiple torpedo hits in the same section, because that section had been saturated and 'destroyed'. Wouldn't that also apply to a BB? Wouldn't that then make the stacked TB squadrons cancel out a second torpedo hit in the same space as it would be 'saturated'? Your opinions please.

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Ive seen and done both although latest i do all same on bb and am hopeless trying to kill dds. Thus i dont really play cv anymore. All i can say is ive never experienced taking multiple hits and not taking serious damage either in dds or bbs

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Cross or Focus Dropped, it's all still good and will hurt the target either way.  I've done it to people and others have done it to me.

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BB sections take a lot more damage to saturate. They can also take citadel hits from torpedoes, whereas destroyers can't.

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18 minutes ago, Lord_Slayer said:

After watching a CV player eliminate DDs by dropping torps in a cross pattern, I began to follow that tactic and have eliminated a few DDs.
Without even thinking about it, in a later game I cross dropped on a BB. Immediately someone told me that I should not have cross dropped on the BB, that I should have sent all the TBs to attack one side of the BB.

That got me thinking. We have seen videos where a DD survived multiple torpedo hits in the same section, because that section had been saturated and 'destroyed'. Wouldn't that also apply to a BB? Wouldn't that then make the stacked TB squadrons cancel out a second torpedo hit in the same space as it would be 'saturated'? Your opinion

s please.

Depends on the torpedo bombers, what your attacking, and more importantly, how they're maneuvering.

With a typical IJN CV, 2 flights of 4 with simple drop patterns, against a maneuvering DD, you're cross dropping just to secure a hit. Against a battleship that isn't in a tight turn already, it's better to focus on getting a really good drop, you are going to be scattering torpedoes along the target's length, so saturation isn't really a problem. If you take too long to setup the cross drop, the target BB if he's smart is going to start turning, and reduce the number of hit's you're going to land. With Graf Zeppelin or Enterprise, cross or converging drops might be advantageous with the big holes in their drop patterns.

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I've never run into a saturation issue when dropping torpedoes. But unless your cross drop caused a lower hit rate or more plane losses, who cares?

I will often cross drop battleships because I had no reason to wait to stack my torpedo bombers. Now, in this case when I say cross drop, I don't mean waste one set to force them to commit to eating another set. I mean the lead squadron goes in and drops, and the one following closely behind makes a quick adjustment, based on which evasive maneuver they take, to get more hits with the next drop.

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BBs can bem saturated? Well, yes. Buts its really really really hard this happens, because when you drop in a bb you hit a larger portion of the ship, and need hits be focus in one single area to be saturated...

 

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Not only are BB's hard to saturate, but unless I'm mistaken the citadel has more HP than the ship has, torpedo hits to the citadel still count towards that.

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1 minute ago, mofton said:

torpedo hits to the citadel still count towards that.

Don't think I have ever seen a torp hit to the citadel.

 

That aside - It's down first as to how one defines "cross drop", as a drop from both sides or any time in which the torpedoes cross paths. It also can come down as to whether or not you abuse the broken manual drop mechanics. And lastly, the exact scenario in which you are attacking the BB.

Me personally, I try to avoid using manual drops because, obviously I think it's broken and unfair and has caused way too many issues with CV balance in a chain of effects. So because I drop from further out I typically never have my squadrons if I have 2+ of TB's drop at the exact same angle. Though they may come from the same side, but these are targets I know for fact I will hit. However if the approach has my ship coming from bow/stern almost directly, and target is not already in a turn, I will drop from both sides because I have had BB's time it right that I bet on a side to come from and end up they turn away and I score few if any hits because they do it right as the planes are basically committed. Or I do it sometimes to space out my planes more if the enemy is using the equally broken strafe mechanic. Or because maybe I rediverted a squadron or some other scenario in which my bombers are set up already to attack from both sides and isn't worth time and energy to attack from one side. Done right, even if they maneuver they may still take as many if not more hits. Not really wrong to use it anyway given that it's better with wide spaced torps to make sure you get a hit because you can get a BB in those gaps. And Then you have Midway that is just broken with 2x TB squads with that tight grouping. But you also have that sometimes cross drop from 2-3 angles just absolutely shatters a BB players spirit and they just let them hit no attempt at dodging. 

But honestly, as long as your scoring good hits - doesn't matter if you cross drop, stack, etc.

 

However, I must note I'm not most players or CV players. I've never really viewed the role of CV's as to be ship deleting alpha gods. I have always viewed them as a ship meant to do it's damage with DoT effects aka flooding and fires, and make it harder for the enemy to fight and/or flee (module damage, flooding which slows ships, spotting), as well as sometimes control an enemies movement IE, a long range shot I know won't hit that cruiser hiding behind the island, but because he has to move out puts him broadside to my teams BB's. And so that logic in many senses the exact number of hits doesn't matter for, partially shaped by having been a USN AS player (therefore, DoT was my only option) and that I frequently end up out tired against heavy AA, and therefore take heavy losses that hurt any alpha I may have had. Also why I would gladly eat a damage nerf on CV's (makes manual drop drastically less OP and problematic, overall lower devastation to ships in general directly), in order to nerf AA to a reasonable level (aka AA builds don't make some ships immune to air attacks when alone) so were losing less planes from AA at least and increase the accuracy of DB's, namely the supposed to be DB centered USN line. At which point you can stagger attacks against ships to try and wear AA down with DB's and force them to pop DCP before bringing in TB's not group them all in hopes to avoid focus target just devastating the planes as they come in. 

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5 hours ago, WanderingGhost said:

Don't think I have ever seen a torp hit to the citadel.

If you're on the receiving end and you're in a ship that can heal, you can tell if you've been citadelled or not by how much damage you can repair from the torpedo hit (not counting any flooding). It follows standard citadel repair rules.

Also cross-drops can still happen in T4 and T5 where you can't manual attack, it's actually pretty rampant down there.

Edited by Flashtirade

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