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misanthrope0

Underwhelmed by Cleveland

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Given that unlike other Nations CL is can't produce smoke or heals it's not a boat with any staying power. So I don't think giving it both radar and hydro are that much of an advantage to make up for the former.  The guns are underwhelming as well. Retaining the arc of a ballistic missle means that hitting anything at the end of it's short range difficult and it turns out it's HE shells really needs IFHES which makes any Captain under 11 points gives the boat a meh performance.  And the AP shells are nothing to brag about either. Got in to 10 Km brawl with a Minotaur and another Cleveland that was crippled and I was 4/5th health and I still couldn't put down the Cleveland before he and the Minotaur killed me.

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I am a clev player. I don't like the fact that WG didn't fix either the arcs or the velocity of the shells, or the lack of health.

Edited by Iowa3040
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Cleveland is still a decent ship, but it was no doubt stronger at T6 than she is at T8.

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I'm a USN Cruiser Line player.


Cleveland is fine.

Main Gun range is typical for the tier.

Use the floaty shells to lob them over islands.

Stealth Build 9.1km detection range is amazing, especially coupled with the 9km Radar range.

AA is still lethal.

The turret traverse is super fast.  The guns can track easily while the ship is under maneuvers.  In Tier VI this was impossible with the rusty turret traverse.

Unparalleled Consumables Access.  DCP, DF, Hydro, Radar at the same time.  Only High Tier USN CLs have consumables access to this degree, not even the USN CAs do.  If Des Moines wants Hydro, she has to drop Defensive Fire.  If old VIII NOLA wanted Hydro, she had to drop Defensive Fire.  Etc.  These consumables can heavily affect the match in favor of your team if used properly.  I find it amazing that people think these consumables like Hydro, Radar, Defensive Fire ***at the same d*mn time*** are not important.

 

If you are sailing Cleveland to try to play her like you did as a Tier VI, you will fail.  Cleveland now has many tools to help sway the match in her team's favor.  Use them.

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33 minutes ago, Iowa3040 said:

I am a clev player. I don't like the fact that WG didn't fix either the arcs or the velocity of the shells, or the lack of health.

The shell velocity isn't broken.  It's historical, and WG never deviates from historical as a buff.  There are a few examples of them using shells slower than they should be, but none that I recall where shells are juiced up.  What they /could/ do is fix the shell drag values.  The USN switched to a long shell because it has lower drag properties, and that is not modeled in game.

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Guns (shells) are same. Still good. AA is still good. Radar range is good.

HP and shell range is worse for the tier than it was at T6 (where it was borderline OP). At T8 is average. Now that it has to play bigger/tougher maps (e.g. Tiers of the Cruisers) range is an issue. Fewer islands to hid in and every other ship can cit you and they know how.

It is now like Atlanta and must be played in a similar fashion.

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Well, our clan had a training class and I has an a Cleveland shooting AP  at a NC at different ranges. 10-15 km range.

 

At 12-15 km - Seems the most penetration hits are going to be on the deck armor, but only 1-2 of these per salvo. So your looking at 1-2k HP damage.

At 10-12 km More penetration hits to the deck and superstructure Looking at 2-4k per salvo.

 

Conclusion: If facing a BB, just spam HE. and start fires.

 

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I actually like the Cleveland better than the Buffalo up to this point.

Will need many more games but right now the Cleveland with its better concealment for me is easier to use against 9 and 10's then the buffalo is.

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5 hours ago, crzyhawk said:

The shell velocity isn't broken.  It's historical, and WG never deviates from historical as a buff.  There are a few examples of them using shells slower than they should be, but none that I recall where shells are juiced up.  What they /could/ do is fix the shell drag values.  The USN switched to a long shell because it has lower drag properties, and that is not modeled in game.

You sure about that? I heard they buffed the Aoba's reload beyond its actual RoF in history.

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12 minutes ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

You sure about that? I heard they buffed the Aoba's reload beyond its actual RoF in history.

RoF is a soft stat, but shell velocity is historical

Unless it's a prototype or blueprint only gun, in which case the shell velocity can be anything WG wants it to be

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4 hours ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

You sure about that? I heard they buffed the Aoba's reload beyond its actual RoF in history.

Reload and shell velocity are two entirely different things.  Aoba's reload is presently on crack, and has been since beta because they forced a T5 ship into T6.

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7 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

Aoba's reload is presently on crack, and has been since beta because they forced a T5 ship into T6.

And now it goes head-to-head against the Pepsi. Interesting to see how that plays out. Always wondered how WG takes a Furry Taco, waves its magic wand  and poof, you have a Tier 6 ship (better guns/AA, worse torp angles).

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Used to get 30-45K damage per game in older one, had 921K xp in it, now get about 4-15K damage per game. No where near as much fun to play.

Edited by Ericson38

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Agree with the OP.

AA has not had its needed buff; so while it was a lethal AA boat at T6, tis barely adequate at tier 8, esp against T10 sky cancer.
The secondaries are even more useless now than ever.
The AP, while acceptable at T6, is useless at T8, even at point blank targets. Worse if you try to lob shells - which means no DD killing; which right now is the critical gameplay element.

In effect, she's been taken from a solid boat to 'yet another HE spammer that hides behind islands'. Which is  reflective of the utterly failtarded gameplay WG seems to be after these days.

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3 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

And now it goes head-to-head against the Pepsi. Interesting to see how that plays out. Always wondered how WG takes a Furry Taco, waves its magic wand  and poof, you have a Tier 6 ship (better guns/AA, worse torp angles).

Depends on the player.  Bow on, Aoba can out DPS Pensacola.  She's got torps.  If Aoba broadsides, Pensacola wins.  If Pensacola broadsides, money is on Aoba.  People make way too much out of Pensacola's 10 barrels and auto-bounce angles.  Aoba has better stealth, and can bait Pensacolas into torps when kiting.  Now, I think Aoba sucks, but she's got some things she can hang her hat on.  For a smart player, Aoba has more tools in her box.  Pensacola got nerfed to fight the same ships she fights now; she was better off at T7.

Edited by crzyhawk

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13 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I'm a USN Cruiser Line player.


Cleveland is fine.

Main Gun range is typical for the tier.

Use the floaty shells to lob them over islands.

Stealth Build 9.1km detection range is amazing, especially coupled with the 9km Radar range.

AA is still lethal.

The turret traverse is super fast.  The guns can track easily while the ship is under maneuvers.  In Tier VI this was impossible with the rusty turret traverse.

Unparalleled Consumables Access.  DCP, DF, Hydro, Radar at the same time.  Only High Tier USN CLs have consumables access to this degree, not even the USN CAs do.  If Des Moines wants Hydro, she has to drop Defensive Fire.  If old VIII NOLA wanted Hydro, she had to drop Defensive Fire.  Etc.  These consumables can heavily affect the match in favor of your team if used properly.  I find it amazing that people think these consumables like Hydro, Radar, Defensive Fire ***at the same d*mn time*** are not important.

 

If you are sailing Cleveland to try to play her like you did as a Tier VI, you will fail.  Cleveland now has many tools to help sway the match in her team's favor.  Use them.

This.

 

And like others have said, it plays like an Atlanta. It’s floaty shells are actually a lot easier to hit with than Atlanta's and with IFHE she does good damage on most hits. She has reasonable armor (you probably won’t bounce B.B. shells, but if you angle and use cover and concealment it can take a long time to whittle you down). 

I think the basic problem is that at tier 6, players got in the habit of doing a lot of stupid stuff but still making the Cleveland work. Sailing broadside and lobbing HE from 14 km away was never a good idea, but Cleveland’s too often escaped punishment. Now she’s got a high skill floor to go with her high skill ceiling.

 

 

Not everyone likes light cruisers. They’re the ones with the little guns, so they take a lot of skill to use well. Where the Cleveland was at tier 6, most cruisers were light cruisers, so the difference wasn’t that apparent.

I had a match in my North Carolina today where I sunk 4 Clevelands, all of them sailing broadside to me at 12 km or less. 2 of them kept sailing broadside after I citadeled the crap out of them. I was spotted almost the entire match because their CV decided my NC was he easiest target he had, so it’s not like they didn’t know I was coming their way. That’s showing tier 6 cruiser play in a tier 8-10 match. Do that against a noob BB with 14” guns and crappy dispersion and you might live. 

They also had a Buffalo I was trying for, but he kept setting me on fire from the other side of islands. 

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Forecast Cleveland from most popular ship to least.  IS now a piece scrap metal rusting hulk.  Worthless ship to play.  Lost my 17 point skipper to an 8 pt.  For Sale 1 outfitted Cleveland.

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Not everybody is going to like the tier 8 Cleveland playstyle of a light cruiser, and she is less forgiving at tier 8 than at tier 6 if one makes a mistake in her. However, when used properly, she is quite fun to play, even in a tier X match.

So far, I have had a blast playing her, even more so than I did at tier 6.

 

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17 hours ago, alexf24 said:

It is now like Atlanta and must be played in a similar fashion.

No. Atlanta has defensive torpedoes that discourage players from getting close to you. Only a couple days in, everyone has figured out that Cleveland has no effective means of self-defense, and the easiest way to deal with it is to just drive around whatever you're using for cover and blast the tar out of you. I enjoy the heck out of Atlanta. It's one of my favorite ships. Cleveland is nearly unplayable for me. It needs help. Smoke, torps, actual armor... Something.

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1 hour ago, daVinci761st said:

Not everybody is going to like the tier 8 Cleveland playstyle of a light cruiser, and she is less forgiving at tier 8 than at tier 6 if one makes a mistake in her. However, when used properly, she is quite fun to play, even in a tier X match.

So far, I have had a blast playing her, even more so than I did at tier 6.

 

Same.

Though I just realized I’ve been playing her without any upgrades mounted. 

I've yet to finish the 150k damage mission with her yet though. I’ve gotter 120k twice, but haven’t been able to get past that. 

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Explain this...would like to learn more.

I think the basic problem is that at tier 6, players got in the habit of doing a lot of stupid stuff but still making the Cleveland work.

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20 hours ago, TypicalEngineer said:

I'm quite enjoying my T8 Cleveland so far. Been able to nail a couple of DDs with her fast fireing guns and radar.

oh yea as a DD hunter's it's great just think it rather meh otherwise when getting slotted at T8.

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8 hours ago, USSUstafish said:

No. Atlanta has defensive torpedoes that discourage players from getting close to you. Only a couple days in, everyone has figured out that Cleveland has no effective means of self-defense, and the easiest way to deal with it is to just drive around whatever you're using for cover and blast the tar out of you. I enjoy the heck out of Atlanta. It's one of my favorite ships. Cleveland is nearly unplayable for me. It needs help. Smoke, torps, actual armor... Something.

This, the other thing I forgot to mention about American vs other CL lines lack of even a short range torpedo which stops what you just described.

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