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inktomi19d

Are the revamped USN cruisers fun?

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The big problem for me was the same problem the USN cruisers had before from tier 7 on. They were just boring to play. The tier 6 Cleveland was the last interesting ship to play. I have already sold my Pepsi, am hanging on to the New Orleans because I have that Congrats Camo that gives +50% xp so will play her a bit for first wins in co-op, and will hang on to Cleveland so I can play the upcoming OPs. Other than that, they are one trick, island humping, ponies. Some people enjoy that, I do not. In one word the ships are boring. 

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i like pepsi  gun, with skill/equpment boosted rotation speed

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For me (ie: my opinion)...

  • T6 Pensacola - terribad awful. The nerfs to it are so bad that the ship is pretty much unplayable. Not fun and not good (worse than it was at T7)
  • T7 New Orleans - it's ok in it's new T7 form. Better than Pensacola was at T7 and T7 is probably a better fit for it than T8 was. Seems about the same to me as when T8. Mainly less HP and no radar + better MM (sees T5 now).
  • T8 Celevland - I am one who never really thought it was a great T6. AA was glorious but the rest of the ship was meh for me. I expected a worse ship being T8 but tbh it isn't as bad as I expected. The faster ROF and MUCH faster turret rotation helps a LOT! It also has better concealment which also helps a ton. It is actually more fragile as a T8 based on what's shooting it now vs before but I seem to do a bit better in it as a T8. Still not a favorite of mine or anything but it is not the disaster I expected as a T8. Also, if you are TT the AA is still great but when facing T9 and especially T10 CV's it is just average. You won't melt every plane out of the sky from T9 and T10 CV's.
  • T8 Baltimore - Good fit at T8. Hate losing the heal but it is what it is. It's a better T8 than NO was just as NO is a better T7 than Pensacola was. I like it. Better MM for it as well and now sees T6.
  • T9 Buffalo - My favorite ship of the group in this change. Man what a beast. IMO this should be the T10 with Des Moines dropped to T9. Obvsiously a buff to ROF would be needed for Buffalo but this is a really fun and strong ship. My favorite T9 Cruiser hands down.

All in all I would give a thumbs up on the ships except for Pensacola which not only gets 2 thumbs down but the other 8 fingers down too. That ship is FUBAR!!!!!

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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10 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:
  • T9 Buffalo - My favorite ship of the group in this change. Man what a beast. IMO this should be the T10 with Des Moines dropped to T9. Obvsiously a buff to ROF would be needed for Buffalo but this is a really fun and strong ship. My favorite T9 Cruiser hands down.

I can agree with most of what you said except Pensacola (read: my Tier 7 cruisers have been somehow getting rekt by them oddly often after they became Tier 6, perhaps because I'm less cautious fighting them?) and more importantly...

...Good sir, have you done the math on Buffalo's DPM compared to Baltimore? Even with full upgrades and equipment the effective DPM is at best equal given the ABXY turrets instead of ABX...

But if you fit the rudder time equipment as well, hmm... yes, I can see it being usable then as pretty much a bigger (stock) Cleveland in wiggle.

Something for me to think on. Thanks!

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On ‎6‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 11:08 PM, Guardian54 said:

I can agree with most of what you said except Pensacola (read: my Tier 7 cruisers have been somehow getting rekt by them oddly often after they became Tier 6, perhaps because I'm less cautious fighting them?) and more importantly...

...Good sir, have you done the math on Buffalo's DPM compared to Baltimore? Even with full upgrades and equipment the effective DPM is at best equal given the ABXY turrets instead of ABX...

But if you fit the rudder time equipment as well, hmm... yes, I can see it being usable then as pretty much a bigger (stock) Cleveland in wiggle.

Something for me to think on. Thanks!

I played Pensacola as a T7 and now as a T6. While I recognized it was bad as a T7 it could still be fun and do some good. As a T6 is not fun at all and is basically unplayable and just horrendously bad. I have no desire to play it at all now so it will just sit and rust in port unless they at the least do something about the glacial turret rotation. YMMV.

When I suggested moving Buffalo to T10 over the Des Moines I mentioned it needed a ROF buff. Get it down to say 7-8 seconds. I like Buffalo at T9 better than I did Baltimore.

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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Just now, AdmiralThunder said:

When I suggested moving Buffalo to T10 over the Des Moines I mentioned it needed a ROF buff. Get it down to say 7-8 seconds. I like Buffalo at T9 better than I did Baltimore.

I am aware you mentioned a need for an ROF buff to go to Tier 10. 7-8 seconds base sounds reasonable for Tier 10 with 12 guns.

The problem is that it's over 13 seconds reload at Tier 9. How can you stand it? I've resorted to playing it in PVE if at all until the equipment sale on the 15th of June. I suspect fully decked out it might be tolerable for my hyper-aggressive dancer playstyle (I'm godawful at range control as a consequence of relying on wiggling and finding turning further often too dangerous whenever over 2 guys aim at me, which due to hyper-aggression is... way too often).

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8 hours ago, Guardian54 said:

I am aware you mentioned a need for an ROF buff to go to Tier 10. 7-8 seconds base sounds reasonable for Tier 10 with 12 guns.

The problem is that it's over 13 seconds reload at Tier 9. How can you stand it? I've resorted to playing it in PVE if at all until the equipment sale on the 15th of June. I suspect fully decked out it might be tolerable for my hyper-aggressive dancer playstyle (I'm godawful at range control as a consequence of relying on wiggling and finding turning further often too dangerous whenever over 2 guys aim at me, which due to hyper-aggression is... way too often).

It's actually 13.0 sec exactly not over 13. LOL I play a lot of BB so 13 seconds doesn't seem that long to reload when you are used to 30. You can always slot MBM3 and drop it to 11.4 sec. Go with AR on your Capt and you can get sub 10 sec as your health drops if running MBM3 I would think.

I went for range vs reload. Mine is fully upgraded and it is a blast. I admit I would like to see a hair faster reload though. I know it has 12 guns but 13 seems a bit steep at T9. 11 base which could be lowered to 9.7 seems more reasonable.

I only play Co-op so...

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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On 6/1/2018 at 5:27 AM, inktomi19d said:

Simple question here: are the revamped USN cruisers fun to play?

Pensacola - NO, IMO is not fun at all, hard to believe this is the same USS Pensacola from History.

New Orleans - It is okay, not really impressive but not really bad.

Cleveland - NO, I did not care for it at T6 and liked it a little at T8, but it was not fun at all.

I was not happy with any of them, but this is just my opinion.

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1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

It's actually 13.0 sec exactly not over 13. LOL I play a lot of BB so 13 seconds doesn't seem that long to reload when you are used to 30. You can always slot MBM3 and drop it to 11.4 sec. Go with AR on your Capt and you can get sub 10 sec as your health drops if running MBM3 I would think.

I went for range vs reload. Mine is fully upgraded and it is a blast. I admit I would like to see a hair faster reload though. I know it has 12 guns but 13 seems a bit steep at T9. 11 base which could be lowered to 9.7 seems more reasonable.

I only play Co-op so...

I play a lot of BBs too, but making that slow-[edited]turret traverse even SLOWER sounds like insanity.

Noted.

I almost never do PVE, hence "IT'S NOT COMPETITIVE!!11!!" howling from me.

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3 minutes ago, Guardian54 said:

I play a lot of BBs too, but making that slow-[edited]turret traverse even SLOWER sounds like insanity.

Noted.

I almost never do PVE, hence "IT'S NOT COMPETITIVE!!11!!" howling from me.

As my signature says...

Yes, I only play Co-op. No, I do not want to play PVP. No, I do not care what you think about that.

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1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

As my signature says...

Yes, I only play Co-op. No, I do not want to play PVP. No, I do not care what you think about that.

Lol, I saw that.

Though I find it bleh even in co-op mode...

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I agree, some of the lower Tier cruisers now feel a lot better, since they have better match ups now.
In reverse the cleveland feels worse - Before she could spam from afar with her range, now she has to face up to T10 with ships that surpass her range (which is already really hard to aim with)

US Cruisers would feel a lot better if CVs would make a come back. A german cruiser is far slower and less mobile and can be bombed easily, but they brawl a lot better.

I hope the CV rewokr comes soon, and then maybe the US ships can shine again, while the others suffer under sky cancer >XD
If not... well yea, than the US line (as usual) is a bit boring to play since the big boost in AA means nothing.

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in a single word  NO  all they can do is island hide and pop off radar I shot a GK 77 times for a whopping 9700 damage with my Cleveland He shot me 3 times for 16 K  Put the Cleveland back where it came from or at least remove all the nerfs it took so it can fight

 

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On 6/1/2018 at 2:27 AM, inktomi19d said:

Simple question here: are the revamped USN cruisers fun to play?

I'm not talking about balance, because we won’t have good stats for a month or more, but are there ships among them that you want to play every day? Are there ships you would buy permanent cammo for? When you’re having a bad day, what would you play to unwind? Are there any ships where you might get that little feeling of glee when you find out you can use them in a new operation, or in a season of ranked? If tier 10 didn’t exist, are there any ships in the line which would be worth earning all on their own?

My thinking here is that it’s okay for a ship to underperform, as long as players like it. It’s fine if opinions are divided (I love the Colorado, for example, but I know most people hate it), or if there are some ships in a line which are boring while others are fun. What’s not okay is when too many ships in a row are boring. 

 

 

For me, I love the new Cleveland. With its consumables, and it’s island-hugging, fire-rainbow shooting style, she can be challenging, but rewarding too. The faults are part of the package. I get that not everyone is going to like it, but some of the best ships are very polarizing. Since this is a game, it’s probably better if some people like it and some people hate it than if everyone is bored by it. 

I’m gonna withold judgement on the CAs, but the fact that I’ve had the Pensacola, New Orleans, and Baltimore sitting in port (with permanent cammo on all of them) while I play other ships of the same tiers for fun every day says a lot about them. All three of those ships had some fun quirks whenever I was willing to put up with their abuse; now they mostly seem less painful but less interesting. I’ll wait til I’ve played them a bit more before selling any of them.

The Buffalo is definitely getting sold whenever I get Des Moines. There is nothing which sets the Buffalo apart, or makes it interesting (the extra turret is on the back, so it’s rarely used). I’d have kept the tier 9 Baltimore for sure; I know a lot of people hated that ship, but the crazy-fast rate of fire opened up a lot of options for that ship, and if you found ways to only expose your front two turrets it was very effective. In most circumstances, the Buffalo has dramatically lower DPM, so it kinda lacks options — It’s desinged to be adequate, and it is adequate, but adequate doesn’t earn a port slot. 

The CL line looks fun though, if Cleveland is an indication. I’m sure their going to be divisive ships, but divisive is fine — it’s better for half the player base to hate a ship and the other half to love it than for all to agree that it’s merely adequate. 

The Cleveland is a fun ship to play although in today’s MM it will always be Mwaaa ..but fun

US Cruisers line overall is the only line I ever Quit on

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Playing around the line up and down every now and then. And all in all the Baltimore feels best to me.
Here are my thoughts on why I enjoy her more than the higher Tiers:

1) She is actually nimble enough to dodge shots
2) Her Matchups dont have this crazy artillery range/ precise shots or armor so that I can fight in a good distance and actually land citadels more often than with the DM.
3) The bullet arc is better than the DM, so hitting a DD is a lot easier than with the DMs monster arcs/slow bullets. The rate of fire ist fast enough to feel good as well.
Only downside I see is that she now lacks repair.

The heavy cruisers of T9/10 barely cross the line of my comfort zone. Especially the DM just turns way too slowly to dodge much. So not only do we get a huge citadel, no smoke, no torps, no armor but we cant even turn fast enough to dodge.^^
The 50k HP and the repair are the only thing that keeps me alive.

Edited by Doomwaffel

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On 2018-06-17 at 7:34 AM, Capt_Q_Sparrow said:

in a single word  NO  all they can do is island hide and pop off radar I shot a GK 77 times for a whopping 9700 damage with my Cleveland He shot me 3 times for 16 K  Put the Cleveland back where it came from or at least remove all the nerfs it took so it can fight

 

Do you have IFHE on your Cleveland? It's a must-take for all ships with 152mm guns.

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1 hour ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

Do you have IFHE on your Cleveland? It's a must-take for all ships with 152mm guns.

Right, otherwise you are totally dependent on starting fires that stick. Though even with IFHE, if the armor is thick, you still depend of fires AND you have less chance to start one. Gotta watch where the shells are landing (hard to really call it "aiming").

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35 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Right, otherwise you are totally dependent on starting fires that stick. Though even with IFHE, if the armor is thick, you still depend of fires AND you have less chance to start one. Gotta watch where the shells are landing (hard to really call it "aiming").

I guess I have to agree with that. My Atlanta's IFHE has no problem getting solid damage on Tier 6 and 7 battleships, but it starts having trouble against Tier 8s unless it's the British one. IFHE works best when used on battleships that are fat and have sizable superstructure, or at least some really high sections like the ones on Japanese battleships. 152mm guns with IFHE would have more raw damage potential than Atlanta's 127mm, but it would still not be like facing Tier 6 and 7 BBs in terms of your raw damage output. I've also heard that Tier 10 BBs get an automatic -50% chance of being set on fire, and now that Cleveland's Tier 8 it will regularly face Tier 10s. However, against cruisers your IFHE should work just fine. When you have IFHE, 80% of the time you won't be firing AP because with 152mm guns the AP would require a perfect broadside, and when the enemy cruiser isn't showing broadside, the amount of HE penetrations you do (yes, you can penetrate the frontal armor with HE) will basically be the equivalent of AP.

Edited by Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu

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I guess what I dont get about the US line is why WG felt it necessary to make them the most vulnerable line in terms of citadels? While having the shortest range of all Cruisers.
Radar, short range aiming and front armor, that builds the idea of a brawler, but they are actually not very good at that unless they get a broadside to shoot at.

Lately most of my Cruiser vs Cruiser encounters run something like this: We face each other and keep driving towards each others, mostly using HE (bad for US) and in the last moment the enemy turns and shoots torps. And if I turn I get citadeled easily, while the enemys are way harder to hit.

I guess you could argue that the other lines have a longer reload time and should be harder to kill, but those can usually shoot from far away with very precise guns.
The Hindi has what ? ~10-11 reload, ~20km range. On top of that torps and very precise guns as well as a protected citadel... they are more efficient in staying alive, they are more efficient in dealing damage by actual aiming/hitting more reliable and they are more efficient in killing other ships in brawls since they die harder and have torps....

I just dont get the logic for the stats of the US line. Maybe I am a bit biased from frustration but it feels like the sniper should be the one who dies quickly but right now the only correlation I can see is rate of fire. the faster you shoot the faster you die, like the minotaur, though that one has at least a smoke screen.

 

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58 minutes ago, Doomwaffel said:

I guess what I dont get about the US line is why WG felt it necessary to make them the most vulnerable line in terms of citadels? While having the shortest range of all Cruisers.
Radar, short range aiming and front armor, that builds the idea of a brawler, but they are actually not very good at that unless they get a broadside to shoot at.

 

I just dont get the logic for the stats of the US line. Maybe I am a bit biased from frustration but it feels like the sniper should be the one who dies quickly but right now the only correlation I can see is rate of fire. the faster you shoot the faster you die, like the minotaur, though that one has at least a smoke screen.

Claimed Reason: Napkin boats or completely fabricated tests (Khab can indeed hit that speed if you put all the provisions, crew bunks, spare parts, ammo and weapons on land) can have whatever stats we like, USN has too much service history to completely fabricate, thus it gets reality (which is always less perfect than imagination, "2D don't poop" is an otaku slogan for a reason).

Actual Reason: Russian-Made Game.

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The problem with Cleveland - and the same problem that all of the new CLs are going to face - is that you need a minimum 14 point captain to make her work. You need IFHE and CE. Without IFHE you will get tons and tons of shatters and without CE you will get spotted and vaporized. So you really need both.

 

The CL line is going to be a bit of a 'veterans grind'. Because you're going to need a high-point captain just to make the ships work.

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1 hour ago, Guardian54 said:

Actual Reason: Russian-Made Game.

I know they are from russia, but I took that bias idea more as a running joke. Is there some statement or interview where they actually say something to support that claim ?

Edited by Doomwaffel

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42 minutes ago, Doomwaffel said:

I know they are from russia, but I took that bias idea more as a running joke. Is there some statement or interview where they actually say something to support that claim ?

Khabarovsk's speed is based off a speed trial where they landed the guns, torpedoes, provisions, crew stuff (e.g. beds, dining tables, etc.) and so on. And that's the number they use in-game.

Meanwhile, Americans get purely real-world cited highest speeds, which did not use such ridiculous exploits (because I'm pretty sure a Montana hull with all the weapons, crew materials, etc. taken off can reach 35 knots). Battleship turrets are heavy things, and stripping off all the AA and such would basically take off the whole superstructure in terms of weight loss.

 

And the likes of Roon or Hindenburg are complete WG fabrications without the weaknesses inherent in real life.

Real Life is flawed, and which country has enough real-life designs to fill every line to Tier 10 (except battleships)? THE UNITED STATES (and to a lesser extent the IJN). So the USN, IJN and even the RN get shafted while Russian ships get complete fantasy speeds without the drawbacks that would be found from a real-life design or a fair trial (e.g. Khab doesn't go nearly that fast).

 

I fully expect the Russian Tier 10 BB to be at least 3% WR higher than all the others by 2 years after they release that line of fantasy ships i.e. once stats stabilize. 268V4 level absurdity is fully expected.

Edited by Guardian54

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@Guardian54
Thats something that WG should know better. Obviously this game is not a simulator, so historical accurate and history based are 2 different things. You can base the US designs or others on historic ships, but obviously you adjust them to make a better gameplay. At least thats what I hope they do.

NEWS:
Sooo... additional T10 upgrades available soon. For the Des Moines thats an alternative Upgrade module for the 6th slot.

Currently I use the range upgrade, since ~15km is usually not enough to participate in a T10 battle. Ok, on 15km+ its hard to hit anything that moves, but you can hit ships behind islands or slow BBs.
Exchanging that for something else? RoF seems useless since % based on your already short reload doesnt really do much, half a second at best.

So what we get: + rudder shift + speed up - 10%radar time (4 sec)
I can live with the radar time and more mobility is great, but again, going down to 15km range for that ? ... Also,  what would that free up from the usual rudder shift upgrade? That slot could be something else then (unless we double the rudder shift upgrades) but what is there to take otherwise? again speed up?- no. Leaves dmg control ... meh.

I would like to try it, but I am fairly sceptical that its worth the trade.

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59 minutes ago, Guardian54 said:

Khabarovsk's speed is based off a speed trial where they landed the guns, torpedoes, provisions, crew stuff (e.g. beds, dining tables, etc.) and so on. And that's the number they use in-game.

Didn't the Shimakaze actually beat her design speed on trials? For some reason WG decided not to include that. I will definitely agree that paper ships have a huge advantage. No reason not to have the original Fubuki design for example if you don't have to worry about real life topweight issues.

On the original topic. I do really wish the US line didn't depend on finding a convenient low island to hide behind to be successful. Unfortunately the rolls of long-range-sniper and short-range-brawler are better filled by other lines.

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