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blimp66

Really not thrilled about T8 Cleveland

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So my beloved Cleve is now a T8.  Wish they woulda left it as a T6 where it was enjoyable and effective to play.  Not sure what the intent of the change was, but I find it's no longer the kind of ship you can play aggressively.  In the T6 version, I had no qualms about attacking BBs with it and could wrack up serious damage before getting sunk; now I'm so disheartened with it that I find myself hanging back till the second half of the battle and targeting the cripples.  I have other T8s (Mogami, Takao) and consider this re-tiered Cleve way below their league.

It now has sonar and radar (whoopee?) but no planes.  I'm not really interested in pinging for hidden DDs or doing satellite sweeps for enemies on the other side of the globe.  I want my planes back!  I felt that as a T6 it was a jack-of-all-trades, it could be played against anything with a good measure of confidence.  Now all I see it good for, is as a DD hunter?  Boring!!!

Trying to decide whether I should just give it up and sell it...would appreciate other Cleve owners chiming in and giving their opinions...

 

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Just now, blimp66 said:

So my beloved Cleve is now a T8.  Wish they woulda left it as a T6 where it was enjoyable and effective to play.  Not sure what the intent of the change was, but I find it's no longer the kind of ship you can play aggressively.  In the T6 version, I had no qualms about attacking BBs with it and could wrack up serious damage before getting sunk; now I'm so disheartened with it that I find myself hanging back till the second half of the battle and targeting the cripples.  I have other T8s (Mogami, Takao) and consider this re-tiered Cleve way below their league.

It now has sonar and radar (whoopee?) but no planes.  I'm not really interested in pinging for hidden DDs or doing satellite sweeps for enemies on the other side of the globe.  I want my planes back!  I felt that as a T6 it was a jack-of-all-trades, it could be played against anything with a good measure of confidence.  Now all I see it good for, is as a DD hunter?  Boring!!!

Trying to decide whether I should just give it up and sell it...would appreciate other Cleve owners chiming in and giving their opinions...

 

She’s not easy to use, and that’s ok. She’s essentially an Atlanta, in fact consider all the US CL’s as bigger Atlanta’s. Their play style is pretty much the same. You NEED islands to hide behind. Guns are too accurate at high tier and they WILL delete you. That hard to hit citadel at tier 6 is a joke at tier 8. Recognize it and use its strengths: high turret arcs and fast reload, to rain down he on the enemy team.

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The Cleveland was a ship you could play aggressively at T6?  That's not how I remember my Cleveland experience.

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4 minutes ago, Deviathan said:

The Cleveland was a ship you could play aggressively at T6?  That's not how I remember my Cleveland experience.

You could get “kind of” aggressive, if the enemy BBs were inaccurate enough. That’s not the case anymore at high tier. However I also don’t remember being able to charge BBs like I can in Hindy.

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Just now, Usedcarjock said:

You could get “kind of” aggressive, if the enemy BBs were inaccurate enough. That’s not the case anymore at high tier. However I also don’t remember being able to charge BBs like I can in Hindy.

Yeah that's what I was thinking, at-tier you could kinda do it because of the inaccuracy, but I spent most of the time in T8 when i was grinding through it so maybe different experience than the OP.  I haven't gotten to play the T8 yet, but it just kinda seems like if you get along with the IFHE Mogami then it's more of the same, but with the extra utility and without the torpedo yolo.

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10 minutes ago, Usedcarjock said:

She’s not easy to use, and that’s ok. She’s essentially an Atlanta, in fact consider all the US CL’s as bigger Atlanta’s. Their play style is pretty much the same. You NEED islands to hide behind. Guns are too accurate at high tier and they WILL delete you. That hard to hit citadel at tier 6 is a joke at tier 8. Recognize it and use its strengths: high turret arcs and fast reload, to rain down he on the enemy team.

I noticed the same regarding the Atlanta playstyle. Not liked by everyone, but I love it. ;D

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Just now, Deviathan said:

Yeah that's what I was thinking, at-tier you could kinda do it because of the inaccuracy, but I spent most of the time in T8 when i was grinding through it so maybe different experience than the OP.  I haven't gotten to play the T8 yet, but it just kinda seems like if you get along with the IFHE Mogami then it's more of the same, but with the extra utility and without the torpedo yolo.

Yea that lack of torpedoes really hurts, especially when you finally get caught by an angry horde of BB players at point blank range. Kinda why I like my Atlanta more.

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stuck to my Missouri last night figuring for the glut of CA\CL players.  was bull rushing the last red base on Twins.  Coming at it from the east side.  On the west side of the red base there are a couple of low lying islands.  A red Cleveland parked in the perfect spot behind one of these island.  Since I was way out front leading the charge I became the focal point of the Cleveland's love.   I remember thinking the rate of fire was quit disconcerting.  Not Atlanta -- but was seemed close.  He burned me down from about 3/4 HP to about 1/4 of my health in the time it took me to cross the length of the base.  I think I got under his arc of fire cause the fire hose eventually turned off as I got close to his island hiding spot.  He than had to flee from behind the island -- at which point I nuked him with a couple citadel pens.   

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Well, I played it aggressively, and usually did good damage before feeding the crabs.  I checked my WOWS stats thingy and it shows that that ship was my "moneymaker".  I really felt confident in it, like I do with the Hindy at T10.

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Just now, Dr_Dirt said:

He than had to flee from behind the island -- at which point I nuked him with a couple citadel pens

I cit'd one through the butt a couple times that was at close range to my Buffalo and trying to run away.  That was interesting and not entirely consensual.

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Just now, Dr_Dirt said:

stuck to my Missouri last night figuring for the glut of CA\CL players.  was bull rushing the last red base on Twins.  Coming at it from the east side.  On the west side of the red base there are a couple of low lying islands.  A red Cleveland parked in the perfect spot behind one of these island.  Since I was way out front leading the charge I became the focal point of the Cleveland's love.   I remember thinking the rate of fire was quit disconcerting.  Not Atlanta -- but was seemed close.  He burned me down from about 3/4 HP to about 1/4 of my health in the time it took me to cross the length of the base.  I think I got under his arc of fire cause the fire hose eventually turned off as I got close to his island hiding spot.  He than had to flee from behind the island -- at which point I nuked him with a couple citadel pens.   

Sounds like my night last night, except throw an enemy DM into the mix to really let the salt flow. Though I died, I made sure as hell to take that Cleveland with me. Never before was a Dev Strike so sweet.

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Just now, Deviathan said:

I cit'd one through the butt a couple times that was at close range to my Buffalo and trying to run away.  That was interesting and not entirely consensual.

mines were side pens.  he had a little angle -- but not nearly enough.  

But before that he was cranking out the damage on my MO.

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I can't wait to try it out, just retrained a 19 pt captain for it, now all I need is to grind a bit more elite XP to respect said commander for my CL line. In the PTS I thought it was doing exceedingly well with the lvl 15 William Halsey, but I'm going to slap bull Halsey on my Des Moines, or a Salem eventually? Definitely needs a high tier captain though, so I'm not going to bother sailing it out with a crappy captain, or it may ruin my first impression of it.

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Just now, Usedcarjock said:

Sounds like my night last night, except throw an enemy DM into the mix to really let the salt flow. Though I died, I made sure as hell to take that Cleveland with me. Never before was a Dev Strike so sweet.

I should have played BB more than I did, I made the mistake of trying to throw some cruiser into the mix last night.  Soooo many suicidal cruisers out rolling around, and you just had to hope yours were less suicidal than the other team's.

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17 minutes ago, blimp66 said:

So my beloved Cleve is now a T8.  Wish they woulda left it as a T6 where it was enjoyable and effective to play.  Not sure what the intent of the change was, but I find it's no longer the kind of ship you can play aggressively.  In the T6 version, I had no qualms about attacking BBs with it and could wrack up serious damage before getting sunk; now I'm so disheartened with it that I find myself hanging back till the second half of the battle and targeting the cripples.  I have other T8s (Mogami, Takao) and consider this re-tiered Cleve way below their league.

It now has sonar and radar (whoopee?) but no planes.  I'm not really interested in pinging for hidden DDs or doing satellite sweeps for enemies on the other side of the globe.  I want my planes back!  I felt that as a T6 it was a jack-of-all-trades, it could be played against anything with a good measure of confidence.  Now all I see it good for, is as a DD hunter?  Boring!!!

Trying to decide whether I should just give it up and sell it...would appreciate other Cleve owners chiming in and giving their opinions...

 

You can have your planes back, infact you can even have a apotter plane this time for more range. I love the t8 Cleveland; so many options and the turret traverse and rof is the cherry on the cheese cake. Imo the 10s reload on the t6 cleveland was totally killing it fore me. Now with a 6.5s reload i can make even Udaloi flee.

USN CLs have been in a very bad spot for a long time. Now, this split breathes so much potential i have to choose essentials.

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I’m very aggressive in the new Cleveland. The difference is that at tier 6, the Cleveland could work at ranges where even if a BB aimed perfectly, her shots would scatter randomly, while tier 10s are dead accurate at the same range. 

Like others have said, new Cleveland works like a more powerful Atlanta. Not everyone is going to like the style; I saw a lot of tier 6 Clevelands zigzagging at 12 and 14 km in open water, and that just will not work now. Like the Atlanta, you need to set up shots where the enemy can’t return fire well, abuse islands, and apply egregious amounts of left mouse button to hapless BBs who lumber into range. Given how polarizing the Atlanta is, and how much the new CLs match its style, I can see where people will either love or hate the Cleveland  

 

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1 minute ago, Deviathan said:

I should have played BB more than I did, I made the mistake of trying to throw some cruiser into the mix last night.  Soooo many suicidal cruisers out rolling around, and you just had to hope yours were less suicidal than the other team's.

Yea I tried Cleveland a bit but last nights games were a steamroll one way or another, and Cleveland can’t carry very well if the team gets overrun early, so I just gave up and grinder my BBs a bit.

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1 minute ago, Usedcarjock said:

Yea I tried Cleveland a bit but last nights games were a steamroll one way or another, and Cleveland can’t carry very well if the team gets overrun early, so I just gave up and grinder my BBs a bit.

Cleveland is amazing at defending caps and sending enemy DDs to hide back behind their BBs. I made a lot of use of the camera that follows your rounds to zero in on DDs hiding behind rocks, then nuke them. It’s better at carrying than the Atlanta, because the guns are so much more accurate and longer-ranged, and they deal much more damage to BBs. 

 

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Just now, inktomi19d said:

Cleveland is amazing at defending caps and sending enemy DDs to hide back behind their BBs. I made a lot of use of the camera that follows your rounds to zero in on DDs hiding behind rocks, then nuke them. It’s better at carrying than the Atlanta, because the guns are so much more accurate and longer-ranged, and they deal much more damage to BBs. 

 

I totally agree. But I also think the playstyle is generally VERY situational. Some maps are going to work for Cleveland a lot better than others. Part of her problem atm is the lack of spotting. Being able to shoot over islands is great, but not being able to shoot anything because you are blind isn’t great. For now Cleveland will be difficult to grind BECAUSE of the lack of DDs spotting for them.

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War Gaming did a major disservice to players of the US cruiser line.  So far all the ships are terrible and are significant under performers.

 

I had a fully upgraded Cleveland at T6 and get a completely stock Cleveland at T8 with a captain who has half the talent points.  Nothing like having to grind a ship twice.  Yes I know about the free captain XP, but I should have kept the fully trained captain it had.  Just like it should have remained with fully upgraded hull and gun range.  

Nothing like jumping into a match with a ship you like and being entirely disappointed.

WG you realy made some terrible decisions with this split. 

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As a DM player I love the Cleveland at T8.  I can feed the beast with squishy cits.  When the T9 and T10 show up the fun will be over.  At the moment there are a lot of people who never made it to high tier on USN ships, suddenly finding themselves swimming in Des Moines and Hindenburg waters.

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The new ship feels thoroughly MEH.

The rainbow arcs and short range worked fine at T6, not as well at T8 it seems.  Hitting anything other than a BB at 10+ KM is very difficult.  The ship feels like it needs to play close to the enemy but has absolutely no tools to do so and survive for any meaningful time outside of islands, so it is very map dependent.  Carry potential is low.  If you have to leave your island to go to the enemy you're extremely vulnerable due to how close you need to get in order to hit your target reliably. 

 

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Cleveland is a good ship, HOWEVER

  • I Highly recommend having at least 14pts with CE and IFHE on it
  • Cleveland relies heavily on static cover, which makes it have poor map coverage
  • It doesn't shine if everyone else is using it, because it's not good in open water
  • If every cruiser on your team is hiding behind the limited rocks there are on the map, there's no way to create crossfire

So bust out your Kutuzov, your Chappayev, your Charles Martel, etc. and wait for the fever to die down.

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The difference between Cleveland and Atlanta is that at least the Atlanta has torpedoes. Valuable if you waited in your island hideaway too long and a battleship came around the corner (I don't have one, but the British CLs share the same short-range sting in the tail). 

I miss those torpedoes when I drive any US cruiser after the Omaha.

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The tier 8 Cleveland is not the tier 6 Cleveland.  As has already been said it is really more like the Atlanta which needs to shoot from protected locations and if in the open has to bob & weave like Muhammad Ali and not get hit. Your armor is your maneuverability.

tgozRbp.gif

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