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Usedcarjock

Is the French BB Line the Most Balanced in Recent Memory?

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With the advent of the USN cruiser split and another line of ships clogging the list of trees to go down, I took a step back and looked at the second newest ship line, the French BBs. I have yet to come across someone, on the forums or in game, saying that the French BBs are OP. Nor am I seeing people requesting buffs. All I see are threads and praise for a ship line that is enjoyable to play. Why is that?

 

I think I may have figured it out. The past few BB lines have experienced a huge amount of power creep. First the German BB line adds ships that are next to impossible to citadel at regular combat ranges. Then the RN adds ships that have that same invulnerability but also counter bow on ships with their improved HE. When the French were added, their main gimmick per say was their speed boost consumable and their high velocity guns. However they didn’t push out even the vanilla BB lines in terms of viability. At least when I go up against a French BB I feel like I’m fighting against an opponent who has to fight as strategically as I do in order to survive.

What the French BB line did was introduce ships that were enjoyable to play, but also fair to play against.

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2 minutes ago, Usedcarjock said:

With the advent of the USN cruiser split and another line of ships clogging the list of trees to go down, I took a step back and looked at the second newest ship line, the French BBs. I have yet to come across someone, on the forums or in game, saying that the French BBs are OP. Nor am I seeing people requesting buffs. All I see are threads and praise for a ship line that is enjoyable to play. Why is that?

 

I think I may have figured it out. The past few BB lines have experienced a huge amount of power creep. First the German BB line adds ships that are next to impossible to citadel at regular combat ranges. Then the RN adds ships that have that same invulnerability but also counter bow on ships with their improved HE. When the French were added, their main gimmick per say was their speed boost consumable and their high velocity guns. However they didn’t push out even the vanilla BB lines in terms of viability. At least when I go up against a French BB I feel like I’m fighting against an opponent who has to fight as strategically as I do in order to survive.

What the French BB line did was introduce ships that were enjoyable to play, but also fair to play against.

Dunkerque, Normandie, Lyon, and Richelieu are all a joy to use. Quick, maneuverable, okay AA, okay guns but guns hit what you point them at. Nothing really bad about them. 

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8 minutes ago, Usedcarjock said:

With the advent of the USN cruiser split and another line of ships clogging the list of trees to go down, I took a step back and looked at the second newest ship line, the French BBs. I have yet to come across someone, on the forums or in game, saying that the French BBs are OP. Nor am I seeing people requesting buffs. All I see are threads and praise for a ship line that is enjoyable to play. Why is that?

 

I think I may have figured it out. The past few BB lines have experienced a huge amount of power creep. First the German BB line adds ships that are next to impossible to citadel at regular combat ranges. Then the RN adds ships that have that same invulnerability but also counter bow on ships with their improved HE. When the French were added, their main gimmick per say was their speed boost consumable and their high velocity guns. However they didn’t push out even the vanilla BB lines in terms of viability. At least when I go up against a French BB I feel like I’m fighting against an opponent who has to fight as strategically as I do in order to survive.

What the French BB line did was introduce ships that were enjoyable to play, but also fair to play against.

You must have missed the Alsace threads :):Smile_teethhappy:

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Just now, awiggin said:

You must have missed the Alsace threads :):Smile_teethhappy:

*shrug* People will say any ship is OP if it triggers em enough. Alsace is a monster don’t get me wrong, but I’m not dreading a fight like I would a Lion for example. (Not to be confused with Lyon.)

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8 minutes ago, Usedcarjock said:

With the advent of the USN cruiser split and another line of ships clogging the list of trees to go down, I took a step back and looked at the second newest ship line, the French BBs. I have yet to come across someone, on the forums or in game, saying that the French BBs are OP. Nor am I seeing people requesting buffs. All I see are threads and praise for a ship line that is enjoyable to play. Why is that?

 

I think I may have figured it out. The past few BB lines have experienced a huge amount of power creep. First the German BB line adds ships that are next to impossible to citadel at regular combat ranges. Then the RN adds ships that have that same invulnerability but also counter bow on ships with their improved HE. When the French were added, their main gimmick per say was their speed boost consumable and their high velocity guns. However they didn’t push out even the vanilla BB lines in terms of viability. At least when I go up against a French BB I feel like I’m fighting against an opponent who has to fight as strategically as I do in order to survive.

What the French BB line did was introduce ships that were enjoyable to play, but also fair to play against.

 

 

Any line of BBs that continues the trend of powerful HE and impenetrable citadels is not fun to play against, and the French do both.

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Um... what BB line are you playing? You can totally citadel French BBs, and often. Also unlike the RN, French HE is manageable, if they use it at all.

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Agreed with OP. The French battleship line (and the cruiser line as well to a slightly lesser degree) are just well balanced, fun ships to play without annoying gameplay gimmicks.

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They are not only fair to fight against, but also enjoyable to fight against.

I get salty when I have to fight a RN BB that only spams HE. The French line is in that regard a bit more traditional.

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2 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

They are not only fair to fight against, but also enjoyable to fight against.

I get salty when I have to fight a RN BB that only spams HE. The French line is in that regard a bit more traditional.

I enjoy doing "U-turns" with Richelieu. Hence part of the reason I am still debating Manual AA and CE. I get CE, I can "runaway". I get Manual AA, she most likely will shred planes... assuming I do encounter them.

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1 minute ago, Vangm94 said:

I enjoy doing "U-turns" with Richelieu. Hence part of the reason I am still debating Manual AA and CE. I get CE, I can "runaway". I get Manual AA, she most likely will shred planes... assuming I do encounter them.

Go CE. French BBs can tear planes a new one but the biggest threat to the French is the HE alpha from cruisers. Not being seen is a huge boon.

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Just now, Usedcarjock said:

Go CE. French BBs can tear planes a new one but the biggest threat to the French is the HE alpha from cruisers. Not being seen is a huge boon.

With how I do my "u-turns"

  • Push within concealment range
  • Fire
  • Wait til enemy shoots
  • Full stop, full turn
    • Have main guns turn opposite direction
    • Have Secondaries Focus on target
  • Let secondaries rain hell
  • Keep turning
  • Fire
  • Repeat

Or something like that. Another reason is because Richelieu has the speed+speed boost to runaway if she were to be 1v3 against CAs. I had one battle happen like that and while I was able to get away, the 3 CAs were right at the edge and close enough to see me while my Secondaries could not shoot.

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1 minute ago, Vangm94 said:

With how I do my "u-turns"

  • Push within concealment range
  • Fire
  • Wait til enemy shoots
  • Full stop, full turn
    • Have main guns turn opposite direction
    • Have Secondaries Focus on target
  • Let secondaries rain hell
  • Keep turning
  • Fire
  • Repeat

Or something like that. Another reason is because Richelieu has the speed+speed boost to runaway if she were to be 1v3 against CAs. I had one battle happen like that and while I was able to get away, the 3 CAs were right at the edge and close enough to see me while my Secondaries could not shoot.

She can certainly “whoop whoop whoop” out of there if things get to hot, although with some high tier cruiser gun ranges, concealment is the only way to stop the HE Rain. I’m looking at you Hindenburg.

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French BB's are kinda like German DD's. When both lines where introduced, they weren't terribly UP or OP, aside from one or two random stinkers (but every line has them). They arent overly gommicky or hard to play, but at the same time, they can be punished for poor play, unlike british or German BB's which are hard to punish for bad play.

 

33 minutes ago, 1Sherman said:

 

 

Any line of BBs that continues the trend of powerful HE and impenetrable citadels is not fun to play against, and the French do both.

What world are you living in. French BB's (high tier) are not immune to citadels. in fact the french T10 is damn near as easy to cit as Yamato, and I am not sure if they ever fixed the bug which allowed her to be easily citadeled by cruisers like Des moines from a distance. Plus they lack the British super heals, while having the all round 32 mm armor plating.

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any ship that don't rely 100% on gimmicks is balanced to me.

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My only issue with the Alsace and Republique secondaries is that they are too fragile, and it's only gonna get worse when the US CLs with their 152s come in full force. I believe the secondaries should get some form of buff to their survivability, maybe give them plating to deter 152 spam (27 normal, 35 for IFHE)? If WG won't do that, then why not give the French secondary mounts more HP, or even tweak their RNG damage modifier to mitigate damage from HE spam and let them last a little longer? These are secondaries, my suggestions are more for QoL.

Edited by admiral_noone

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So far, the French line has felt like a pretty non-gimmicky and decently balanced line.

While it is pretty much anecdotal, I've never really come across a French BB and gotten a subsequent feeling of dread at merely seeing it (the kind of dread that comes with seeing any of the not-Monarch RN BBs that just says "Well, this game is probably going to be really friggin' annoying). 

Edited by Rion12

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Well, one metric for line balance is possibly 'were they changed after release'.

As far as I'm aware the French BB's haven't needed adjusting so far, which is a pretty good sign. We're only 3 months out from release, but there doesn't seem  much call for change.

 

In comparison the German line was a bit over-tuned:

  • Konig had a 2.0 to 1.8 sigma nerf (not sure on the numbers)
  • Bismarck exchanged her German hydro for normal hydro
  • The secondary stats on the 150/105mm were significantly toned down

The British line was a bit over-tuned too:

  • Orion sigma nerf from 1.8 to 1.6(?)
  • Lion and Conqueror massive cool-down nerf on their repair party
  • Conqueror concealment nerf(?)

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2 hours ago, awiggin said:

You must have missed the Alsace threads :):Smile_teethhappy:

Ha yup. I often joke that the French BB line is the only one with two T10 BBs. 

But on the whole the OP is right. The French BB line is really great. From T6 on they are all fun to play. Each has its own playstyle, and their excellent secondaries mean that players push them up instead of camping.

I wish WG would realize that good secondaries encourage BB drivers to push up....

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I have to say, i think the FR BB line is pretty solid.  Plenty of solid ships, and a few perhaps too strong.  Overall though, i think they are good for the game.  I can't say the same for the RN tech tree BBs.  They were how not to do add a line to the game to make it better. After i finish getting the Yammy, they will be the next BB line i work on.   maybe i will finish grinding the QE, as i actually enjoy that ship compared to the rest of the RN BB line. 

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