Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
viperah

Ships Disappearing

23 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

0
[WND]
Members
1 post
1,310 battles

can any one tell whats the deal on the red ships leaving the battle are and then reappearing in a different spot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
157
[VVV]
Members
391 posts
2,400 battles
10 minutes ago, viperah said:

can any one tell whats the deal on the red ships leaving the battle are and then reappearing in a different spot.

This is the detection mechanics. If a ship doesn't have line of sight on an enemy within a certain area, the ship goes unspotted and disappears until line of sight is reestablished.

More detail here: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Detection

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,634
[O_O]
Members
6,136 posts
14,126 battles

This is a normal game mechanic.  When you are new it may appear a little odd that a ship that appears to be a visible size can suddenly go invisible.  Some elements of realism have to be sacrificed for game play and balance.  AtlanticRim posted the link that will tell you most of what you need to know.  Once you get used to it and understand it, ships "suddenly going invisible" will no longer be much of an issue.

This is the place to go if you have any questions about how the game works!  Post up any future questions, or shoot me a PM...I'd be happy to answer any questions or point you in the direction of a complicated answer!

I hope you stick around to become a full-on WoWS addict...like me.  :cap_cool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,036
Members
4,729 posts
8,265 battles
1 minute ago, desmo_2 said:

This is a normal game mechanic.  When you are new it may appear a little odd that a ship that appears to be a visible size can suddenly go invisible.  Some elements of realism have to be sacrificed for game play and balance.  AtlanticRim posted the link that will tell you most of what you need to know.  Once you get used to it and understand it, ships "suddenly going invisible" will no longer be much of an issue.

This is the place to go if you have any questions about how the game works!  Post up any future questions, or shoot me a PM...I'd be happy to answer any questions or point you in the direction of a complicated answer!

I hope you stick around to become a full-on WoWS addict...like me.  :cap_cool:

Here I disagree. Realism?  Really?  Much of this viable/invisible  stuff is, IMO, pretty screwy. I absolutely mean that. Gimmicky! Ok I understand how it works and all. It's weird in my honest opinion. Hey, ok, I deal with it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,634
[O_O]
Members
6,136 posts
14,126 battles
5 minutes ago, dmckay said:

Here I disagree. Realism?  Really?  Much of this viable/invisible  stuff is, IMO, pretty screwy. I absolutely mean that. Gimmicky! Ok I understand how it works and all. It's weird in my honest opinion. Hey, ok, I deal with it. 

There are still elements of realism in the game.  This is not a simulator game, so MANY elements of realism have to be tossed aside in favor of a sub-20 minute game and balance.  That doesn't mean we can't have ANY realistic features, however...and some do exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30,514
[HINON]
Alpha Tester
23,087 posts
17,161 battles
17 minutes ago, dmckay said:

Here I disagree. Realism?  Really?  Much of this viable/invisible  stuff is, IMO, pretty screwy. I absolutely mean that. Gimmicky! Ok I understand how it works and all. It's weird in my honest opinion. Hey, ok, I deal with it. 

The maps are flat, the planet isn't. And at the ranges mimicked in this game, horizon is a thing. Or do you really think that you're going to be able to see a 100m long destroyer at 10km on a real ocean?

zWpsLR9.png

I've not done the math and am only including the picture (with exaggerated scale) to illustrate my point. I'm also sure that WG plays fast and loose with the distances involved and game balance and distance compression are thing in this game, but it's clear to me that WG is trying to mimic the horizon with their concealment mechanic.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4,219 posts
9,661 battles
20 minutes ago, desmo_2 said:

That doesn't mean we can't have ANY realistic features, however...and some do exist.

Actually they bend over backwards to make this as reality-derived as possible, which is still trumped by the need for a viable game.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30,514
[HINON]
Alpha Tester
23,087 posts
17,161 battles
14 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

Actually they bend over backwards to make this as reality-derived as possible, which is still trumped by the need for a viable game.

Well said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,036
Members
4,729 posts
8,265 battles
17 minutes ago, Lert said:

The maps are flat, the planet isn't. And at the ranges mimicked in this game, horizon is a thing. Or do you really think that you're going to be able to see a 100m long destroyer at 10km on a real ocean?

zWpsLR9.png

I've not done the math and am only including the picture (with exaggerated scale) to illustrate my point. I'm also sure that WG plays fast and loose with the distances involved and game balance and distance compression are thing in this game, but it's clear to me that WG is trying to mimic the horizon with their concealment mechanic.

Nice math! Designed by some freak to just confuse good honest hard working "mericans"!   Lert you are waaaaaay outta the loop. The planet IS flat! Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Newton, some others, were on DRUGS!  It's well known now by revisionist scientists and historians, and also them thar physics types. Huge cover up going on since the 16th century. The Pope was right! Yup. :Smile_honoring:  Burn em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,036
Members
4,729 posts
8,265 battles
23 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

Actually they bend over backwards to make this as reality-derived as possible, which is still trumped by the need for a viable game.

Good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
659
[13TH]
Members
4,898 posts
8,829 battles

It’s s multiple visible game mechanic effected by your indevidual ship range Detection, weather you fired your guns or AA fired ... smoke , Islands'... your spotted by an enemy and said enemy is sunk and no enemy is in your detection range .. same with planes, weather  .. it’s a complicated one and after a bit you’ll learn to take advantage of it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,036
Members
4,729 posts
8,265 battles
4 minutes ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

It’s s multiple visible game mechanic effected by your indevidual ship range Detection, weather you fired your guns or AA fired ... smoke , Islands'... your spotted by an enemy and said enemy is sunk and no enemy is in your detection range .. same with planes, weather  .. it’s a complicated one and after a bit you’ll learn to take advantage of it

O I know.  I know. Don't mean I have to like it. Carry on. 

 

I happy.  Winning like a wild man.  WHY?  Dunno. I am now accounting for the flat earth belief and it's working ok. :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by dmckay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
659
[13TH]
Members
4,898 posts
8,829 battles
53 minutes ago, dmckay said:

O I know.  I know. Don't mean I have to like it. Carry on

I would think that most would like less of it ... the game used to be much simpler ...in some ways I liked it better with less disappearing ships... but here I go carrying on again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1
[000]
Members
15 posts
3,543 battles
On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 11:46 PM, HMCS_Devilfish said:

It’s s multiple visible game mechanic effected by your indevidual ship range Detection, weather you fired your guns or AA fired ... smoke , Islands'... your spotted by an enemy and said enemy is sunk and no enemy is in your detection range .. same with planes, weather  .. it’s a complicated one and after a bit you’ll learn to take advantage of it

How can you play strategic game when ships that are well within range cannot be seen and other ships that are far beyond firing range or behind mountains are visible?  I do not see the reasoning behind ships that can disappear on the first volley of fire, or several to sit wait to catch an unaware ship in what is called "concentrated fire".  I feel that all ships that are on the grid should be visible.  The combat zone is not that big that one ship would disappear over the horizon.  I feel if a ship is visible when out of 16.2k of gun range all ships within that circle should be seen at all times.  How does a ship moving across the field just vanish only to reappear a few ship lengths later? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
659
[13TH]
Members
4,898 posts
8,829 battles
1 hour ago, wolfchild27 said:

How can you play strategic game when ships that are well within range cannot be seen and other ships that are far beyond firing range or behind mountains are visible?  I do not see the reasoning behind ships that can disappear on the first volley of fire, or several to sit wait to catch an unaware ship in what is called "concentrated fire".  I feel that all ships that are on the grid should be visible.  The combat zone is not that big that one ship would disappear over the horizon.  I feel if a ship is visible when out of 16.2k of gun range all ships within that circle should be seen at all times.  How does a ship moving across the field just vanish only to reappear a few ship lengths later? 

To balance ships you have Detection range , my X Yueyang DD has a Detection range fully decked out of 5.6 k if I’m at 5.7 you will not see me it’s 5.6 because I have deep water Torps so Torps are useless against other DDs so I’m at a disadvantage hence the low detection... 

thats just an example of one game Detection mechanic on one ship

some months ago they decided to make it so when you fire your guns your visable if not in smoke 

I’m  not at all happy with the disappearing ships and it seems now there is more of it than when I first started but that’s the way it is

one of the things you can do is make sure you know your ships Detection range, if your detected but you can’t see anything and no plane icon visable than most likely a DD is inside your detection range  and once your spotted the enemy can now see you , if you move outside your detection you will disappear.. one thing I also do at times if I’m not detected and see a target I’ll hold fire till I’m just about to go behind an Island Fire and then I’m safe from return fire

over time you can use it to your advantage 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1
[000]
Members
15 posts
3,543 battles
4 hours ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

To balance ships you have Detection range , my X Yueyang DD has a Detection range fully decked out of 5.6 k if I’m at 5.7 you will not see me it’s 5.6 because I have deep water Torps so Torps are useless against other DDs so I’m at a disadvantage hence the low detection... 

thats just an example of one game Detection mechanic on one ship

some months ago they decided to make it so when you fire your guns your visable if not in smoke 

I’m  not at all happy with the disappearing ships and it seems now there is more of it than when I first started but that’s the way it is

one of the things you can do is make sure you know your ships Detection range, if your detected but you can’t see anything and no plane icon visable than most likely a DD is inside your detection range  and once your spotted the enemy can now see you , if you move outside your detection you will disappear.. one thing I also do at times if I’m not detected and see a target I’ll hold fire till I’m just about to go behind an Island Fire and then I’m safe from return fire

over time you can use it to your advantage 

Do we as green ships disappear to the red ships once we cross the detection line, I have set all of my ships on my mini map to show the line that I am detectable.  If I stay  within that circle and don't fire my guns I will not be seen by some or most other ships for a while.  Thank You for your help, I generally don't like DD's but in you case I will make an exception. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
659
[13TH]
Members
4,898 posts
8,829 battles
2 hours ago, wolfchild27 said:

Do we as green ships disappear to the red ships once we cross the detection line, I have set all of my ships on my mini map to show the line that I am detectable.  If I stay  within that circle and don't fire my guns I will not be seen by some or most other ships for a while.  Thank You for your help, I generally don't like DD's but in you case I will make an exception. 

If your detection is let’s say 8k and your at 8.1 k from the enemy ship he can not see you till you ether fire your guns or you get closer than 8k... however if an enemy ship with a Detection of 7.5 moves in to 7.6 of you you will be detected but you will not see them till they move into there Detection range .. when you are detected all enemy ships can see you 

am more of a Cruiser player :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49
[_CIA_]
[_CIA_]
Members
366 posts
4,561 battles

Whatever is happening, or appearing to happen, with the opposite team is happening with you also in their opinion. Game mechanics? Heck if I know. I barely get by playing this game I like so much.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1
[000]
Members
15 posts
3,543 battles

A DD at 10km out in the ocean can not just appear in front of you and having launched torpedoes while firing on your ship.  At 10k he would be out of range of most larger ships but not the other way round. If that DD would have launch his torps from concealment in the terrain I would say well done and congrats for a well planed attack.

I had a DD appear from thin air so close to me that I could not see the entire ship in the binoculars or have time too have my guns to focus aim.  Was hit several times with gun fire and sunk with torpedoes that were on the way before he even was visible.          WHAT IS REALISTIC ABOUT THIS SENARIO??????

How do you keep you stats up with this type of game play?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
88
[S0L0]
Members
300 posts
7,440 battles
18 minutes ago, wolfchild27 said:

A DD at 10km out in the ocean can not just appear in front of you and having launched torpedoes while firing on your ship.  At 10k he would be out of range of most larger ships but not the other way round. If that DD would have launch his torps from concealment in the terrain I would say well done and congrats for a well planed attack.

I had a DD appear from thin air so close to me that I could not see the entire ship in the binoculars or have time too have my guns to focus aim.  Was hit several times with gun fire and sunk with torpedoes that were on the way before he even was visible.          WHAT IS REALISTIC ABOUT THIS SENARIO??????

How do you keep you stats up with this type of game play?

I put up with it, by not going into ambush zones if there are still undetected DDs around by myself. (also have the "last known position" markers checked in the minimap so you can get a general feeling where the DD might be trying to set up attack.)
If it's a 1-on-1, then hope you can find the DD (A lot of ships carry planes that spot DDs that are dangerously close. higher tiers CL/CAs (and some DDs and one BB) give up planes/smoke for radar as well), or just not going around islands. or other choke points while detected.

Also WASD works if the DD is detecting you in open water. (the DD will try to sink you via torps if it can torp out of the DDs detection range. Changing course randomly really reduce the chance that the DD will guess right.) It's just something that'll understand as you play more.

Also, try playing DDs, they work around a solid understanding of the detection mechanics. Especially at mid and high tiers.

I'm not great at explaining things, but you can always ask for help around :3

Edited by JB_24

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
265 posts
4,837 battles
On 6/7/2018 at 11:17 AM, wolfchild27 said:

How can you play strategic game when ships that are well within range cannot be seen and other ships that are far beyond firing range or behind mountains are visible?  I do not see the reasoning behind ships that can disappear on the first volley of fire, or several to sit wait to catch an unaware ship in what is called "concentrated fire".  I feel that all ships that are on the grid should be visible.  The combat zone is not that big that one ship would disappear over the horizon.  I feel if a ship is visible when out of 16.2k of gun range all ships within that circle should be seen at all times.  How does a ship moving across the field just vanish only to reappear a few ship lengths later? 

Please remember that WoWS displays ships at *four times their actual size* compared to the map. 

Larger enemy ships will be detected further away.

 

Watch some of Flambass' streams on YouTube.  I've learned lots of hints from his play style. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1 post
328 battles

The reasoning is good
but the disappearance of ships happens even at very little distance and even when you are a spectator
I have the impression that there is some trick.

Sometimes the destroyers are not really displayed and you find the torpedoes approaching so the distance must necessarily be little.

Edited by Mariano_Perna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33
[LF]
Members
194 posts

Given the example above by Devilfish, his DD can launch torps at 5.7km and then open up the distance. 5.7 is not much. Suddenly you have torps coming at you and you never saw any ship that would launch them. Thats why they suggest that if you have unaccounted enemy DDs (or just one), and you have been fighting in one direction for awhile, you might want to change course sharply. Did that just a couple days ago and, sure enough, a big spread of torps went by right where I would have been. DD was finally detected a minute or so later by another friendly ship but if it was just me, I might not have ever detected him.

I want a Kamakaze. Because I want to do the invisible torping. The detection is similar, probably less than 5.6 with concealment and camo, but it has killer torps. 7.0 range and 68 knot speed. So it can launch at 6 km range all day and never get spotted unless there are planes to do it. Doesn't even need smoke. No radar at its tier of play. (And thats why I can't get it ... too OP and not for sale anymore.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×