Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
Daniel_Sc

IFHE will be mandatory for the Light cruisers ?

20 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Beta Testers
375 posts
5,637 battles

That's right it is mandatory they will not let your ship out of port without it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,846
[WORX]
Members
9,076 posts
17,233 battles

I have my doubts that spending 4 pts on IFHE for a few extra DMG pts is worth it. The Cleve is a good fire starter ship I would focus on the fire chance then taking it out. Depends on your play style. If you ask me I would say no dont get IFHE, its MHO. Laters 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,665
[AXANR]
Members
3,530 posts
20,914 battles

 

31 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

I have my doubts that spending 4 pts on IFHE for a few extra DMG pts is worth it. The Cleve is a good fire starter ship I would focus on the fire chance then taking it out. Depends on your play style. If you ask me I would say no dont get IFHE, its MHO. Laters 

I mean, is it mandatory? No. Is it very, very worthwhile? Yes. You're giving up 2% of your fire chance for a significant increase in penetration damage. 

There are significant portions of BB and CA armor that you cannot pen with normal 152mm HE, leaving fires as your only method of dealing damage on those sections of the ship. What IFHE does is increase your penetration, opening up very large portions of BB and CA armor within Cleveland's MM spread to pen damage. 

The linked threads below are older threads, but note that the authors have done the math and concluded Chapeyev and Kutuzov benefit significantly from IFHE. With the same caliber guns at the same tier, Cleveland will benefit exactly as much as Chapeyev and Kutuzov do. 

Based on my experiences with other ships, I would guess that an IFHE Cleveland would do 33-50% more damage per game than a non-IFHE Cleveland, all other things being equal. (This is very much a guess, only played two games with Cleveland so far today, and haven't moved a high-level captain over to her, so I haven't tested this yet for myself. But its an educated guess based on running the numbers and on my experience playing Chapeyev with and without IFHE.)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
297 posts
2,405 battles
4 minutes ago, poeticmotion said:

 

I mean, is it mandatory? No. Is it very, very worthwhile? Yes. You're giving up 2% of your fire chance for a significant increase in penetration damage. 

There are significant portions of BB and CA armor that you cannot pen with normal 152mm HE, leaving fires as your only method of dealing damage on those sections of the ship. What IFHE does is increase your penetration, opening up very large portions of BB and CA armor within Cleveland's MM spread to pen damage. 

The linked threads below are older threads, but note that the authors have done the math and concluded Chapeyev and Kutuzov benefit significantly from IFHE. With the same caliber guns at the same tier, Cleveland will benefit exactly as much as Chapeyev and Kutuzov do. 

Based on my experiences with other ships, I would guess that an IFHE Cleveland would do 33-50% more damage per game than a non-IFHE Cleveland, all other things being equal. (This is very much a guess, only played two games with Cleveland so far today, and haven't moved a high-level captain over to her, so I haven't tested this yet for myself. But its an educated guess based on running the numbers and on my experience playing Chapeyev with and without IFHE.)

 

 

I'd agree that the IFHE CL build is a playstyle choice that's safe to recommend to the majority of players.  Great advice, and thanks for linking to those two threads! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,846
[WORX]
Members
9,076 posts
17,233 battles
11 minutes ago, poeticmotion said:

Based on my experiences with other ships, I would guess that an IFHE Cleveland would do 33-50% more damage per game than a non-IFHE Cleveland, all other things being equal. (This is very much a guess, only played two games with Cleveland so far today, and haven't moved a high-level captain over to her, so I haven't tested this yet for myself. But its an educated guess based on running the numbers and on my experience playing Chapeyev with and without IFHE.)

I understand the point, and no arguments from me. However, comparing the DMG values from a IFHE cleveland and a NON IFHE Cleveland. The only thing that changes is your DMG is coming from

  • fire (for a NON IFHE cleveland) or
  • HE penetration (IFHE Cleveland)when using solely HE.
  • Now with that in mind, the variable left is the potato lvl of the Cleveland driver. 

For me IFHE never worked for me in the ATL (which is the same play style as the Cleveland line). BUT must people swear by it that it works, now I am not saying I am a potato, but for my play style IFHE I don;t recommend it. GL and HF.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,665
[AXANR]
Members
3,530 posts
20,914 battles
1 minute ago, Navalpride33 said:

I understand the point, and no arguments from me. However, comparing the DMG values from a IFHE cleveland and a NON IFHE Cleveland. The only thing that changes is your DMG is coming from

  • fire (for a NON IFHE cleveland) or
  • HE penetration (IFHE Cleveland)when using solely HE.
  • Now with that in mind, the variable left is the potato lvl of the Cleveland driver. 

For me IFHE never worked for me in the ATL (which is the same play style as the Cleveland line). BUT must people swear by it that it works, now I am not saying I am a potato, but for my play style IFHE I don;t recommend it. GL and HF.

And certainly you should do what works for your playstyle. One reminder, though: fire damage is 100% repairable. Pen damage is not. YMMV. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
759
[HC]
Beta Testers
2,663 posts
12,121 battles

If you get fires set with HE, you can always switch to AP for better penetration and damage. IFHE is useless if you do this. So, it's all playstyle.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,846
[WORX]
Members
9,076 posts
17,233 battles
1 minute ago, poeticmotion said:

One reminder, though: fire damage is 100% repairable. Pen damage is not. YMMV. 

So true, but its best to blow the Damage control why save it you know.  Eventually he will bleed out and the process give me more of his HP, I know I hate DMG farming but you have a higher chance at setting fires and blowing his DC then getting HE pens or praying to RNGuses :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,846
[WORX]
Members
9,076 posts
17,233 battles
4 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

If you get fires set with HE, you can always switch to AP for better penetration and damage. IFHE is useless if you do this. So, it's all playstyle.

Plus 1 sir  that is why I don;t use IFHE...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
393
[_RNG_]
Members
787 posts
7,673 battles
2 hours ago, SgtBeltfed said:

If you get fires set with HE, you can always switch to AP for better penetration and damage. IFHE is useless if you do this. So, it's all playstyle.

The plot thickens.

Some pretty good arguments either way.

I'll stay tuned for players with much more knowledge than myself to hash out the relative merits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
251
[AAA]
Members
1,082 posts
11,915 battles

From playing the VMF cl line, IFHE makes them go from ok ships to battleship killers. Ok that’s is a bit much, but in the MK it’s 100% true. I rack up confederates and high calibers on the Russian line and t8-10 bbs eat 2-4K dmg per salvo going out at every 8 secs plus with DE and the right flags no lose of fire %. So I also get witherer and arsonist awards. I can not recommend IFHE enough. AP is not as effective at the ranges Cleveland will be fighting for most of the match. My vmf cl Captain has pt, ar, de, aft, ce, and IFHE. PM will probably be the last point. On Cleveland I’ll change ar for em. 

I love IFHE so much I run it on Belfast. It simply dominates t7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
128
[CNM88]
Members
548 posts
2,713 battles
3 hours ago, poeticmotion said:

 

I mean, is it mandatory? No. Is it very, very worthwhile? Yes. You're giving up 2% of your fire chance for a significant increase in penetration damage. 

There are significant portions of BB and CA armor that you cannot pen with normal 152mm HE, leaving fires as your only method of dealing damage on those sections of the ship. What IFHE does is increase your penetration, opening up very large portions of BB and CA armor within Cleveland's MM spread to pen damage. 

The linked threads below are older threads, but note that the authors have done the math and concluded Chapeyev and Kutuzov benefit significantly from IFHE. With the same caliber guns at the same tier, Cleveland will benefit exactly as much as Chapeyev and Kutuzov do. 

Based on my experiences with other ships, I would guess that an IFHE Cleveland would do 33-50% more damage per game than a non-IFHE Cleveland, all other things being equal. (This is very much a guess, only played two games with Cleveland so far today, and haven't moved a high-level captain over to her, so I haven't tested this yet for myself. But its an educated guess based on running the numbers and on my experience playing Chapeyev with and without IFHE.)

 

 

It’s around 50% damage increase if you aim for the superstructure with IFHE. You’ll still need to aim for the superstructure but that’s to have as many shells as possible hit the target and not shattering because steep angles or hitting the turrets. 

 

Also, a good deal of people including me believe that fire damage is trash damage since it doesn’t stick. One fire won’t kill you, two fires won’t if you try hard enough, but three and those fires are going out. That’s a lot of potential damage gone when you can deal just as much just by shooting.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
759
[LOU1]
Members
4,078 posts
11,293 battles
3 hours ago, SgtBeltfed said:

If you get fires set with HE, you can always switch to AP for better penetration and damage. IFHE is useless if you do this. So, it's all playstyle.

The benefit of HE penetration is that angling doesn't matter.  So you can get pen damage on heavily angled ships with IFHE, while starting fires at the same time.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,297
[WOLF3]
Members
24,807 posts
21,855 battles
4 hours ago, poeticmotion said:

 

I mean, is it mandatory? No. Is it very, very worthwhile? Yes. You're giving up 2% of your fire chance for a significant increase in penetration damage. 

There are significant portions of BB and CA armor that you cannot pen with normal 152mm HE, leaving fires as your only method of dealing damage on those sections of the ship. What IFHE does is increase your penetration, opening up very large portions of BB and CA armor within Cleveland's MM spread to pen damage. 

The linked threads below are older threads, but note that the authors have done the math and concluded Chapeyev and Kutuzov benefit significantly from IFHE. With the same caliber guns at the same tier, Cleveland will benefit exactly as much as Chapeyev and Kutuzov do. 

Based on my experiences with other ships, I would guess that an IFHE Cleveland would do 33-50% more damage per game than a non-IFHE Cleveland, all other things being equal. (This is very much a guess, only played two games with Cleveland so far today, and haven't moved a high-level captain over to her, so I haven't tested this yet for myself. But its an educated guess based on running the numbers and on my experience playing Chapeyev with and without IFHE.)

 

 

To kind of piggyback onto this:  Fires are RNG.  Even if you land hit, after hit, after hit, even with some ships with super high fire chances, RNG can flip you off and say, "You're only getting 2 fires this match.  Deal with it."

 

I have had my Henri IV with 26% fire chance get matches like that, 1-2 fires, despite many hits.  I've even had Conqueror give me such games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,526
Members
4,410 posts
17,771 battles
24 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

To kind of piggyback onto this:  Fires are RNG.  Even if you land hit, after hit, after hit, even with some ships with super high fire chances, RNG can flip you off and say, "You're only getting 2 fires this match.  Deal with it."

 

I have had my Henri IV with 26% fire chance get matches like that, 1-2 fires, despite many hits.  I've even had Conqueror give me such games.

Fire starting is at the mercy of RNG. IFHE damage is always there. ALL of my Cruisers that have 6" bore or smaller have IFHE on the captain. (I also have IFHE on Blyskawica's Captain)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4
[RAZE]
Alpha Tester
213 posts
5,974 battles

problem is u are not gonna pen much in bottom tiered game, so yea mandatory LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
458 posts
10,972 battles

IFHE on 152mm guns at T8+ is pretty mandatory...your shells will literally break up and do no damage to a large # of BBs and many CAs that you will face. Fires will not compensate for this at all.

While it great to say "switch" to AP, ...with 152mm AP at T8 you will also bounce most of those shots. 152mm AP will not do much to anyone who angles even a little towards it, even things like Meme-o-taurs struggle to pen when targets angle even a little....sure you can hope for Super structure pens..but low calibre AP at T8+ is going to be pretty weak unless its a perfect broadside.

Cleveland could get away with no IFHE at T6 due to the weaker armour of ships at those tiers..but even there you are cutting yourself off from your most reliable form of damage. 

Fires should always be a bonus not your primary form of damage as its very RNG based...If you are worried about loss of % fire chance from IFHE you can mitigate that with some flags.

I mean anyone is welcome to play however they want but you are cutting yourself off what should be your #1 source of damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
974
[CVA16]
Members
4,746 posts
14,467 battles
On 5/30/2018 at 10:22 PM, ExploratorOne said:

The benefit of HE penetration is that angling doesn't matter.  So you can get pen damage on heavily angled ships with IFHE, while starting fires at the same time.

This^^^ You can switch to AP but you get lots of bounces unless the target is near broadside. If the target is broadside, shoot AP by all means. IFHE means you can cause damage to a ship the rest of the time. Even if it is already burning. Especially at the higher tiers where angled DDs can bounce your AP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37
[_S_B_]
Members
477 posts
16,201 battles

Not sure about the Cleveland yet but IFHE made a big difference on my Belfast HE damage per salvo and I still start a good number of fires. I just use flags to boost the fire % and usually use both for a 2% boost. I think I'm going to use it with a 14pt Cleveland captain. I'll have at least one extra 14pt captain when I play my one game in the Tier 6 Pensacola for the 180-190K captain elite XP they give you. Then I'm selling her as I'm just tired of the ship. Too many bad battles around a few good battles. Keeping the New Orleans and looking forward to the new cruiser line.

I've been out of town for a few days so when I get home it's a hot shower, a cold beer and WOWS American cruiser night for me.:Smile_playing:

Edited by dust340man

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×